These Fractured States of America - Development Thread

[CornPlanter]

So.. I guess no one is interested in this project?

I am. But I'm pretty new to civ4 modding too. So far I just did many random changes to get used to modding and to explore opportunities. Currently I'm trying to get SDK thing working, and I'm already pretty much familiar with XML-level modding So, in general, I could help with: ideas, research, programming (XML, later SDK 'cause I will definitely learn it, and even more later - Python). I couldn't help with: 3D art, more complicated texts (English isn't my mother tongue).

 

[CornPlanter]

Considering Metis... yes, probably they had no real chance. I'd say nobody had real chance back then, not even Pontiac, Tecumseh or Sitting Bull with Crazy Horse. Apache & Seminole guerillas had no chance either. But: separate Metis state would definitely add flavor. These days not many even know about Metis Rebellion. I think they would like learning something new. And it would also make the game more unique. It would add a surprise element. When you say "every revolution was successful", everybody would think about and expect to see independent South States, probably independent Sioux & Five Civilized Tribes, but not many would think of and expect to see independent Metis State. Ofcourse it's just my opinion

And I agree that Metis should be AI-only civ. They could also have some kind of unique unit with Woodsman 2 promotion (so that they woun't be easily conquered) and access to lots of fur (or lots of different kinds of fur) to trade. That's just some early stage ideas

 

[OzzyKP]

Ok, I've put some work into this and I have pretty much all the civs and leaders included. I haven't put in the Metis, though I'm open to doing so at a later point. Their rebellion was a bit later than the start point for this mod (i.e. 1851) so if we'd want them in we'd have to work out some mechanism (like pull something from Rhye's and Fall perhaps) to introduce them later. Also I want every civ to be playable. Some are certainly going to be easier or harder than others, but I want them all to be playable.

I'm having an issue right now with the code. I've added in all the civs we're using, and I tried removing all the civs we aren't using (Egyptians, China, Maya, etc). But that is causing crashes. Any ideas?

 

[CornPlanter]

I'm having an issue right now with the code. I've added in all the civs we're using, and I tried removing all the civs we aren't using (Egyptians, China, Maya, etc). But that is causing crashes. Any ideas?

Crashes means error messages while "initializing XML (uncached)" or real crashes like "program is performing illegal operation and needs to close"? If you see clear error messages then probably you need to fix XML. Chances are, crashes are caused by references to no longer existing civs from other XML files. Or you typoed while removing or so. If you like, you can send me XML files you edited and I will fix this issue.

By the way I think it's time to decide clearly what kind of victories are you going to have in this mod. Definitely there will be no space victory, but probably you'd like to add some sort of new one(s)? And if every civ should be given reasonably equal opportunities to achieve each kind of victory, or each civ would have it's strengths and weaknesses, e.g. maybe native americans could achieve Conquest victory only theoretically or not at all but their strength lies in Culture? A good example could be Plotinus Civ3 mod "The Desert and the Mountain" where each African civ (or groups of civs) had it's own way to victory: culture, trade, diplomacy (!), pure war. I think it's important to decide things like that at the very early stages of developement, because it defines pretty much every other thing you are going to make: unique buildings and units, tech tree, and so forth.

 

[OzzyKP]

Ok, I uploaded what I have so far. All civs are playable. I haven't hooked up UUs or UBs yet. But all civs and leaders work.

Download here.


Included civs:

Republic of Deseret
Brigham Young (Industrious, Spiritual)

Confederate States of America
Jefferson Davis (Imperialist, Spiritual)

United States of America
Abraham Lincoln (Industrious, Financial)

Republic of Texas
Mirabeau Lamar (Horsemastery, Expansionist)

Mexico
Antonio López de Santa Anna (Aggressive, Imperialist)

Vermont Republic
Ethan A. Hitchcock (Philosophical, Protective)

Canada
John MacDonald (Expansionist, Protective)

California
John Fremont (Creative, Organized)

Oregon
John McLoughlin (Philosophical, Creative)

Republic of the Rio Grande
Santiago Vidaurri (Charismatic, Organized)

Great Sioux Nation
Sitting Bull (Horsemastery, Native)

Chinookan tribes
Comcomly (Charismatic, Native)

Apache Nations
Geronimo (Aggressive, Native)

Five Tribes of the Cherokee
Sequoya (Financial, Native)

The Native or "Horsemastery" traits aren't included yet (any better suggestions for a name for horsemastery?). Each trait (with the exception of native) are used by exactly two civs.

