Lord Chambers
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2001
- Messages
- 1,004
Apparently feedback goes here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11232502
I will move my post there since it 1)better fits there, 2)was three days out-of-date with the new version.
Here's what it did say, in case you're really curious.
I will move my post there since it 1)better fits there, 2)was three days out-of-date with the new version.
Here's what it did say, in case you're really curious.
Spoiler :
Here's some feedback. It's not comprehensively what I think of of the mod, it's just the notes I was making in my head while playing tonight that I figure I should proffer in case someone cares.
Things to fix:
One diplomatic modifier reads, "We're they're main rival" which should be "We're their main rival."
I built Chitzen Itza in a coastal city.
The tech tree doesn't have any scroll bar along the bottom. I have to use the mouse wheel. I wonder if this is a feature, or a bug for my resolution.
Sometimes the default city management focus (read: not hammer focus) leaves specialists as unemployed, which is conspicuous when there are a wealth of open specialist positions.
Work boats can't go in ocean even after Astronomy.
I can't embark land units into city which has a naval unit already in it. The reverse case, a land unit in the city when a naval unit tries to enter, works.
Things that are weird
Coliseums require Barracks to be built. I don't understand why either in terms of theme or gameplay.
I don't understand how Theatres work. "+1 happiness for every policy discovered." Is the number of policies discovered assessed when I complete the building and permanently fixed, or is it reassessed each turn? If it's the latter, it's way over-powered. If it's the former its still way over-powered--stronger than any wonder. But thankfully it doesn't seem to work either way, instead about 7 happiness.
The policies seem to be distributed about the trees almost at random, thematically. But more importantly, as a gameplay element, the distribution is nonsensical. Some of the strongest are at the start and some of the weakest are the hardest to get. I get the same obviously strongest ones in the same order every game, and never feel like I'm making a trade off. Surprisingly, overpowered policies like Rationality's +2 science specialist boost or Piety's 50% settler production were buffed in the latest version. I can't understand why.
I generally have thousands of gold on hand at any given moment. I like that it means rush buying is feasible, but not that no attempt has been made to balance this with the unchanged vanilla City State influence model. It's almost impossible not to be friends with every CS, unless you've learned that doing so might result in war with the one AI who, instead of being permanently broke, has thousands of gold like you.
I don't want three different buildings to build three different types of knights. This is a roleplaying flavor option, not a realistic strategic decision.
Infinite City Sprawl is the optimal option given that 1)cities can now be founded three tiles away, 2)the first three Commerce policies are overpowered and no-brainers on anything but a Pangaea, 3)two of the first three Rationality policies (+2 science to specialists and Libraries provide +1 happiness) are overpowered and no-brainers, 4) three of the obligatory and redundant ancient buildings (Apothecary, Storehouse, and Workshop) provide a total of three super specialists. Patronage is also a no-brainer, but mercifully it puts the +2 happiness policy in the latter half of the tree so it almost feels like you have to work for it.
Building Bloat
If there are going to be 5-10 buildings which add bonuses to specific resource tiles, it would be nice if you could redesign the construction interface. It is inadequate at the moment even using the queue to build just the obligatory buildings, let along scrolling past the extremely specialized buildings that are almost never worth building. I keep wishing I had a template I could click once which would build the same 7 buildings at the start, and then a governor who would have the mindless job of building the grain boosting buildings if it's a grainy city, or the furs and sheep building if it's a furry and sheepy city, or the ____ and ____ building if it's a _____ and _____ city.
In many ways the mod feels much more like Civ4, where tiles are more powerful, expansion is constricted but not wholly disincentivized, and cities can be specialized to a greater degree due to the greater number of buildings and wonders; all is good. Unfortunately on that last point, there are so many building options, with so many of those options being worthless, that the building aspect of the game is a chore. It seems like for about 25% of the buildings, their the availability depends on what terrain you settle the city on or "near" (whatever that means). Remembering what buildings you're enabling or disabling and where on the vast tech tree that building comes along would be a mess to consider while city settling, if any of those buildings were actually worth building. Thankfully strongest buildings can be built anywhere, so availability is really just a flavor option.
Similarly, the roughly 25% of buildings which have obsolescence dates seem to offer players some strategic tradeoffs, although the few times I've dug into the tech tree to try and analyze the cost-benefit I've found that none of those buildings are worth building anyway. The important point is that I don't want to unearth the tech tree and figure it out. Obsolescence and terrain-based availability in Nights Mod is neither a)a fun thing to think about, nor b) does it matter if I bother. At least one of those elements needs to be present in a strategy game, preferably both.
I don't want to have four buildings for making my ocean tiles better, 5-10 buildings which add +1 food to specific pairs of resources, or a wealth of specialist positions in every building so that I'm always in Caste System. This many buildings reduces the number of truly strategic decisions to make for city building, and introduces a bunch of details to keep track of/ignore, like the heap of of national/worldwide wonders that require you to search your empire for the city with the most luxuries in its radius, the most strategic resources, the most bonus resources, or the most sea resources.
