The (US) Federal Government

I was born before Vietnam and I cant think of any "smart" wars in my lifetime... The one exception was the proxy war Carter started in Afghanistan and mostly we just supplied cash and weapons. The worst is the drug war, that has driven crime rates up just about everywhere
 
The thing is that conservatism, the theoretical definition of the word, may be primarily about preserving what is, and what is seen to be good. But in practice that has never been separated from authoritarian government, and non-governmental authoritarianism as well. For in order to preserve one must have the force to prevent unwanted change.

So you have a point that the modern political use of the word conservative is wonky. But they really are the proper heirs of earlier conservatives. So the word fits. The exact issues, and how they are approached, may change over time. It is not, and never has been, a 'preserve this one thing only' agenda. Outside of the Amish, that doesn't seem to exist anywhere.
Many conservatives used to be staunch proponents of freedom and liberty. They were vehemently opposed to any form of authoritarianism.

Right wing authoritarianism in the US grew in the 50s during the great Commie scare and the McCarthy witch hunt, and it didn't really become pervasive in this country until the Reagan years under the second great Commie scare. It has been said that Republicans of the 50s had basically the same attitudes and opinions as Democrats do today.

In The Age of Extremes, Eric Hobsbawm argued that the conflict between capitalism and communism determined the course of the twentieth century. This confrontation of socio-economic ideologies without doubt dominated European and global history, especially after 1945. But another, inter-related confrontation that determined the course of the century was authoritarianism versus democracy. The capitalism-communism conflict seems but a moment of history for people in their forties and younger. However, the danger of a rising authoritarian wave is as imminent in the twenty-first century as it was in the twentieth.

In most countries of Europe in the 1930s the contest between authoritarian and democratic visions of society dominated the political struggle. The exceptions were Italy where the fascists had already established an extreme version of authoritarian rule, and Britain where a rigid class structure gave stability to superficially democratic institutions. By the middle of the decade, capitalist authoritarian regimes were clearly on the rise in Germany and much of central and eastern Europe (e.g., Hungary and Poland), as well as Portugal, with Spain soon to join the anti-democratic camp.

Indeed, in very few of the industrialised countries in the late 1930s did democracy seem the stronger trend. Among the large countries only in the United States was there an unambiguous shift towards strengthening popular participation. Ironically enough it was during the presidency of patrician Franklin D Roosevelt that trade unions asserted themselves as a major political force (which would not survive much past mid-century).

Now, well into the twenty-first century it is even more difficult to find a major country with vigorous and democratic institutions, certainly not in the United States nor in Europe. In the United States the confrontation between a well-funded right wing Republican Party and the middle-of-the road Democrat Party dominates politics, one doctrinaire and aggressive, the other muddled and vascillating. The anti-democratic trend is demonstrated by passage of laws restricting the right to vote in Republican controlled states, linked to the racist xenophobia of the Tea Party. In the White House sits a Democrat apparently unconcerned by a massively intrusive national security complex.

The current authoritarian tide in European and the United States also comes from the business elites, but is in this case driven by the ideology of neoliberalism not fascism (see “Democracy against Neo-liberalism: Paradoxes, Limitations, Transcendence,” by Alfredo Saad Filho and Alison J Ayers, forthcoming in Critical Sociology). Neoliberalism pretentiously claims to be the guarantor of freedom – “free markets, free men” was the title of Milton Friedman's infamous London lecture to adoring businessmen in 1974. Reality is quite the contrary. The neoliberal inspired market deregulation over the last 30 years has been the destroyer of freedom. The most obvious mechanism by which this destruction occurs is the weakening of the power of trade unions and other popular organisations. Parallel to that weakening has been the rise and consolidation of the power of the financial capital to control the media, political debate and elections themselves.
 
Many conservatives used to be staunch proponents of freedom and liberty. They were vehemently opposed to any form of authoritarianism.

Right wing authoritarianism in the US grew in the 50s during the great Commie scare and the McCarthy witch hunt, and it didn't really become pervasive in this country until the Reagan years under the second great Commie scare. It has been said that Republicans of the 50s had basically the same attitudes and opinions as Democrats do today.

Conservatism was authoritarian long before that. Think slavery, Jim Crow, many other examples.
 
(the US has had many, many more less famous foreign adventures than those listed).

Most of them were portions of the Cold War, which I acknowledge are too numerous to mention.

I should have also mentioned the numerous 19th Century interventions in Central and South America (e.g. the support of the Panamanian rebels in their independence war from Columbia), and also the Filipino rebellion against US colonialism in the early 20th Century.

