thecrazyscotsman's Omnibus 1.2.3

[bladex]

but he recommends using AI+

that doesn't fix it either

 

[thecrazyscot]

I'm working on a revamped Tech Tree for the Complete ruleset. I'm looking for some feedback!

My general approach:
-remove dead-end techs (this should help the AI just a bit)
-require total era completion before moving on to another era (this is more relaxed with earlier eras and becomes more stringent in later eras), this should have the added effect of preventing serious beelining

I have not yet adjusted Unit, Resource, Building, or Improvement prereq techs, I wanted to get some feedback on the general tech tree layout first. Suggestions for all those are welcome!

Spoiler :

 

[Littlebob86]

I'd be against having to research everything to move ahead.. But having more streamlined trees would be awesome.. I thought civ 5 was quite good.. You could semi bee line, but were making a small sacrifice otherwise.. Obviously that's different now with the split trees.. But I dunno, I like to be able to specialise.

Also if you were playing pangaea and in the middle, role playing wise, it doesn't make sense you'd be advanced with sailing..

Esspecially with the longer tech times

 

[thecrazyscot]

Hmm, what about if you were able to beeline an era ahead, but you could only ever beeline 1 era ahead? Dunno if I could work out all the prereqs to make it work, but what do you think of the idea?

Also, is anyone else finding themselves going through the Civics tree faster than the Tech tree now? It's interesting, the total science cost for the entire Tech tree is 51,045 science, while the total culture cost for the entire Civics tree is 38,940 culture. If you have equivalent yields, you'll complete the Civics tree much more quickly.

I'm thinking a Civics tree overhaul will be necessary simultaneously with a Tech tree overhaul to keep things balanced.

 

[Brutha2]

One thing I would say first is that Archery would be better at the same time/prerequisite of bronze working, doesn't sit too right with it after Bronze working.

An option would be to introduce an extra tech before the industrial revolution, perhaps add a new tech to replace Industrialisation (with factory etc) and make Industrialisation the gateway tech to the modern era; or do something similar to in the civics tree where there's only two techs to get there (no idea what names to use though), as opposed to having 4 tech options to enter the industrial era. Perhaps one of these techs could be railroad, as it bothers me that researching ballistics gives my mines railroads.

Definitely agree civics is easier to complete, especially when I played as Greece. You could reduce the culture from great works, reduce the culture from monuments to 1 (and cut the production cost too) while also reducing the culture cost for tiles.

 

[Magil]

Also, is anyone else finding themselves going through the Civics tree faster than the Tech tree now? It's interesting, the total science cost for the entire Tech tree is 51,045 science, while the total culture cost for the entire Civics tree is 38,940 culture. If you have equivalent yields, you'll complete the Civics tree much more quickly.

I'm thinking a Civics tree overhaul will be necessary simultaneously with a Tech tree overhaul to keep things balanced.

I was noticing this, though I was playing with your mods as well as my own (as well as a few others) so I wasn't sure if I should bring it up (as I can't know for sure which mods were affecting it to what degree). So it's good to know it's not just me!

It may at least partially have to do with the improved tile yields of luxuries with Theater Squares, which can provide rather large amounts of culture from many different resource tiles. Comparatively, the Campus district barely affects resources, unless you get lucky and have a Mercury-heavy start. I usually play with Abundant resources so it's especially noticeable on my end. Having a few 4 culture per turn Coffee tiles is pretty huge when your total culture output is otherwise around 20-30 per turn.

Edit: I suspect it might be a different story if your regional luxury happens to be Mercury and you build Campuses in accordance with that!

 

[Sebolus]

Installation Instructions
Unzip the files into your Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization VI\Mods directory

I have followed this instruction, but the game does not "see" it at all...
I have also installed YnAMP and it works.
Do you have such issue?

 

[notque]

Hmm, what about if you were able to beeline an era ahead, but you could only ever beeline 1 era ahead? Dunno if I could work out all the prereqs to make it work, but what do you think of the idea?

Also, is anyone else finding themselves going through the Civics tree faster than the Tech tree now? It's interesting, the total science cost for the entire Tech tree is 51,045 science, while the total culture cost for the entire Civics tree is 38,940 culture. If you have equivalent yields, you'll complete the Civics tree much more quickly.

I'm thinking a Civics tree overhaul will be necessary simultaneously with a Tech tree overhaul to keep things balanced.

Given that, i wonder why the base game is .7 science, .3 culture per pop, instead of .6 and .4

 

[thecrazyscot]

Alright, I grew frustrated with the vanilla tech tree and its dinky two-column eras and came up with the alpha test version below.

I've added 15 new techs to flesh out some of the eras more. Obviously I haven't set any Unit/Building/etc prereqs yet.

