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There is no escape from Chaos

Discussion in 'Wildmana Modmod' started by Sephi, May 26, 2020.

  1. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
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    So yesterday I wanted to see, If I can still compile Master of Mana. Turns out I found my MoM 3.0 alpha again with a lot of changed that got never released. Not sure exactly what, but the installer is 20% bigger than for the alpha or 2.0.

    You can download it from sourceforge if you want. It installs into "Master of Mana Workspace" and you either need Master of Mana installed or just rename the folder to "Master of Mana". If Xtended is in your "Master of Mana" folder it should also work.

    You need to use the Mom_Planes script. Some others might work as well, but the erebus one doesn't work. The map is divided in different planes. It also uses a new combat system. But not all civs are finished and no tutorial, so a lot of chaos right now.
     
    GIR, Alexej, Jojo_Fr and 3 others like this.
  2. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    If you have any feedback / wishes, please let me know
     
  3. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

    Joined:
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    Location:
    France
    welcome back !

    I hope you'll have time to go on a little bit... but I'll dl it, "for science".
    it'll be good to re-try the newest oddities that you planned :)
     
  4. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    Thanks Calavente, nice to see you being around. I do plan to make some updates, but first I need to play it to figure out what the current status is. I only played a few turns, but it looked like a lot of fun so I uploaded it.

    I will use Bannor, their units are finished and the crusaders have some nice new sounds.
     
  5. vali

    vali Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    It's good to see you again, especially since I don't think I ever had a chance to tell you how much I've enjoyed this mod. My thoughts on the Alpha:

    I especially like the combat rework.
    Wonders being something you can capture from barbarians is a fun idea, though having to hold a city on the other side of the world isn't ideal. Maybe if capturing the city built the wonder in your capitol instead?
    Resources giving smaller bonuses makes me a little sad, but it looks like city specializations is replacing some of that functionality. I think you had city specializations in an earlier version of MoM as well.
    Civics screen feels really empty, especially after playing civ 6.
    MoM has never emphasized water and ocean units much, but with the removal of water mana and the planes map having no oceans it feels like I'd never bother with an actual ship again. Might be for the best, given how much the AI struggles with moving armies across oceans.

    The guilds rework is good
    -Having the Esus guild give money from towns never made much sense, so moving that to merchants is good.
    -Lots of nerfs, especially to the rangers. Spider pens don't give 20% commerce, happiness removed from stuff, and no elephant conservatories. This is probably a good idea, since in the past I picked rangers as my first guild 90% of the time, while in a new game I'd think twice before picking them.
    -Not sure why the mages guild was removed.
    -I didn't actually play a game, but just from looking things over some guilds are pretty lack-luster compared to others. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since different guilds have different use cases, but Esus still looks really small beside the merchants.

    For suggestions, since units die less often I'd make them harder to build. I also think it would be cool to change national units to a 2 or 3 unit cap, but make them much better, and add more different kinds of national units, especially to the early and mid-game. Since they're limited in number you can give them cool stats/abilities without being overpowering.

    Other than that, it looks like lots of content was removed, or hasn't been added back in yet, and lots more got nerfed. I also got lots of errors. It definitely feels like a work in progress. MoM is one of my favorite games, so if you decide to finish this I'd be excited to play.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  6. Felis catus

    Felis catus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
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    22
    Welcome back! Very glad to see that you are here again.
    I guess we may have completely new MoM sooner or later. That's great :thumbsup:
     
  7. scutarii

    scutarii King

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    Oh, good to see some vets back !
     
  8. Vital Brasil

    Vital Brasil Chieftain

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    Location:
    Brazil
    Hello ! Its awesome to see Sephi is back. I absolutely adore this mod and every now and then i come back to play it.

    I just installed this experimental version and wow, the changes made to combat are awesome ! Unfortunaly this version is not polished, so i cant see me playing it for much longer, but i really liked the direction the mod took. I really wish this version could be finished and integrated with Xtended. I know this would be a colossal work, but a man can dream... lol.
     