In the .rar there are two different mods. One is labeled "Fractured States" and the other is "Fractured States - Take 2". CornPlanter, the Take 2 mod is when I attempted to remove the civs that aren't in the mod. The game starts up ok, but when you go to play a game it crashes when it loads the map. If you could figure it out, I'd be in your debt.

My only thought as to a victory condition - and it hasn't been developed much at all - is to suggest or hope that the country can be united by the time World War 2 starts. With the assumption that the US needs to be big enough to stand up the Axis. But that kinda restores the regular timeline which isn't as much fun as continuing off in the alternate history. So I haven't thought of any other good ideas for victory conditions.

 

[CornPlanter]

Download here.

I get this error:

CornPlanter, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

 

[OzzyKP]

Wrong link, try: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=6854

 

[say1988]

Who kicked the French out of Canada?

The British. The Seven Years War.

You missed one important cause of the civil war (perhaps the most important, as I have been previously told) was the rights of the state government vs. the centralization of power.

 

[CornPlanter]

OK I fixed issues with XML files, at least the ones with removing other civs and leaders. Also I did some other minor changes and made changelog.txt with details. The file is actually .rar but since this forum doesn't accept .rar I renamed it to .zip. Rename it back to xml.rar before extracting (probably it will work well with .zip too, I don't know).

Note 1: Currently new leaders diplomacy texts don't exist, so you can see something like TXT_DIPLO_LEADER_SANTA_ANA_FIRST_CONTACT_1 in diplomacy screen instead of real text like "Hi, I'm Santa Anna". You can fix it by finding text files and replacing each old leader name with a new one respectively (I listed every replacement in changelog.txt). Problem is, diplomacy texts are stored in several different files. One of them is CIV4GameText_Objects_BTS.xml.

Note 2: The game crashes each time I enter World Builder (CTRL+W). Maybe it has something to do with graphics?

Note 3: I added back Barbarians "civ" and their leader LEADER_BARBARIAN. I don't know if you need it or not (maybe native americans could do good barbarians?) but since I'm not that familiar with the way Barbarians work in civ4 I thought it's safer to leave them. I think barbarians could be easely turned off at some place.

 

[OzzyKP]

AWESOME. :b:

Excellent work, thanks so much.

 

[OzzyKP]

Ok, I've set up a basic map for people interested in giving this a whirl. All the civs just start a regular game (4000 BC) in roughly the correct location on the map (the Confederates start around Montgomery, Alabama instead of Richmond, Virginia since it is so close to Washignton, DC).

The map requires extensive tweaking so I'm sure everyone's starting location sucks, but it is something to play around with if anyone is interested in just getting a feel for this mod-in-progress. (coming along quite nicely I think)

Now if only we could figure out the World Builder crash... that'll hamper a lot of my map tweaking... hmm...

Anyhow, the map is attached here. I have updated the regular download with the map and CornPlanter's fixes.

Get the whole working thing here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=6854

Making good progress

 

[OzzyKP]

An idea for a victory condition (or part of a victory condition). The top goal for any new nation is diplomatic recognition. You aren't truly a nation unless others recognize you as such. So that could be a goal in this game to secure diplomatic recognition of your soverignty from all the civs in the game plus the 6 or 7 international powers.

It could be a new form of treaty we create in addition to peace, war, open borders, defense pact, and permanent alliance. The new diplomacy system could be used for securing recognition from outside powers.

We could put different modifiers on a civ's likelyhood to recognize a specific nation. Like the USA would be extremely reluctant to recognize the CSA. Mexico would be hesitant to recognize Texas, California, and Deseret. Pretty much everyone would resist recognizing the native tribes. New nations like Texas and California would be quick to recognize each other since it helps their case. Maybe we could have a system where the more nations that recognize you the more momentum you build toward getting other nations to recognize you. But each nation has a ranking of some sort so that recognition from Britain means a lot more than recognition from the Rio Grande Republic.

The only issue with it is that we couldn't use this victory condition for the USA itself, since everyone (presumably) would already recognize it at the start of the game. Maybe they can be the lone civ with the goal of conquering the entire territory from Atlantic to Pacific. Their goal could be to recover Manifest Destiny. It would be a completely understandable goal (that's what we did in the real world). Plus it would be the most challenging which is appropriate since the USA will have the biggest/best nation in the game.

Also, I think 7 is a nice round number for the foreign powers (7 religions, 7 corporations...). So for the 7 I'm thinking:
Britain
France
Spain
Germany
China
Japan
and... either Russia or the Ottomans

The end point then would be to join the League of Nations, and that can only happen if you have been recognized by all the other nations in the game. Such a victory only comes available late into the game - after WW1. So it'd be appropriate. Plus we could have WW1 throw some curve balls into the mix that shakes up the recognition process.