Keep up the work though. The main screen interface provides a lot more useful information than vanilla Civ5. I've had fun exploring this mod and like that it attempts a new happiness model. In a few months, as the tech tree is refined; the policies, unique abilities and buildings, and governments are balanced; and the building bloat is reduced or tweaked to make them meaningful, I could definitely see myself recommending NiGHTS Mod to others.
Things to fix:
One diplomatic modifier reads, "We're they're main rival" which should be "We're their main rival."
I built Chitzen Itza in a coastal city.
The tech tree doesn't have any scroll bar along the bottom. I have to use the mouse wheel. I wonder if this is a feature, or a bug for my resolution.
Sometimes the default city management focus (read: not hammer focus) leaves specialists as unemployed, which is conspicuous when there are a wealth of open specialist positions.
Work boats can't go in ocean even after Astronomy.
I can't embark land units into city which has a naval unit already in it. The reverse case, a land unit in the city when a naval unit tries to enter, works.
Things that are weird
Coliseums require Barracks to be built. I don't understand why either in terms of theme or gameplay.
I don't understand how Theatres work. "+1 happiness for every policy discovered." Is the number of policies discovered assessed when I complete the building and permanently fixed, or is it reassessed each turn? If it's the latter, it's way over-powered. If it's the former its still way over-powered--stronger than any wonder. But thankfully it doesn't seem to work either way, instead about 7 happiness.
The policies seem to be distributed about the trees almost at random, thematically. But more importantly, as a gameplay element, the distribution is nonsensical. Some of the strongest are at the start and some of the weakest are the hardest to get. I get the same obviously strongest ones in the same order every game, and never feel like I'm making a trade off. Surprisingly, overpowered policies like Rationality's +2 science specialist boost or Piety's 50% settler production were buffed in the latest version. I can't understand why.
I generally have thousands of gold on hand at any given moment. I like that it means rush buying is feasible, but not that no attempt has been made to balance this with the unchanged vanilla City State influence model. It's almost impossible not to be friends with every CS, unless you've learned that doing so might result in war with the one AI who, instead of being permanently broke, has thousands of gold like you.
I don't want three different buildings to build three different types of knights. This is a roleplaying flavor option, not a realistic strategic decision.
Infinite City Sprawl is the optimal option given that 1)cities can now be founded three tiles away, 2)the first three Commerce policies are overpowered and no-brainers on anything but a Pangaea, 3)two of the first three Rationality policies (+2 science to specialists and Libraries provide +1 happiness) are overpowered and no-brainers, 4) three of the obligatory and redundant ancient buildings (Apothecary, Storehouse, and Workshop) provide a total of three super specialists. Patronage is also a no-brainer, but mercifully it puts the +2 happiness policy in the latter half of the tree so it almost feels like you have to work for it.
Building Bloat
If there are going to be 5-10 buildings which add bonuses to specific resource tiles, it would be nice if you could redesign the construction interface. It is inadequate at the moment even using the queue to build just the obligatory buildings, let along scrolling past the extremely specialized buildings that are almost never worth building. I keep wishing I had a template I could click once which would build the same 7 buildings at the start, and then a governor who would have the mindless job of building the grain boosting buildings if it's a grainy city, or the furs and sheep building if it's a furry and sheepy city, or the ____ and ____ building if it's a _____ and _____ city.
In many ways the mod feels much more like Civ4, where tiles are more powerful, expansion is constricted but not wholly disincentivized, and cities can be specialized to a greater degree due to the greater number of buildings and wonders; all is good. Unfortunately on that last point, there are so many building options, with so many of those options being worthless, that the building aspect of the game is a chore. It seems like for about 25% of the buildings, their the availability depends on what terrain you settle the city on or "near" (whatever that means). Remembering what buildings you're enabling or disabling and where on the vast tech tree that building comes along would be a mess to consider while city settling, if any of those buildings were actually worth building. Thankfully strongest buildings can be built anywhere, so availability is really just a flavor option.
Similarly, the roughly 25% of buildings which have obsolescence dates seem to offer players some strategic tradeoffs, although the few times I've dug into the tech tree to try and analyze the cost-benefit I've found that none of those buildings are worth building anyway. The important point is that I don't want to unearth the tech tree and figure it out. Obsolescence and terrain-based availability in Nights Mod is neither a)a fun thing to think about, nor b) does it matter if I bother. At least one of those elements needs to be present in a strategy game, preferably both.
I don't want to have four buildings for making my ocean tiles better, 5-10 buildings which add +1 food to specific pairs of resources, or a wealth of specialist positions in every building so that I'm always in Caste System. This many buildings reduces the number of truly strategic decisions to make for city building, and introduces a bunch of details to keep track of/ignore, like the heap of of national/worldwide wonders that require you to search your empire for the city with the most luxuries in its radius, the most strategic resources, the most bonus resources, or the most sea resources.
Keep up the work though. The main screen interface provides a lot more useful information than vanilla Civ5. I've had fun exploring this mod and like that it attempts a new happiness model. In a few months, as the tech tree is refined; the policies, unique abilities and buildings, and governments are balanced; and the building bloat is reduced or tweaked to make them meaningful, I could definitely see myself recommending NiGHTS Mod to others.