Theoretical Governments

[stormbind]

Can you help devise a good selection of governments for a Civ3 modification?

First, I would point out that history has not tested every government type.

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United States has a Democratic Republic.
United Kingdom has a Democratic Constitutional Monarchy.
Former USSR had a Dictating Communist Party.
Interegnum period of British history was a Dictating Republic.

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I can find no example of a Democratic Communism, though I can see no reason why such a government couldn't exist. What other theoretical governments would have novelty value?

How many types of government have I missed?

 

[Mariusz]

Originally posted by stormbind

I can find no example of a Democratic Communism, though I can see no reason why such a government couldn't exist.

How about China? They are communist, but they are becoming more liberal, especially in economy.

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Mariusz


How about China? They are communist, but they are becoming more liberal, especially in economy.

When was the last time China democratically elected their leaders?

 

[superslug]

China is definitely not a democratic communism, but Mariusz has an interesting point. Most of the failed/former communist governments were communist governments with purely socialist economies. China's experimentation with capitalism is indeed unique for a communist regime.

 

[stormbind]

The modification I'm attempting to do is set in the future, following a "civilization reset" that forces your tiny family group to start from scratch and rediscover the last 100 years of advances and a few others, like democracy (which most heads of households have no comprehension of) ...

The following is certainly not cast in stone, but these are the governments I current have in mind:

Socialist Democracy
Socialist Dictator
Capitalist Democracy
Capitalist Dictator
Liberal Democracy
Liberal Dictator

All civs start as Liberal Dictator.

The tech: "Socialism" unlocks Socialist Dicatator.
The tech: "Capitalism" unlocks Capitalist Dictator.

The tech: "Democracy" unlocks Socialist Democracy, Capitalist Democracy and Liberal Democracy. I'm looking for a way to cut Anarchy down to one turn when swapping between the last three government types.
----
Example to set the theme:

The tech: "Archeology" unlocks the chance to built The Great Museum, which gives you two free techs

 

[stormbind]

Originally posted by superslug
China's experimentation with capitalism is indeed unique for a communist regime.

Which underlines the point that Communism is not synonymous with Socialism.

Which begs the question, what is Communism?

 

[brianshapiro]

china is becoming fascist

government becoming council of state run corporations within market economy,
increased nationalism and ethnocentrism,

 

[stormbind]

Looking at the United Kingdom...

British Steel, British Rail, Royal Mail, National Health Service - All (fairly recent) examples of government owned corporations operating within a market economy.

Yet throughout these changes the government was purely Democraticly elected. My point being only that there being "government owned corporations" does not suggest they are controlled by a fascist or communist government.

 

[brianshapiro]

stormbind yes and its easy to argue that some aspects of modern democracies are fascistic, also because of influences by corruption
but its different from what i meant though; where in fascist governments the governing body was a corporate council of both industries and labor; and more substantial amount of industries directed by the state

 

[stormbind]

In addition to those already mentioned... British Broadcasting Service, British Telecom, British Gas, British Aerospace, British Airways, British...

I don't actually know if all of those were government owned, but there stands a fairly good chance.

Beside the fact that ministers were elected in Britain, how different was it to that of the Soviet government?

I'm not trying to pick bones or argue... I am just totally unable to understand what was so unique about Communism

 

[ivory]

What makes communism so different is how it deals with corruption. It is the only government in which the location of the Palace and FP don't matter. This wouldn't be the first thread that was closed because it had turned into a political debate and had nothing to do with Civ. So

Originally posted by stormbind
The tech: "Democracy" unlocks Socialist Democracy, Capitalist Democracy and Liberal Democracy. I'm looking for a way to cut Anarchy down to one turn when swapping between the last three government types.

What would be the differences between these three, more shields, less war weariness, cheaper police stations? And any idea how to approach the no-ararchy thing? And what are the joys of those other types you mentioned? Just out of interest, and a slight worry that you 're not going to find what you 're looking for here. Maybe try the Off-Topic or History forum.

 

[America444]

i got a good one democratic dictatorship iraq saddam was elected and he claimed he ran a democracy and he claimed he was a president

 

[YNCS]

Let's ignore historical examples for the time being and consider Ivory's questions:

What would be the differences between these three, more shields, less war weariness, cheaper police stations? And any idea how to approach the no-ararchy thing? And what are the joys of those other types you mentioned?

