The Wheel of Time - C3C FULL mod

[CamJH]

misread my own quote... how embarassing.

but still argues the same point to an extent, being that the soarer is still faster than the skimmer while the skimmer is a larger vessel (although not generally the case). i was just trying to make a case for maintaining the different ships instead of a general upgrade path since the ships have different abilities/attributes. thanks for pointing out my blunder though... i'll have to read more carefully next time. the question however still remains, upgrades -vs- maintaining the diversity?

the upgrade path was my orginal intention, but now i think i'd probably vote the opposite way to give the atha'an miere a more diversified navy. we'd have to make each ship recognizable statistic-wise and each worth the investment, but i think it'd be worth it... and imho truer to the source. but i may be alone on this.

 

[alerum68]

No you're right, and you know my feelings... if it's going to be realism or game play, go for realism. Like you said, going ot have to work it out... maybe have one with high attack, high def, one that's transport, and one that can bombard? Maybe the larger ones can Bombard since they house the Windfinders?

 

[tjedge1]

I agree with having them all come up in different places, but not to be upgrading to each other. I voted for gameplay, but this would be an interesting twist to see. Besides, they are an island civ and such would have a bigger variety of ships to make them more fun.

 

[Saturn6]

Sea Folk shoud have a big variety of ships. I agree with tj. I think that that would also not make them fun, but let them have a monopoly in the sea. They should be the biggest naval power I think. Is that true to the book and does anyone object?

 

[Tzar Sasha]

I think of the wetlanders the Seafolk should have the most powerful navy. However, the Seanchen were able to capture and/or sink many Seafolk ships so I think that they should have some ships which are better than the Seafolk. Not all of course as some Seafolk managed to escape.....

 

[CamJH]

Eventually the Seanchan will have to be able to develop an ocean-fairing ship that has the ability to transport large amounts of units (but not until later in the game imho). Of course we'll have to figure out a way to motivate them to make that journey too. In the books they bring settlers along with them, but I'm afraid if we gave them the ability to create settlers, they'd just use them to overun the continent they start on.

And yes, I think the Sea Folk should definitely have the most powerful (and diverse) navy. Only giving their vessels the ability to travel safely in ocean tiles earlier on in the game will definitely help. Other ships can't sink what is out of their reach.

Now for an ODD, off-topic question:
Is it possible to use landmark ocean terrain to make a sort of jet-stream? The reason I was thinking this, was trying to encourage ocean travel where we want it. Might prevent Seanchan & Sea Folk from wandering the ocean in search of land that isn't there. Just an idea. What'ya think?

 

[CamJH]

Just spent time in the editor and found out there is no LM Ocean terrain, so everyone can ignore my last question concerning it. Probably should have checked it out myself first before asking, but oh well.

 

[CamJH]

I've found a unit for Tarabon: Kinboat's Bushi (version without the flag)
The question then is, Where does it fit? King's Life Guard? Panarch's Legion?

here's a pic:

 

[tjedge1]

Regarding Navies. THe Seafolk had the best ships till they faced the Seanchan. They were still faster than the Seanchan ships and that's why they escaped the harbors sometimes, but the Seanchan ships were more dangerous with more firepower. The Seanchan best ship should be the strongest in the game, but it should also be the slowest. I believe A wetlander almost outran them, but they start boiling the water around his ship. That might have been The Great Hunt. Haven't read that one in over 3 years.

As far as the unit above. I'm not sure either, because I can't remember what the difference was. It's been a while since Tarabon was still it's own.

 

[Noldodan]

About the Tarabon unit, there's at least two problems. Straw hats like the one he has on are very popular in Tear, in Tarabon they wear fezes (a cone with the top chopped off and a tassel), and the platform shoes are also from Tear, so it would make a good Tairen soldier. And about Sea Folk ships: they are the fastest ships around, and the raker is the fastest (and largest) of them. But I don't think they should be very powerful unless we assume that they all have channeling Windfinders on them (remember, not all Windfinders can channel). And I guess I would be a good sounding board for realism (concerning the books) since I'm currently reading them for the 3rd time in as many years.

 

[tjedge1]

Good call Noldodan. Sounds pretty correct as far as I can remember. Maybe Tarabon should have more Syrian type units. Aren't those the ones with the tall caps or are those too squared. If they were even Syrian.

Noldodan, have you read the "The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time?" It's an excellent piece that fleshes out some of the more obscure places and individuals in the series.

 

[Noldodan]

I seem to recall fezes being more Northwest African, but I'm not very sure about that. No, I haven't read the Big White Book, but I did page through it once, and discovered that aside from a little information on the history of Seancha, Shara, Artur Hawkwing, the Age of Legends, and the White Tower, there wasn't anything you can't get from reading the books. So it would be great for the Civilopedia entries, but probably not for much more. But it would be great if someone proved me wrong and found something really useful there!

PS: This is a really great resource for WOT stuff. Section 3, Sources of Knowledge, would help the mod the most though.

