The yields are fine (screenshots)

[Bibor]

There's been too much whine about yields in CIV5, so I decided to stop this nonsense and present actual screenshots.

They've been taken in the Renaissance era. There are only two maritime states on my continent and I worked hard to get them both (went to two wars and donated over half a dozen crack troops to keep Ragusa alive: both Rammeses and Zeitan declared "permanent war" on it).

Orleans

A 11-size city, with very few but lucrative "workable" tiles. Production +22, Gold +22.5, Science +33. Can and will finish Taj Mahal in 20 turns (28 turns initially), without marble.

Spoiler :

Lyon

A 14-size city which I had to make 12 hexes away from my capital to claim that single 2-yield iron (and got 2 silver too ). I spent around 400 gold to claim those two fish and the hill. GW was conquered from Babylon. Production +14, Gold +25, Science +27. Can and will finish a seaport in 10 turns, increasing its production to +18.

Spoiler :

Paris

My 12-size capital. Spent 3 turns moving after I saw the extra gems with my warrior. Paid around 200 gold to claim that silver. Production +30, Gold +51, Science +31.5. Will finish Forbidden Palace (600 hammers) in 15 turns. Note that the Silver and the Gems were my only happy resources for a long time. I actually had to pay a lump sum once to get Gold as my third.

Spoiler :

Just to note, I had more powerful production cities with Catherine (3 iron and a horse with Siberian Riches) as well as with China (25+ pop cities).

 

[Shafi-is-back]

i agree. The major difference everyone is feeling is that there are no 5 food or 6 food tiles in the early game like we are used to from civ IV.

But as you go along, tile yields are fine.

I built production city with 100 production at the end of the game. (Modern era) built the utopia project in just 13 or so turns.

I find sheep to be a very useful resource, they usually appear on hills, and once you improve the resource, you get 2 hammers from a tile that feeds itself.

 

[Slowpoke]

mass deforestation in the beginning is also nerfed. I think that's the big thing.

 

[Ahriman]

Orleans

Your city has 7 "bonus" resources of some type, and 2 rivers, and its gold output is non-pathetic only because of riverside gems and a natural wonder (and a market).

Hardly representative.

Similarly, Lyon is decent only because of two silver resources + mint.

And Paris has 4 gems tiles.

I don't have a particular problem with yields, but these cities are massively unrepresentative. Silver/gold/gems have much higher gold yields than other resources, and you have some very atypically winding rivers there so that nearly every tile is riverside.

Otherwise, without TPs, your gold yields would be very low.

 

[Celevin]

You mention tile yields, build times, and poke fun at people calling them whiners, but then give no mention of game speed. I don't think you know exactly what the problem is.

 

[Bibor]

You mention tile yields, build times, and poke fun at people calling them whiners, but then give no mention of game speed. I don't think you know exactly what the problem is.

Game speed is irrelevant (this is on normal). Don't underestimate me, I played CIV4 on monarch for quite some time, so I know what the problem is: resource bonus yields are lower, so you can't feed a 4-pop city with a single riverside corn for 15 per turn.

Your city has 7 "bonus" resources of some type, and 2 rivers, and its gold output is non-pathetic only because of riverside gems and a natural wonder (and a market).

Why would anyone not put his second city into a 7 "bonus" resources area? I moved my settler quite a lot to get there in the first place. I placed it basically on top of Thebes, ignoring the sugar on the way and claiming yet-another gem instead. The natural wonder I purchased for 230 gold (1/3rd of my budget at turn 40) otherwise it would've gone to the city state. Yes, that's also new in CIV5: sometimes you have to invest more into a city then to build a settler and plant it. I think it's very representative.

I don't have a particular problem with yields, but these cities are massively unrepresentative. Silver/gold/gems have much higher gold yields than other resources, and you have some very atypically winding rivers there so that nearly every tile is riverside.

These cities are in fact very representative. Yes, I got rivers that I can plant 3 cities on. What about the rest of the land? Within my mountain range I have theoretical room for 5 cities, of which 1 would've been a complete waste (so I never built it) one that needs lots of tile buying (the coastal pearls with two fish in third ring) and two that need 500 gold tile buying to grab a natural wonder and a second happy resource. The rest of the continent is blocked by Rammeses and Nabucco and I had NO iron and ONE horses resource within my territory (oh and no oil, later turns out).

My point being, in CIV5, your capital may not be in a perfect spot. But your second and third city should be carefully hand-picked, with lots of resources, even if you have to go quite some distance. Which is exactly what I did. And what the AI does as well, by the way.

 

[aimlessgun]

These cities are in fact very representative.

In his experience, he feels like you just generated a very lucky map in general.

I'm only on my third game so I can't be sure, but they do look like atypically good cities to be available. Obviously you'd found them in the best places possible, but those are above and beyond "best spot" standards for the maps I've generated.