 

[OzzyKP]

Some notes about the two new traits:

Horsemastery

First of all, the name really sucks. Secondly, this one will be a kinda obvious trait. Aggressive gives a free promotion to melee & gunpowder, protective gives free promotions to archery & gunpowder, and horsemastery gives free promotions to mounted units. Since we haven't yet figured out what the tech tree will look like or what units & buildings there will be, it may be too early to get too detailed with this trait. But I'm thinking of perhaps giving mounted units sentry & mobility for free, and then cheap stables. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Native

The native civs will be half-way between settled civs like the others, and barbarians for the purpose of this scenario. Since the natives didn't always mesh well with the laws and customs of the European powers I think an interesting ability to give all their units would be the power to operate kinda like caravels do and be able to enter anyone's borders peacefully. It would be a neat effect, plus it mirrors the real world in which Indian reservations were created that were partly controlled by the natives and partly controlled by the United States. So this effect could symbolize that idea.

Plus since not all the natives were settled people (or less than the white men) I'd like to use the camp unit from Warlords' Genghis Khan scenario. This would be a mobile unit that would automatically spawn units every so often. Units spawned from these camps could all start with hidden nationality and would be treated like barbarians. It is possible these native camps would just replace the independent barbarians altogether.

Oh! Another idea. The camp could be fueled by the Buffalo resource. Like the camp will only spawn a unit if it is on top of a buffalo resource. Really tapping into the power that the buffalo held for the plains Indians. Of course it'll be tough to make that work with the Apache and especially the Chinook who wouldn't have a lot of buffalo around. But I think it'd be a fascinating way of portraying this conflict. We could give the white powers a buffalo hunter unit that would destroy buffalos (for profit!) and the natives would have to stop them or risk losing their way of life (and a powerful tool). Railroads could automatically destroy any buffalo resources within 2 tiles (it was common practice for people to shoot buffalo from the windows of passing trains, a practice that had a devastating effect on the buffalo). So it'd give an incentive to the natives to stop the expansion of the railroad (another good parallel to the real world).

We could also give the natives special improvements that get more hammers/food/commerce than standard improvements to demonstrate the efficiency of the natives to live off the land and how nothing went to waste.

 

[OzzyKP]

Another thought:

This is such a cool period in American history and there are so many cool things we can incorporate. This was the wild west gunslinger era, so I'd love to incorporate some of the famous bandits as special units who would be invisible (except for some law men who could spot them) and be able to rob banks (deduct your treasury). Maybe we could use the espionage system to implement it.

Outlaws:
Wild Bill Hickok
Calamity Jane
Billy the Kid
Jesse James
Butch Cassidy

Long arm of the law:
W. B. 'Bat' Masterson
Wyatt Earp
Doc Holliday

Other important parts of this era to incorporate somehow:
Cattle rustling
Cattle drives
Oregon Trail
Santa Fe Trail
Gambling
Saloons
Mountain men
Buffalo Bill Wild West Show
Gold rushes
The Homestead Act
Pony Express
Railroad
Transcontinental Railroad
Traveling Circuses
Hatfield-McCoy feud
Telegraph
Telephone
Phonograph
Barbed Wire
Radio
Titanic
Smith & Wesson
Colt
Gatling Gun
Robber Barons
Labor Unions
Strikes
Pinkertons
Haymarket Riot
Second Industrial Revolution
Automobile
Flight
Assembly Line
yellow journalism
Ellis Island
Statue of Liberty
Immigration
Chinese Exclusion Act
Abolitionists
Woman Suffrage Movement
Prohibition Movement
Progressive Movement
Muckrakers
Populist movement
Dawes Act
World Exhibitions
Ku Klux Klan
Gold standard
Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890
McCormick
Great White Fleet
Assassinations
National parks
World War I
Baseball
Pro Sports

People from this era:
Christopher "Kit" Carson
General George Armstrong Custer
Crazy Horse
Pancho Villa
Alexander Graham Bell
George Westinghouse
Thomas Edison
Cornelius Vanderbilt
Boss Tweed
The Wright Brothers
John D. Rockefeller
Andrew Carnegie
J.P. Morgan
Henry Ford
Samuel Gompers
Mark Twain
Joseph Pulitzer
William Randolph Hearst
Eugene Debs
Booker T. Washington
W.E.B. DuBois
John Brown
Susan B. Anthony
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Upton Sinclair
William Jennings Bryan
Henry Cabot Lodge
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
Gen. John J. Pershing
Woodrow Wilson
Ulysses Grant
Robert E. Lee
(and many, many more civil war generals)
John Henry
Paul Bunyan
Other tall tales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_of_Mexico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Juárez



Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_(1865-1918)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Old_West

 

[OzzyKP]

Damn it, why do I always do my best brain storming when I need to get to sleep...