 

[CamJH]

The platform shoes made me think of Tear as well, but since I was in Tarabon-mode while searching through the forums I just overlooked them. So ok, it'll work as a Tairen unit.

Now what to call them? Suggestions? Since Tear is ruled by High Lords, maybe we could call them Lord's Defender, or Lord's Soldier. Or are those just plain stupid?

 

[CamJH]

here's a little clip to from "The World...." backing up Tairen fashion:

"Regular soldiers are uniformed with brilliant red coats with wide sleeves ending in narrow white cuffs. A gleaming breastplate is worn over the coat so as to let the sleeves show clearly. Their breeches are of the same tight cut as that of the lords, though not quite so brightly colored, and are worn tucked into knee-high boots. Defenders of the Stone wear black and gold coats with puffy sleeves as well as plumes of various colors on their rimmed round helmets to mark officers and under-officers. The soldiers of a particular lord wear that lord's colors on their puffy sleeves.

In contrast, common men wear baggy breeches, usually tied at the ankle and held up by a broad colored sash. Some few wear coats, but unlike the lord's, theirs are long and dark, fitting tightly to the wearer's arms and chest, then becoming wider below the waist. Sometimes low shoes or boots are worn, but more often bare feet or clogs are preferred for traversing the mud of the poorer quarters. Most common men wear cloth caps that hang to one side of their face, or wide conical straw hats to keep out the sun...

Anyone, regardless of class, who wishes to walk through the outer city must go barefoot or wear a special shoe called a "clog," which is actually a small wooden platform that fastens to the soles of the wearer's existing shoes to lift them clear of the mud. Bamboo staffs are also favored by many to help in the difficult process of traversing Tairen streets."

 

[CamJH]

I think it makes the Swiss Mercenary sound like an ideal unit for Defenders of the Stone.

 

[CamJH]

OK, I'm adding the Bushi unit to the list as "Tairen Defender" unless someone suggests otherwise.

 

[Killer_Klein]

Hey

I haven't had a chance to read over everything in here yet, so if this idea has been mentioned then please ignore me. Thanks.

I was thinking if you place the cities then in the cities there should be wonders that make a specific unit. This would represent how after the Seanchan conquered they incorporated the Tarbonars and others into their army. And how when Rand took over Tear, Illian etc... he used their armies.

This way when you conquer a city like every five turns or whatever you get a particular unit.

The exceptions would be Tar Valon, the Black Tower and the Aiel.

 

[CamJH]

If units could require buildings much like they do with resources (i.e.: swordsman & iron) that would be awesome. Looking at the editor though, I'm not sure that's at all possible. But as far as buildings creating units every so many turns... that might get a little strange (and complicated) if every nation had one. I do like the idea though about keeping the units of that nation available to the conquering nation.

Another possibility would be associating units with resources and then placing those resources underneath the city on the map. There's tons of resources and luxuries to go around for each nation, and adding more isn't that difficult. It would also be possible for that nation to loan out soldiers to other nations in a way by trading that resource if they so choose (and we could limit those possibilities by only allowing certain nations the ability to create them with that resource). We would have to be careful though and make sure that any resource like that wouldn't pop up anywhere else on the map.

Just trying to build off of your idea a little. Thoughts (everyone)?

 

[Tzar Sasha]

If units could require buildings much like they do with resources (i.e.: swordsman & iron) that would be awesome. Looking at the editor though, I'm not sure that's at all possible. But as far as buildings creating units every so many turns... that might get a little strange (and complicated) if every nation had one. I do like the idea though about keeping the units of that nation available to the conquering nation.

No a unit cannot have a required building, however they can require the tech that the building requires.

Any building in C3C can produce a unit every x number of turns. It would actually be fairly easy to keep track of the buildings and the units they produced. Example: Each civ has their own special barracks i.e. Illian Barracks, Tear Barracks, Andor Barracks, etc... That building will produce every x turns a unique unit (not the unique unit) for the respective civ. When that city is captured if the civ specific barracks is still standing then it will continue to produce units for the new civ.

You can still have the unit require certain resources and more shields in order to build from a standard barracks, but the special barracks would produce them whether or not the resources were there (at least I haven't seen anything to the contrary yet. Something to investigate and test with...)

Something that was put into the Star Trek mod which might be useful was a building available to all that produced a settler every x turns. It's the only way to get a settler. It represents the fact that most settlers are pilgrims from the home city. You wouldn't want Whitebridge or the Two Rivers to be putting out all the settlers instead of Caemyln (sp?) for the nation of Andor. Would you?

 

[CamJH]

I know we could alter the buildings to create units like that (I've played around with them for other personal scenarios I've done with C3C), but I'm more a fan of the player building units instead of buildings. Plus I really think it might effect the balance of gameplay.

But... the way to get around having them destroyed would be to make them wonders instead of improvements. If a "unique barracks" was built only as an improvement, it would either be destroyed in the capture of the city or it'd be converted into the conquering nations type of barracks (which would cancel out gaining the original nation's unit).