The ultimate challenge deity part II, Liz
- Thread starter Dirk1302
- Start date
Reading the earlier posts now, looks like I got lucky with the second game - I raced to get copper online and chopped out a couple axes. More for barbs, but must have been enough of a war deterrent until I got our creative friend to pleased. Have him close to friendly, and have lib at 800 AD. Now need to turn the tech advantage into a win somehow. Easier said than done with only 7 cities. Drafting redcoats?
shyuhe
Deity
michmbk, you should read the post by DanF about war declarations. Unless you pass a certain threshold (which is impossible in the BC years on deity), having an army does NOT deter the AI from declaring war on you. So apparently you just got very lucky with the dice 
Also, your "buddy" can declare war at pleased so be careful.
Also, your "buddy" can declare war at pleased so be careful.
Dirk1302
Deity
@michmbk, Shyuhe's right about that. Interesting to see how it goes, i was dead by 500 bc. Snaaty got through the early game unscathed by taking Col from oracle and won the game, he didn't have an easy time though. Even without early declaration the map's probably not easy.
michmbk, you should read the post by DanF about war declarations. Unless you pass a certain threshold (which is impossible in the BC years on deity), having an army does NOT deter the AI from declaring war on you. So apparently you just got very lucky with the dice
Also, your "buddy" can declare war at pleased so be careful.
I figured I got lucky with the dice, and knew Gilgy is a pleased backstabber, but I was producing enough units that I figure I have a shot at defending up to where I stopped. Granted, I've heard horror stories about deity stacks, so I may not be prepared at all. I also gave into a tech demand, gifted him one of the gems, and have a fair trade bonus for not asking for much from philo. Getting him to friendly would sure help though. I played a bit longer to about 800 AD and hit lib first. We met Boudica so we had trading partners, that's helped, because she's a different religion and potentially a more appealing target for him.
Long way to go from here though. What I'm struggling with is how on earth to get my production high enough to deal with Gilgy. I may be able to get to rifling before he gets gunpowder. On lower levels, that'd mean draft/spies and blow him away, but with 7 cities (maybe can squeeze in an 8th), not sure how to get enough rifles to make any headway with him.
shyuhe
Deity
Globe draft is a fast way to make rifles. But if you're already finished teching rifles, it's a little late to set it up. If you're running cottages, rush buying may be an option. Otherwise, whip/draft them.
HR + shared religion is generally enough to push Gilgamesh to friendly. Also, the AI war declaration algorithm favors targets it shares land tiles with over overseas AI that it doesn't like.
HR + shared religion is generally enough to push Gilgamesh to friendly. Also, the AI war declaration algorithm favors targets it shares land tiles with over overseas AI that it doesn't like.
Ok - i just read through that entire thread, and downloaded the excel spreadsheet. The last thing I need is another excel spreadsheet to reference while playing civ, but wow - that is amazingly useful. It sounds like this game pretty much had a high probability of Gilgamesh deciding to kill the human early, so it's total luck to get through the early game. I was thinking about going to rep for the beakers, but now I'm not sure - if I get him to friendly through HR, shared religion and gifting resource, I might be better off trying to attack the other continent instead (even though that would involve galleons as well.
Wow - that is good stuff though. It's almost counterintuitive in some ways. Makes me think that on deity, other than for barb defense, there's no sense trying to get units built in the early game. Better to rely on diplo and good rolls of the dice until you can get some reasonably strong units built.
shyuhe
Deity
That pretty much sums it up. Building an early army as a deterrent on deity is pretty pointless. Diplo is your best weapon.
Gilgamesh is 90% at pleased, which isn't a horrible chance. You can probably push him to friendly just with fair trade, OB, shared religion, and continued trade. That would open up representation for you.
Yamps
Deity
3.19 has also corrected the closeness bug iirc, so chances should be somewhat better this time around.
Another failure, thanks mainly to espionage. Gilgamesh must have stolen about 5 techs from me. I was first to rifling, had my globe/food city set up, and drafted 30+ rifles. Thought they were going against longbows and maces...until, magically, the turn after I declare, Gilgy hits chemistry and grenadiers show up everywhere. Not to mention his stack was huge, and I didn't have siege. Spies & redcoats were enough to take a city, but then he brought another stack to take it back.
Trying to play this level is going to be frustrating...very frustrating. I can't seem to balance tech and production on this level. Teched really well this game, but no production. Trying to manage with 4-6 fewer cities than I'm used to is really frustrating. On to the next try.
Trying to play this level is going to be frustrating...very frustrating. I can't seem to balance tech and production on this level. Teched really well this game, but no production. Trying to manage with 4-6 fewer cities than I'm used to is really frustrating. On to the next try.
