The Wheel of Time - C3C FULL mod

[alerum68]

That's the main reason why I don't want to have Shara in it. Robert Jordan *HAS NOT* fleshed out Shara, and the more you read the more you'll find out they're more like a mixture between Han Dynasty China and Persia. I would hate to make this mod, and make the Shara one way, and find out they are completely different. The only things we know about them have been heard second hand. *NO* one who isn't Shara can enter their lands, and no one who is can leave. We may add Shara as a scenerio once we know more about them, but right now Shara would be VERY difficult to get into the game, and limit contact to just the Aiel. As for The Isle of Madmen, me and CamJH have talked about it and feel that can be thrown in at any time, but as a much smaller island then it really is I'd expect. The only thing I could think of doing with it though is putting Barbs. What do you think CamJH?

 

[CamJH]

I've been back and forth on it many times (Shara & Land of Madmen)... so I've been kinda keeping two maps going at the same time, that way when we decide I won't be starting from scratch (again). Drawing them in, leaving them out, I could do either, so the real issue is how to work them into the gameplay. I'm fine with a Land of Madmen FULL of barbs, making it all but unsettleable... but then that begs the question of why have it. The real question lies with Shara. I may just let you guys duke it out and then I'll choose sides with the winner at the end.

tjedge I know your busy working on your own mod, but you know before it's all over we're gonna rope you in. Maybe even get you to plan out a Shara civ.

 

[tjedge1]

China and Persia? I was thinking more Arab and India, Persia maybe. That elephant trainer in those books didn't seem to be asian like to me. Oh well. I won't press on this any further after this post. My whole thing about it is I enjoy sailing around the world and I hate running into invisible walls or building cities next to the edge of maps. In other words if you cut Shara out you have to make a flat map. I'm not big on flat maps, but it's not my mod. If you want it then go ahead.

@CamJH:IF you finish the complete world with the land for Shara and Land of Madmen then I would love a copy of it, please.

I will add Shara as a civ to it myself. And "IF" Robert Jordan ever bothers to flesh out that nation, it can be redone easily. Change some units, government and a leaderhead and maybe some names and your done. I'm not going to hold my breath on that as he is getting very old and dragging out this story. The last book was rather dissappointing. Though that is because I thought it might be the last, or at least look like the one before last or something might actually happen in it.

As far as Land of Madmen, I don't think I ever said to do anything except fill it with barbs. It would be a personal challenge for me when I play the Sea Folk to conquer and settle it. Even the AI would attempt to do that. Would give the Sea Folk a chance to really develop. I've settled islands with near 30 barbs before and after several turns of fighting I actually covered it with cites. I assume there would be more than that on the Land of Madmen.

 

[CamJH]

OK, here'll be my plan of attack:
I'm going to put together a map of the Wheel of Time globe with everything in it. It's always easier to go back an delete things rather than trying to squeeze them in afterwards. Resizing wouldn't pose to big of a problem either, if we want to make Randland more equivalent to the size of Seanchan... just cutting/skewing the ratio a bit/then re-pasting it.

When I get the map done, I'll post it in the completed maps section in the forum so that way it's available to everyone. I may even throw a separate map of just Seanchan out there too. I was contemplating a scenario based just around Seanchan before I hopped onboard this new mod project. MAYBE even a smaller version of the wetlands, since I got several requests for such a thing when I posted my original giga map. I'm making sure to save all my artwork this time, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.

 

[CamJH]

I've clipped, resized, and realigned these two maps so they match up perfectly. My plan is to complete this map, and then resize it and paste it over the WoT global map. These maps are quite a bit more detailed than the global map, so it will enable me to be more precise. As an added bonus, the map of Shara that I've attatched has a glimpse of the Sea Folk Isles at the bottom (they may be tough to see, I shrunk the image to fit on this webpage... what I'm working with is much bigger) + it identifies the safe ports along the coast of Shara. Just in case any of you are interested.

I plan on using this same approach when it comes time to add the realm of Seanchan to the map.

 

[tjedge1]

Thanks, CamJH, I like it. I'll quit throwing tantrums and let the mod continue. What were we discussing before I rudely interrupted?

 

[alerum68]

Looks good Cam... we'll figure out something to do with it... one thing Tjedge, I'm not going to have a settler unit... cities are gained by conquest only.

 

[tjedge1]

That will be fine with me for the basic game. That also make Land of Madmen worthless. A shame, but that fits the books better really. Can you tell that isn't what I voted for? I won't complain about the settler issue. Although I may make a suggestion. What about making settlers available through a tech in one of the late eras? Call it Colonization. Just a suggestion.

 

[alerum68]

I suppose it could be possible Tjede, especially with cities like Salidar, and The Farm being formed... one question though.... how much would that feature be used? In many of my games I do very little settling of of cities beyond a certain point... unless I'm razeing/rebuilding a culture rich enemy city. I'm still working on The Age of Stone of the tech tree, so disccusion for this one can go on for quiet some time before I finish a late day tech... So... Convince me... would a settler feature really be used that late in the game? And if it was, would it become over powering?