Ideas for civics:

Government
Dictatorship
Theocracy
White Male Suffrage
Universal Male Suffrage
Woman Suffrage

Society
Frontier
Tribal
Industrial
Agricultural
Plantation/high society
Pastoral/Rancher (same as frontier?)

Labor
Slavery
Unrestricted labor force, no worker protections...?
Immigrant Labor Force
Emancipation
Something dealing with agriculture
Progressive reforms or Unionized labor

Economy
Hacienda/Plantation Economy
Laissez Fair
Living in Union with the land (too sleepy to think of good titles)
Progressivism
Socialism

Science
Traditionalism
Eugenics & Racialism
Technology
Pure Science
...?

 

[CornPlanter]

An idea for a victory condition (or part of a victory condition). The top goal for any new nation is diplomatic recognition. You aren't truly a nation unless others recognize you as such. So that could be a goal in this game to secure diplomatic recognition of your soverignty from all the civs in the game plus the 6 or 7 international powers.

I must say this is a pretty good idea. But:
* I think your new diplomat system is too complicated. I'd say it's enough having buildings which "convert" resources simulating overseas trade with Old Continent.
* Recognition by Native Americans shouldn't be considered, I mean, US had never needed it, had they? And equally recognition of Native Americans shouldn't be considered, because they were recognized by US and other states like 20 times and each treaty was broken again and again. So they don't take part in this victory condition at all and they themselves need different one. With a possible exception of Cherokee.
* What if I play for Mexico and Texas (AI) needs recognition from me to achieve victory? I will never recognize them Possible workaround could be this: recognition = some period of peace. But it raises new issues, now it could be too easy to win against not that aggressive AI. Other issue is game time, if we need 100 turns of peace either I must start at least 100 turns before game ends or the game has no fixed ending.

The native civs will be half-way between settled civs like the others, and barbarians for the purpose of this scenario. Since the natives didn't always mesh well with the laws and customs of the European powers I think an interesting ability to give all their units would be the power to operate kinda like caravels do and be able to enter anyone's borders peacefully. It would be a neat effect, plus it mirrors the real world in which Indian reservations were created that were partly controlled by the natives and partly controlled by the United States. So this effect could symbolize that idea.

Thats a perfect idea too. Definitely deserves testing. I'd also suggest removing horsemastery but adding it's effect to natives. The problem with that treat is that it makes no sense. Protective helps with defending, that's why the leader is called protective. Aggressive helps with attacking, that's why the leader is called aggressive. But what kind of leader can help with riding horses? But if you strongly wanna keep it, I'd suggest a replacement, something like Raider. His maunted units probably additionaly could receive kinda "gains more money from pillage" and "pillaging doesn't use move" stuff. Thats too early for details ofcourse, but I give just a basic idea what I'm talking about.

Other important parts of this era to incorporate somehow:

+ Monroe Doctrine maybe?


p.s. and don't forget Sundance Kid along with Cassidy

 

[OzzyKP]

Corporation Ideas

Standard Oil - Bonus production from oil
US Steel - Converts Iron & Coal into Steel. Can found after invention of the Bessemer process tech
AT&T - Competes with Western Union
Ford Motor Company
Hudson Bay Company - Converts furs into gold
General Electric
Western Union - Competes with AT&T
United Fruit Company - Bonus food from fruit
United States Rubber Company
A textile company of some kind.. Mililiken & Co maybe? - Turns Sheep, Cotton & Silk (only obtained from China) into gold

 

[orinsul]

Dont try to replicate history
An united america has no reason to enter either world war
indeed without an American government seeking to control china there is no reason for its intervention in the second at all.
France, Britain, Spain and Germany are enough foreign powers to be going on with, as America never had anything to do with the orient untill well after its debubt as a world power.
I would suggest that the best place to set it would be the year of the Civil War only with the north having volunteerily given the south its independance, so very frostly relations between the two but no war.
For this setting and inclusion of the Revolutions mod might work quite well as a disunited America without an all power federal army would be prone to instability.

 

[Panjandrum]

Looking interesting. Any chance you could drop VT and make an independent New England instead? I think it would be a more viable state. Civ does a poor job of representing small but dynamic nations, such as Switzerland or (I would presume) Vermont.

 

[orinsul]

I say keep Vermont
Being the smallest and surrounded by the two most powerfull will make it the most fun to play
although at the moment its all rather academic as it has just as much potential to be the greatest.
I wouldnt include indians in the final version as a playable nation.