Beelining is still permitted in this version UNTIL you get to the Industrial Era. In order to progress past that you must research every technology leading up to it.

Other "soft" bottlenecks include (which means you have to research the majority of techs leading up to it):
-End of the Classical Era/beginning of Medieval
-End of Atomic Era/beginning of Information

Spoiler :

Comments, suggestions, recommendations?

 

[Guynemer]

Comments, suggestions, recommendations?

Some of them make sense (fishing), some do not (alchemy), and some seem out of sequence (electricity).

Moreover, if one problem is moving through civics relatively faster than techs, shouldn't the civics tree be the one padded out?

 

[Brutha2]

I like the look of it with a few more techs, nice job. I'd prune out hydraulics or plumbing along with alchemy, move metallurgy to where hydraulics was as in it's current position it doesn't require you to know iron working (though its hard to tell). Perhaps add glassworking in alongside Magnetism, clockwork could also be added, although they may both be a bit paddy too. Refridgeration and Pennicilin/modern medicine could find a home somewhere in the industrial/modern tree. I feel like telecommunications should be parrallel with computers, and some tech symbolising mobile networks/the internet could have them both as a prerequisite - perhaps just "The Internet" could work, and it could raise diplo knowledge levels about all other civs when you discover it.

I'd also like to see some form of low carbon technology in the modern era - wind farms and solar panels - but then the question would be if they'd be a tile improvement or an industrial zone addition; if it's the former I suspect it's not modable at this point. You could add wind farms to industrial zones by the coast and on hills and solar panels adjacent to desert tiles tiles.

Another thought is that you could tie in era upgrades to road speeds to specific technologies, so you could use techs like railroad and invention for that practical purpose, then add a modern equivalent highways/motorways as a technology as an offshoot of plastics.

I definitely agree that civics could also be fleshed out (only 8 info/atomic era civics makes so little sense with how much we've changed), but one step at a time! You could tie in certain civics to be only unlockable with certain techs, it annoys me you can get social media without computers.

 

[Jason Farber]

-remove dead-end techs (this should help the AI just a bit)
-require total era completion before moving on to another era (this is more relaxed with earlier eras and becomes more stringent in later eras), this should have the added effect of preventing serious beelining
_______________________________________

I like both of your approaches and hope you implement them and the civics overhaul sounds good as well, having civics that are far ahead of your technology makes no sesne

 

[Littlebob86]

If you write in code for needing all techs before moving on, can you please keep that to an easy section to remove in your ini's?

Also someone mentioned tying roads to tech, isn't a terrible idea, and I remember reading one person mentioning using airports later on being able to trade from other airports.

+1 for having the internet as a tech

 

[UGotNinjaTold]

Hey, I was just looking at the new techs and thought that "Theory of Gravity" was really specific for a technology. Maybe something more general that can lead to Scientific Theory, like "Calculus" could be used instead?

 

[God of Kings]

Hey, I was just looking at the new techs and thought that "Theory of Gravity" was really specific for a technology. Maybe something more general that can lead to Scientific Theory, like "Calculus" could be used instead?

Calculus would be a much better choice, as it has many more applications than just the Theory of Gravity. In fact, the mechanics of the Theory of Gravity is better understood with Calculus.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Next version of the Tech Tree completed! I've taken several of your suggestions and comments into account. I still haven't reassigned Units/etc.

And to those concerned about this imbalancing the Civics Tree, I plan on releasing both overhauls simultaneously.

Spoiler :

Comments, suggestions, complaints?

 

[thecrazyscot]

I have followed this instruction, but the game does not "see" it at all...
I have also installed YnAMP and it works.
Do you have such issue?

I'm sorry I've never seen that happen before. Did you unzip the file or just drop the zipped file into the mod folder?

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I'm looking forward from switching over from my collection of hodgepodge mods to Omnibus, and the tech trees are what I am waiting on to do it. This looks good. I'm concerned about the adding of extra techs, but I'd love to give it a shot.

Is there any chance of your including 8 ages of war or addressing promotions similarly?

 

[Brutha2]

I feel like Combustion should lead to flight, not too sure how would be best to do it; also, having both physics and electronics could be just one tech for little cost. I like the look of the earlier eras, all looks good really.

 

[Guynemer]

I like the look of that tree a lot better than the base game, and it even improves on your first offering. The only semantic suggestion I'd have is that "perspective" (either in its artistic or philosophical meanings) sounds like something that would fit better in the civics tree than in the tech tree. ("Economics" "Education" and "Apprenticeship" as well, FWIW, but that's a base-game issue.) I also feel like "steel" comes entirely too late, as steel has been created and used for millennia, but that's also an issue with the base game, as opposed to your mod.