 

[tjedge1]

I think it should come very late in the game. It might not be real important with preplaced cities already, but would give the chance for a civ or 2 to colonize the Land of Madmen. As well as it would make sense since Seanchan would take over cities but at the same time thousands of settlers would arrive with the army and they would spread out and settle the new lands. Who's to say they aren't starting new villages? How advanced do you plan to make the game? Like the Age of Legends advanced or just as advanced as the books? Seanchan is most likely to learn this first.

 

[alerum68]

I'm planning on adding the Age of Legends for sure, but that will have to take some time to just *THINK* of what techs, units, and wonders would go into that. Right now it'll be limited to just the Third Age.

 

[tjedge1]

Then I would add settlers to the very end of the 3rd age. If you decide to add them at all. That doesn't really matter much to me. Have you decided what the civs are going to be?

 

[CamJH]

What about having "Tarmon Gai'don" as the very last tech? Once you've got to that point, there's nothing left but to gird up your loins, and head off to battle.

 

[alerum68]

That's a great idea for both Tarmon Gai'don and the Settler option... You brought up a point with the Settlers Tjedge... and I figured out a way to add them. In the Last Days, before Tarmon Gai'don has come, people were being scattered about, cast to the winds, and without homes. If those people joined together, they could set up small communities, and in time those could become cities.... ie- Settler Unit/Refuge... They'll be expensive to build, probably 3-4 population, just to make sure someone doesn't try and make a settler factory.

Gonna be working on the mod a bit more today, mainly doing 'Pedia and unit work... I figured out how to completely rebuild the tech tree, and have no problem doing that, but I need tech ideas, as well as Units to assign to those Techs.

 

[tjedge1]

What I always found easiest for figuring out the tech tree is by first figuring out the unit lines and then city improvements, resources, worker jobs, other misc that need a tech like espionage and then wonders. After that I then figure out all the techs that will be needed for these and organize them into tech trees. I tried doing the tech tree in my own mod too early and ran into a wall. It's best to save the tree for last, but coming up with techs on the way through the other tasks makes it all that much easier when you get to the tech tree.

 

[alerum68]

Thanks for the advice Tjedge. I already ran into that problem when I tried to figure out the techs first. Current project is figuring out units for the different ethnic flavors... this is where I think Cam ran into problems... finding units to fill out the game without using to many stock units. Wish there was someone who *LOVED* making new units who was out there... *HINT HINT*

 

[CamJH]

That is definitely where I ran into problems... and why I posted the original request for units. I found a couple of really great ones here on the site, and people pointed me in directions of units that would at least somewhat match up... but I ultimately had to fill in most of the gaps with original Civ units (meaning that plenty were shared). Not so good. And that's why I ran out and picked up Poser5, so I could eventually fill in all the gaps myself... now, if only I could manage to set aside some time to learn the program.

On a completely different note... I've finally made some good headway with the map. I ran into quite a few setbacks (some simply b/c I was trying to be WAY to precise with the size scale we're working with), but now I've worked out all the glitches and am picking up speed. And provided no other holidays sneek up on me again, I should have it ready to go soon.

 

[tjedge1]

Have you checked out GIDustin's site? There's a link in my sig. One of the best units library's on the net. If you haven't looked there you should. He has over 600 units listed there with previews of each.

EDIT: Nice Cam. You got Poser. Not only can you do units you might be able to learn to do Leaders.

 

[alerum68]

I've been there Tjedge. He has alot of great units, but only a small few that will fit our purposes... to bad those Amazon women weren't dressed better... they'd make perfect Far Dais Mai.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

I look forward to the day this mod is finished. I have read all the books except for the newest (wish that had been the next book and not book # -1 )

I'm helping out with the StarTrek mod. But I'll be willing to put in my two cents worth.

One thing I saw in an eariler post was talk about the waygates. The airport idea is fine except that it would allow the trip to take place in one turn. The waygates shortened the trip but did not shorten it that quick. Another idea to be considered is the Stargate solution. In their mod they are using railroad to run around a flat map on impassable to wheeled unit terrain with spurs comming out connecting their stargate resource icons to each other. But that might not work with the WOT map. I guess I just talked myself into accepting the airport idea.

However, for your channeling pleasure, you could use the hacked Civ3Editor for C3C v1.22 It will allow you to put in the teleport/telepad abiltiy. Any unit with teleport ability can transport in one turn's time from anywhere to any unit or building with the telepad ability. It reinforces the idea that when channeling a gate, it is easier to make a gate to an area already known than to a new area. Downside is that you can't teleport to anything but a telepad, so there would be no teleporting to unknown areas.