Yamps
Deity
There's the counterespionage mission and using spy sentries in cities to tackle that...but I find that's precisely one of the biggest problems with the level: stupid mistakes that happen all the time and cost a lot on Deity. At least that's my current problem with the level. For example, I have an ongoing game which I have a very good chance to win, but things could have been much easier without stupid mistakes. To mention a few: leaving an early border improvement unprotected for barbs to pillage, forgetting to whip a wonder, delaying wb exploration, delaying expansion when Astro is available, making wrong civic switches in the wrong time with huge diplo problems, etc, etc...Small mistakes accumulate a lot here, especially when you're still working out your strategies and thinking about other things. Hmm, I think I'll have to start playing it in shorter sessions...
DMOC
Mathematician
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 5,594
Just wondering, but did you check out the "BTS Guide for Higher Levels" by Snaaty? Snaaty provided a relatively easy deity game as Darius I. I shadowed that game which eased the transition from immortal to deity somewhat.
Dirk1302
Deity
@Mich, Deity is not an easy level to play Mich. According to Murky in this post
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8383842&postcount=36 and some further posts there you have to be fat, unhappy, unloved, and severely addicted to the game to have a chance. Also if you haven't set a profitable money bet on winning deity it's not worthwhile to try for it in the first place in his opinion.
I like your, TMIT's and Grashopa's attitude better. You all know enough about the game to make the step, most important is getting a feel for timing. You have probably read Snaaty's article "bts on higher levels". Someone said well the game is easy if you get a start like Snaaty there, it's not. I played Snaaty's start then and i couldn't get the level of research he had 375 AD (lib). I can do it now but there are lot of map dependent subtleties involved. Civ is not as difficult a game as chess or bridge is but to play it really well involves more than a (wide) set of macro standard rules. Besides having this feel for timing you need a clear plan stretching 1000 or more years ahead. Also while i don't think you have to go blind on micro i think you have to check cities and screens at least once in 3 turns, screens should really be checked every turn for trade opportunities unless you're sure there won't be any. Mistiming a whip on deity probably won't lose you the game, if you mistime several times it'll lessen your chance to win in the end. Deity play is very perfectionistic.
So good luck in your joined game, i will follow it with interest.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8383842&postcount=36 and some further posts there you have to be fat, unhappy, unloved, and severely addicted to the game to have a chance. Also if you haven't set a profitable money bet on winning deity it's not worthwhile to try for it in the first place in his opinion.
I like your, TMIT's and Grashopa's attitude better. You all know enough about the game to make the step, most important is getting a feel for timing. You have probably read Snaaty's article "bts on higher levels". Someone said well the game is easy if you get a start like Snaaty there, it's not. I played Snaaty's start then and i couldn't get the level of research he had 375 AD (lib). I can do it now but there are lot of map dependent subtleties involved. Civ is not as difficult a game as chess or bridge is but to play it really well involves more than a (wide) set of macro standard rules. Besides having this feel for timing you need a clear plan stretching 1000 or more years ahead. Also while i don't think you have to go blind on micro i think you have to check cities and screens at least once in 3 turns, screens should really be checked every turn for trade opportunities unless you're sure there won't be any. Mistiming a whip on deity probably won't lose you the game, if you mistime several times it'll lessen your chance to win in the end. Deity play is very perfectionistic.
So good luck in your joined game, i will follow it with interest.
Dirk - thanks. I fully believe I can make the step, but what I'm not sure of is whether I have the patience to micro enough to really enjoy it. I'm enjoying the challenge of the level now, and trying to get a feel for timing things, which is obviously going to bring about some colossal failures.
But I am notorious for neglecting micro in many games, and find that costs me. Experience with the game allows me to get away with that 100% of the time at emperor and below, and probably 80% at immortal. You can't get away with that at all on deity.
I think a few playalongs will really help me at least get the timing down. I was following some of your posted games with interest, and that spurred me to do the same.
DMOC - I've been reading a number of the higher level game guides, but don't think I looked at that one specifically. Thanks for the tip - I'll check that one out as well.
But I am notorious for neglecting micro in many games, and find that costs me. Experience with the game allows me to get away with that 100% of the time at emperor and below, and probably 80% at immortal. You can't get away with that at all on deity.
I think a few playalongs will really help me at least get the timing down. I was following some of your posted games with interest, and that spurred me to do the same.
DMOC - I've been reading a number of the higher level game guides, but don't think I looked at that one specifically. Thanks for the tip - I'll check that one out as well.