    Atethebones likes this.
  9. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
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    Personnaly I think your new combat system is going too far.
    Civ IV players are used to the infinite stacking of units in one tile.

    I would prefer a go back to the normal system, and improves this great mod here. :)
     
  10. Seventh Star

    Seventh Star Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
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    75
    Tried to take a go a this.

    Run into error messages during world creation:
    More python errors start dropping sooner or later.

    Guessing something is wrong with my install but not sure what.

    I have the latest Xtended in Master of Mana and I have Civ running in Win7 compat mod to get Ashes to work.
     
  11. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    thanks I started a game to see what happens. and I'm frustrated.

    the city screen is empty.. I cannot build a unit, but I already have 2 spare settlers ???

    combat is interesting with nobody dying straight of... or ever.
    however how do I trigger the ability to upgrade a unit ? to use that sweet xp for something ?
    I have some units that got the "eagle" and could buy a str / const/ dex/ char/ widsom promotion... but some have 60 xp and couldn't even earn 1 promotion.

    units heal very very very slowly. even dural professors, with medic 2 take 12+ turns (medic 2 giving +1health/turn seems very small when any combat takes at least 4 health or even 23 health !! ) (and those are for the ones allowed to heal...)

    how will I ever get enough str / dex to get those discipline promotions ?
    how can I build units ?

    it seems there are no rooster anymore, but the "normal" evolution of units... but the tech tree is the one adapted to rooster and +2str upgrades.

    strength promo giving... 0.5str per str is +1... it's a weak promotion (10-->11... about 10% increase).

    any tips about what to use the different attributes for ?
    it's not clear as most promotion need at least a minimal value of multiple attributes, so the attribute screen is cluttered with "opens promotion x or y".

    how do I gain xp ?
    how do I chase the barb out of my territory if it's impossible to kill them in 1-2-3 turns ?
     
  12. GIR

    GIR It'sNotStupidIt'sAdvanced

    Joined:
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    EU
    have to try this in my holidays at home (thx to corona). didnt play civ4 / FFH... for a long time but have the best memories for this game. i'm not so happy with civ5 & 6 especially the mods.... FFH and its mod-mods was the best...
     
  13. Guru-Meditation

    Guru-Meditation Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
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    I am encountering the same error message.

    Installed into "Mastert of Mana Workspace", renamed it "Master of Mana", started custom games and Play Nows, tried different maps, foremost the MoM_Planes one, but none worked. Always the "couldnt find starting plot"-error.

    What can i do to get it running?

    P.S.
    I am using the Steam-Version of Civ4, just if that matters.
     
  14. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    @ Sephi,

    I noticed that some civs have only a few blocked units and a few unique units while some civs have a lot of blocked units and either a lot of UU or very few UU.
    which are the civs that have a right "rooster" for CHAOS MOM ???
     
  15. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    A last note to share my findings.

    sometimes you get a unit upgrading to "veteran" .. and it can gain some attributes, which effects are unkown. But there is no real controllable trigger of veteran units (hower one tech seems to allow 1 more veteran unit in the empire... but I didn't find where you can access this number / other ways to increase the number)
    strength seems to increase unit str, and how much damage you deal toward other units
    Constitution increase life, and thus how much damage you can endure.
    I didn't notice any effect of dexterity, wisdom or charisma.

    the options for promotions seems limited.
    supposedly once you get 13 of each attribute you can buy the hero promotion,
    but most gear need at leat 13 or 17 or 21 of an attribute or 2.

    I find that free xp is not adapted to xp/combat (10 then 5) and to xp goals (30 - 60 - 120 - 220) free xp, for example for adept, is 1 per few turns, agile mind (needing 13 wisdom) gives +1 xp/combat... not much against 220 xp needed for level 4!
    training grounds allow to teach up to 4 or 7 xp :) laughable.

    that said, some units still profit from the +2str from some techs... only visible in the civilopedia of the units and not anymore on the tech screen.

    otherwise, it seems as good as standard MoM :)
    (just that no trigger on veteran & unknown effect of attributes & high attributes costs of promotions & lacking promotions, makes the game less fun)
     

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