And of course, the galaxy of conflicts with native tribes.
 
Get out of here, Hitler!

Haha, I know you're joking, but I'm not nearly insane enough for that distinction, and I'm also (prior to manifesting that insanity in power) not as charismatically manipulative, instead tending to be a bit more abrasive than I'd like when I slip :p.

Many conservatives used to be staunch proponents of freedom and liberty. They were vehemently opposed to any form of authoritarianism.

Even the meaning of the party designations changed pretty dramatically from the 1800's to 1900's to today (you could make a case the meaning changed multiple times more recently). I'm a bit shaky on the details though since my AP US history stuff was in high school. That teacher was dishonest and hateful, but stuck around because she got results (we made it right up to the Clinton administration, and this was a late-90's class!). Good at teaching the material, but I dislike her all the same.

Right wing authoritarianism in the US grew in the 50s during the great Commie scare and the McCarthy witch hunt, and it didn't really become pervasive in this country until the Reagan years under the second great Commie scare. It has been said that Republicans of the 50s had basically the same attitudes and opinions as Democrats do today.

Right wing stuff has evolved to capture issues that didn't exist to nearly the same extent back then too, and has made things more rigid. Religion, gender identity, abortion were not as heavy emphasis points on party lines in the 1950s for obvious reasons, and the US track record with wars hadn't turned quite so sour just yet. The tension between USA and Russia was a legit existential threat to both too, even if the only reason was the risk of fear spirals resulting in actual nuke flinging (such as the famous case of the Russian operator getting a false alarm...how differently would history have gone if he made a different choice, and not for the better).

In order to pick up votes, candidates have conglomerate-added random garbage to their party lines. What I don't understand is why democrats and republicans don't pull more "betrayals" on specific issues. Lobbyists aren't so uniform, and I find it difficult to believe that a staunch right-wing voter would back a democrat over a republican that suddenly swung left on, say, domestic social issues and foreign policies while otherwise holding the republican party line, same for a democrat who could pocket different interest groups from usual and attempt to attract people with a more right-leaning economic policy sell or stance on energy. My suspicion is that either my perception on how voters would react is incorrect, or that these candidates have incentive structures such that winning isn't a huge priority, though I understand that primary filtering (and filtering before candidates even reach that point) plays a large role too.

Still, what's to stop a candidate reaching the largest stage from saying "on x issue, I read the following studies and have come to the conclusion that it is best for me to adjust my stance", conveniently shifting towards a moderate stance? If admitting one is wrong or changing stance based on soundly-backed criteria is political suicide, I'll take that as strong evidence that the whole thing is a farce.
 
Conservatism was authoritarian long before that. Think slavery, Jim Crow, many other examples.
Conservative Democrats who were far more authoritarian had largely different views than conservative Republicans until the Civil Rights movement. They actually despised each other to a great extent until they decided to join forces to create a new right-wing authoritarian America. Back then, a Republican couldn't get elected in the South due to repercussions from carpetbagging after the Civil War.

I'm sure you have heard of the Southern Strategy. That is when the Republican Party started becoming much more right wing and authoritarian than it was previously. That is when they joined forces with all the Southern racists who left the party due to civil rights and equal rights becoming planks of the Democratic Party. There was some Republicans before then who were authoritarian like Joseph McCarthy. But many of them held essentially the same sort of views that modern Democrats do.

That is also when the Republican Party completely transitioned from being federalists, as they were in the past, to become states rights advocates. They knew that their new Southern voters demanded it.The opposite occurred in the Democratic Party. Without all the Southern racism baggage and their new advocacy of human rights which wasn't even possible before, combined with the effect the Vietnam War had on many Americans, they could consolidate the more liberal and federalist Northern positions to make it a permanent part of their political platform. Conversely, the Korean War and the Vietnam War had the opposite effect on many conservatives. They really started believing all the domino theory nonsense and thought that the US and Western Europe were in grave peril from the Soviet menace.

It was Eisenhower who tried to warn America what was happening, not a Democrat. He knew that we were on a path to far greater right-wing authoritarianism due to the red scare being perpetuated by the military-industrial complex.

"God help this country when someone sits in this chair who doesn't know the military as well as I do." Dwight Eisenhower

And he was right. We were hoodwinked into giving up our democratic ideals for authoritarian "safety". And we have been doing so every since, as the country goes farther and farther to the right and becomes more and more authoritarian out of irrational fear.