I have a couple of suggestions:

Socialist democracy
War weariness
Corruption less than capitalist democracy
Workers at 100% efficiency

Capitalist democracy
War weariness
Corruption less than Republic, greater than socialist democracy
Workers at 150% efficiency

Socialist Dictator (unchanged from Communism in game)
No war weariness
Corruption at Communist level
Workers at 100% efficiency

Capitalist Dictator
No war weariness
Corruption at Communist level
Workers at 150% efficiency

Liberal Democracy (unchanged from Democracy in game)
War weariness
Corruption at Democracy level
Workers at 150% efficiency

Liberal Dictator
No war weariness
Corruption at Republic level
Workers at 150% efficiency

 

[stormbind]

Originally posted by ivory
What makes communism so different is how it deals with corruption. It is the only government in which the location of the Palace and FP don't matter.

That's in the game. I wanted to know what the reality of it was, so I could use it the mod and understand why it does that...

btw, thanks for those YNCS

The evenly spread corruption scenario seems to match a Socialist theme, which is associated with but not limited to Communism.

What would be the differences between these three, more shields, less war weariness, cheaper police stations? And any idea how to approach the no-ararchy thing?

I thought there was a reduced-anarchy wonder but I couldn't find an option in the editor so perhaps I am wrong

They can affect corruption, draft rate, worker efficieny, espionage, no. of free units per city... etc. I think all democracies would suffer from high war-weariness. I mean, who votes to die?

 

[Rhino Ryan]

Who cares. I think that Communism is good enough

 

[stormbind]

I thought Communism should perhaps be indistinguishable from Socialist Dictator.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Georgia had a "Menshevik" regime for a while after the Russian Revolution, which has been destribed as democratic and communistic, but I don't know anything much about it. It was eventually destroyed by the Red Army.

 

[china444]

Originally posted by America444
i got a good one democratic dictatorship iraq saddam was elected and he claimed he ran a democracy and he claimed he was a president

Thats pretty much just a dictatorship, not different.


The only different thing is he claims it is. But NO difference.

 

[John-LP]

My suggestions:

Authoritarian - Rule by one absolute ruler.

Feudalism - Rule by wealthy land owners, based on the holding of all land in fief or fee and the resulting relation of lord to vassal and characterized by homage, legal and military service of tenants, and forfeiture.

Socialist Democracy - Majority rules, no matter how slim. The predominat views of the majority are held as law. Majority opinion is the measure of power, rule by lobby groups.

Capitolist Republic - "Cash rules everything around me, cream get the money, dollar, dollar bill y`all". The wealthy few dominate politics with their money. Cumulative wealth is the measure of power.

Libertarian Democracy - Individuals rule. Citizens are allowed to live as they see fit. Government primarily serves to protect the people from foriegn or domestic aggression. Power is vested in the individual.

I guess none of these are really theoretical though.

 

[Pembroke]

Perhaps you could use the two dimensional political plane model as your basis for the governments?

The model consists of two perpendicular axis: "the amount of political freedom" and "the amount of economical freedom".

        Pol
         A
         :
         :
         :
         :
         :
---------+---------->Eco
         :
         :
         :
         :
         :

Of course, you can finegrade it as much as you want, but even with simple "low", "moderate" and "high" values you get 9 different governments:

Eco: low, Pol: low : Socialistic Dictatorship. The rulers control every aspect of the society. Example: former USSR

Eco: mod, Pol: low : Dictatorship. The rulers have all political power suppressing the opposition, but give some freedom to their subjects as to how they use their property. Example: Mussolini's Italy.

Eco: high, Pol: low : Capitalistic Dictatorship. The rulers hold the political power but don't concern themselves with the market or actively support it. Example: Pinochet's Chile.

Eco: low, Pol: mod : State runs the market, but the people have some say in the government. Could be used to describe some Ancient and Medieval political situations with their nobility, clergy, etc.

Eco: mod, Pol: mod : Moderate state. Could be used to describe some early Republics. The people have a say, but not a true "one man, one vote" system either.

Eco: high, Pol: mod : Oligarchy, Plutocracy, etc. Those who manage to make the money have the power.

Eco: low, Pol: high : Socialistic Democracy. The market is largely state run, but the people held the political power. Example: Scandinavian countries in the 1970s.

Eco: mod, Pol: high: Democracy. The state retains control of some aspects of the market but political power rests with the people. Example: most Western democracies today

Eco: high, Pol: high: Capitalistic Democracy. The Libertarian way. Example: not implemented anywhere AFAIK.