The 'Western' World

[aronnax]

What is this? What are these collection of countries called?
I know the general term has always been 'Western' countries but I really dislike that term because Western denotes a geographic connotation and no matter where you live, those countries are never solely to your west.

European countries don't work because there's Canada, USA, Australia and New Zealand.

Although all these countries are different culturally, socially and politically, they share to a certain extent, a common historical, politico-cultural root and as such are always called the 'West' in all areas not coloured in blue.

So what should this be called? Is there already an existing term for it, if not, can we invent one?

Note, this thread isn't a thread on what constitutes as a 'Western' nation. We had those before. We all have some view of the 'western' world which at least includes the core USA, UK, France. This thread is what would be a better name for that vague collection of countries.

 

[Winner]

Annorax, you know very well that if there was a better term than "the West", somebody would have come up with it already. I am fine with the West so long as it is seen as a general term which most people understand even though nobody can define it precisely.

 

[Tee Kay]

White Christiandom.

 

[NiRv4n4]

The West world, the first world, the developed world, in descending order of accuracy. The other two don't fit so well because the map neglects countries like Japan and South Korea. But all of the blue countries have more in common with each other than any one has in common with East Asia; it is cultural/historical in nature.

 

[aronnax]

Annorax, you know very well that if there was a better term than "the West", somebody would have come up with it already. I am fine with the West so long as it is seen as a general term which most people understand even though nobody can define it precisely.

I though we use West because it's a leftover mentality of the Cold War and colonialism. We just stuck with it and didn't bother to change it still. Language is funny like that. Still, there should be a better term. Anglo-European World? Or is that too English?

The West world, the first world, the developed world, in descending order of accuracy. The other two don't fit so well because the map neglects countries like Japan and South Korea. But all of the blue countries have more in common with each other than any one has in common with East Asia; it is cultural/historical in nature.

Precisely so why 'the developed world' will not work. When we talk about 'western' influences we don't think of Japan, South Korea, Singapore, UAE and other non-European developed areas.

 

[Miles Teg]

White Christiandom.

This, more or less. If you'll forgive me going all bleeding heart liberal, it basically means "Europe, and all the places where almost everyone is of European descent because the natives got killed off"

 

[Dachs]

White Christiandom.

Russia?

 

[Miles Teg]

Russia?

Godless Commies don't count.

 

[Winner]

I though we use West because it's a leftover mentality of the Cold War and colonialism. We just stuck with it and didn't bother to change it still. Language is funny like that. Still, there should be a better term. Anglo-European World? Or is that too English?

It's just impossible - any term you can think of can be shot down just as easily as "the West".

Christendom - first, it used to denote Western Christendom, so Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, etc. should not be in it. Also, calling countries like Sweden, Czechia, or Estonia "Christian" is just absurd now.

The free world - other countries are free too, so why not them too?

Euro-American world - what about Australia?

European cultural sphere - What about Latin America?

First world - Japan, Korea?

etc. etc. etc.

It's futile, so let's just stick to "the West" and accept that it will cause some confusion at times.

 

[Leoreth]

What Miles said. The term basically refers to Europe + countries whose inhabitants are (still) made up by people of European descent, minus the Warsaw Pact states until 1989 at least. "The West" became more widespread because a) it courts American exceptionalism and b) it was handy during the Cold War.

In my opinion, the whole term should be abolished. The developed world is a much more meaningful category, for example.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

What's with Latin America ?
It's largely christian and speak an european language.

I though we use West because it's a leftover mentality of the Cold War and colonialism.

Maybe that's where the term originated, but nowadays the connotations are more cultural than political.

I've recently read "Why the West rules - for now" by Ian Morris and he uses a pretty wide but also precise definition: "The West" are cultures (or offshoots of cultures) which adopted farming techniques that originated in the fertile crescent. This includes the Arabs and Iranians. In his view the Caliphate and the Persian empires are historically part of the western world since they share a lot more with europe than with "the east" (alphabets and most importantly monotheism).

 

[Lillefix]

What Miles said. The term basically refers to Europe + countries whose inhabitants are (still) made up by people of European descent, minus the Warsaw Pact states until 1989 at least. "The West" became more widespread because a) it courts American exceptionalism and b) it was handy during the Cold War.

When it come to communism and warsaw pact, I would say there is the West and there is the West. It's just two different things with the same name. It's not like Poland changed cultural heritage when it became communist.

 

[Leoreth]

Yes. It's just that the political divide during the Cold War superimposed the cultural similarities regarding the perception of "the West". Things are slowly returning to normal now, but it's still no matter of course.

 

[Tee Kay]

What's with Latin America ?
It's largely christian and speak an european language.

Mongrel races don't count.

Manifest Destiny mode

 

[aronnax]

What's with Latin America ?
It's largely christian and speak an european language.

Do people from Mexico to Argentina consider themselves "Western" anyway?

I've recently read "Why the West rules - for now" by Ian Morris and he uses a pretty wide but also precise definition: "The West" are cultures (or offshoots of cultures) which adopted farming techniques that originated in the fertile crescent. This includes the Arabs and Iranians. In his view the Caliphate and the Persian empires are historically part of the western world since they share a lot more with europe than with "the east" (alphabets and most importantly monotheism).

That's is very wide. I don't think anyone thinks of Arabs and Iranians when you say "Western World"

@Winner - what about Anglo-European World?

 

[Winner]

@Winner - what about Anglo-European World?

Sounds like something only an Englishman would come up with. And then, he'd include India in it...

 

[Joecoolyo]

I don't really see all that's wrong with using a geographic term to describe an assortment of related countries.

The Chinese still call themselves the "Middle Kingdom", though I don't see a north and a south one to suggest it's in the center. Should we change that?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, they should finally accept that the Meridian runs through Greenwich and rename themselves Eastern Kingdom

 

[Tee Kay]

Personally I also think "The West" is a convenient shorthand for the group of countries in question.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The Chinese still call themselves the "Middle Kingdom", though I don't see a north and a south one to suggest it's in the center.

They have only started calling themselves that about a hundred years ago.
Before that, they were All under Heaven.