In order to pick up votes, candidates have conglomerate-added random garbage to their party lines. What I don't understand is why democrats and republicans don't pull more "betrayals" on specific issues. Lobbyists aren't so uniform, and I find it difficult to believe that a staunch right-wing voter would back a democrat over a republican that suddenly swung left on, say, domestic social issues and foreign policies while otherwise holding the republican party line, same for a democrat who could pocket different interest groups from usual and attempt to attract people with a more right-leaning economic policy sell or stance on energy. My suspicion is that either my perception on how voters would react is incorrect, or that these candidates have incentive structures such that winning isn't a huge priority, though I understand that primary filtering (and filtering before candidates even reach that point) plays a large role too.
That is because it is primarily intended to attract independents instead of members of the other party. Usually, the only time there is a transition in voting from one party to the other is when there is a major event, such as Obama running for president. A number of white Democrats voted for McCain instead. Conversely some black Republicans did the opposite. And it is invariably the ones who are closest to the other party. I seriously doubt many liberal whites voted for McCain because Obama was white, and vice versa.

Otherwise, all the RINO talk is just scare tactics and rhetoric. Of course, they are still going to vote for the more conservative candidate, regardless if he has some principles which conflict with their silly loyalty oaths.

Still, what's to stop a candidate reaching the largest stage from saying "on x issue, I read the following studies and have come to the conclusion that it is best for me to adjust my stance", conveniently shifting towards a moderate stance? If admitting one is wrong or changing stance based on soundly-backed criteria is political suicide, I'll take that as strong evidence that the whole thing is a farce.
They all read the polls and adjust their rhetoric accordingly. At least the ones who want to win do.

Take Obama, for example. He was far more moderate and not nearly as authoritarian prior to running for reelection.

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I doubt there has ever been that great of a change in a president between terms.
 
Why do you believe TPC can correctly estimate politicians positions? They don't even publish their methodology.
 
Why do you believe TPC can correctly estimate politicians positions? They don't even publish their methodology.

They do have really cool four color charts though. I'm impressed.
 
You can spread the blame around Paul, without focusing on the right wing particularly. I know its popular after that idiot Bush with Iraq, but not really accurate imo. About the worst war ever made in the USA was started by JFK and after his murder it really went all in under Johnson, both democrats. A crazy conservative, Nixon, finally ended it after more years of death and destruction. Just to highlight the insanity of the whole thing Vietnam and the US are now cozying up in the face of a new aggressor, China. The Vietnam war was the worst in my opinion.

Everyone gets a vote, can't blame the Jews. Btw, maybe Saudi will ally with Israel someday to keep out the Iranians now that Bush handed Iraq to them.

Crazy crazy crazy, as is your blaming the conservative supporters of Israel for all the woes? Perhaps, don't want to call that one yet.

Another thing is the wars against the Indians were perpetrated by Europeans until Independence.
 
I have been talking to right-wing people on the internet. It is depressing as heck. Let me just get your opinions on this idea I am kicking around.

People say the Federal Government (or perhaps the Zionist Occupation Government) is the source of all the problems and oppression the average working American faces.

This is not true. The Federal Government makes you pay your taxes and conscripted your grandfather. Other than that it has little impact on most people's lives.

It is your homeowner's association that makes you cut your grass. It is you town that makes you park with your car pointing the right way. It is your county that supports those schools with all that there book-learning. It is your state that won't let you hunt deer from your back porch. The Federal Government hardly bothers the average person at all.

Am I in any way thinking clearly? These people have me quite upset.

After thinking about this for a long time, I am starting to think you have a point. Very few are interested in local politics. This might be because the news we get is nationwide and statewide, not local. Therefore, we know, in order: President, State Governor, State Senators, Congressman, State House Rep and Senator, Mayor, Council Member. Move the Mayor ahead of the Congressman for those living in large cities.

Recent experience with the HoA makes me consider either moving out or arranging to be put on the board.

EDIT: Speaking of home ownership - Who is it that records and recognizes title to the property?
 
After thinking about this for a long time, I am starting to think you have a point. Very few are interested in local politics. This might be because the news we get is nationwide and statewide, not local. Therefore, we know, in order: President, State Governor, State Senators, Congressman, State House Rep and Senator, Mayor, Council Member. Move the Mayor ahead of the Congressman for those living in large cities.

Recent experience with the HoA makes me consider either moving out or arranging to be put on the board.

EDIT: Speaking of home ownership - Who is it that records and recognizes title to the property?


The local government records local property ownership. That's so they can tax it.
 
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