 

[PericlesOfAthen]

I agree with Bibor. Yes, the yields are somewhat reduced but I don't think it's that big a deal. It's helped balance the game more so that large empires don't dominate so much or so easily as in Civ IV.

 

[pi-r8]

so how long will it take you to build a factory, or a public school, or a stock exchange? I can pretty much get to the end of the tech tree before I have time to build those, especially if I'm building units also.

 

[Celevin]

Game speed is irrelevant (this is on normal). Don't underestimate me, I played CIV4 on monarch for quite some time, so I know what the problem is: resource bonus yields are lower, so you can't feed a 4-pop city with a single riverside corn for 15 per turn.

It is completely relevant. You mentioned how many turns it takes you to build buildings/units.

And the difficulty you played in Civ4 is completely irrelevant. It's about how good your argument is. How would you like it if I said I played on Immortal/Deity, so you should listen to me when I say that tile yields are low?

 

[Willowmound]

so how long will it take you to build a factory, or a public school, or a stock exchange? I can pretty much get to the end of the tech tree before I have time to build those, especially if I'm building units also.

Don't build units in your science city and don't build science improvements in your production cities.

 

[pi-r8]

Don't build units in your science city and don't build science improvements in your production cities.

It doesn't really work this way in civ V since every pop point produce science and gold. But anyway, even if you have a city that only builds gold improvements, if it's covered with TPs it'll take at least 40 turns to build a stock exchange, and by then the game will be over. Likewise, if it takes 20 turns to build a factory, you'll need about 40 more turns to break even on that investment, and by then the game is basically over.

 

[Willowmound]

Well it's not a problem for me.

 

[King Jason]

Cities can work something like 38 tiles.

Cities barely ever get into the 20s of population by the time you've reached a winning position in the game.

So ~ Overlap.

Obviously this can't be done in all circumstances, but my huge production cities almost always share a border with some other cities. Swap the tiles out while you need to produce the buildings you need. With a radius of 3 hexes, it's so easy to make your cities share some key features such as a range of hills, or a lucrative river.

Sure, not all of your cities may have the modifying buildings in them, but the loss of output in the respective areas is marginal.

Another way to increase output, albeit at a great loss: Maritime city-states. They allow you to run food deficits in your cities which means you can work those nearby hills in your gold/science cities.. or in worst case scenario, turn unemploy all your citizens for the production you need (I've done this to great effect).

Also, gold solves this problem too, in the late game I can usually buy what I need in most cities faster than I can build it.


Lastly, with such shorter growth and pop limits (the teens being high for civ5, as opposed to the 20s being high in civ4), it's logical to assume that your cities should mostly be working resource or river tiles. Basically, I'd say you should be working anything that gives you a yield greater than 4. Certainly never settling for less than 4 until all other tiles are worked. Unless, naturally, the city is specialized and you're focusing on a specific yield type.

 

[pi-r8]

Cities can work something like 38 tiles.

Cities barely ever get into the 20s of population by the time you've reached a winning position in the game.

So ~ Overlap.

I usually shoot for cities of about ~10 population. After that the growth slows way down, so I feel like it's more efficient to just start a new city. Plus, the returns are better for the basic buildings than for the more advanced ones, so I'd rather have a lot of basic buildings than a few advanced ones.

 

[Nefelia]

It doesn't really work this way in civ V since every pop point produce science and gold. But anyway, even if you have a city that only builds gold improvements, if it's covered with TPs it'll take at least 40 turns to build a stock exchange, and by then the game will be over. Likewise, if it takes 20 turns to build a factory, you'll need about 40 more turns to break even on that investment, and by then the game is basically over.

Buildings like the factory should only be built in cities that already have good production. If the factory takes too long, you probably shouldn't be building it in the first place.

Also, with the maintenance costs for buildings, I find myself not minding the long wait between builds. If I absolutely want the buildings quickly (ie, monument and temple for new cities), I will simply buy them while the city focuses on building the buildings I won't need right away.

 

[Uncle_Joe]

I think the tile yields are fine too. It's just a completely different pacing than Civ4, that's all. The margin of return for upgrading the tiles is still quite good.

 

[Zhahz]

I also agree.

I was using a personal improvements mod that had some very minor tweaks for a while but stopped because it really isn't necessary once you learn how to play the game (IMO). This isn't Civ IV, you have to decide and make things happen, you aren't just handed oodles of everything to start.

 

[Lord Chambers]

Is this General Discussion? You're responding to a complaint in Strategy and Tips.

 

[Cu Chulainn]

These cities are in fact very representative. Yes, I got rivers that I can plant 3 cities on.

Your Capital has four gems and a silver with a huge river. That's an outlier. I agree that the other two are fairly typical, but that capital is one of the luckiest starts I've seen so far. Even having to move to get it, you don't typically have that much awesome in sight of your starting position. Don't act like you get that every game.