Though I have Theocracy Non-state religion spreads

[Bhruic]

No they don't...

As stated before religious civics only affect cities with a religion. So, Theocracy absolutely DOES stop spreading of non-state religions to cities WITH state religion. If you have a city with no state religion then described occurance can very well happen.

Which is exactly the point I was making - did you even read what I wrote?

The person I was responding to said: "IT absolutely DOES stop spreading through trade networks, not just missionaries."

That statement is false. The only time religion spreads through trading networks is when a city has no religion. And if the city has no religion, then Theocracy won't stop it from gaining one.

Bh

 

[onedreamer]

Well, the downside to having a foreign religion is that the civ who discovered it can see every city you have that has that religion, including the units inside. Pretty nice if they want to plan an attack.

furthermore, the foreign religion can spread to another country through your lands.

 

[TwoFaced]

I decided to fire up the world builder and see if I could confirm what happened to you. I created three cities, each with no religion, and put an AI city right next to my empire. I set the AI city as the holy city for Judaism. Our cities were connected by roads also. I then began playing the game and on the very first turn I adopted Judaism. I reloaded to see if it would happen again. Yup, sure enough I adopt Judaism (same city too). At that point I felt confident that my cities would in fact adopt a religion consistently.

So at this point I reload the map so that I have no religion but this time I modified my civ so that I had theocracy. This time religion did not spread to my cities. I skipped turn after turn and never got Judaism to spread. I even loaded it up and took control of the AI civ I had given the holy city too and tried sending a missionary in. When the missionary got to a city it said I could not convert them to a non-state religion or something to that effect.

From my test theocracy does work. So my question's are. Did you really have theocracy set? You weren't in anarchy at the time? Have you downloaded the patch? Mine is patched, maybe it was a bug they fixed.

 

[DSChapin]

I've had non-state religion appear in my cities while under Theocracy. I assumed that this meant Theocracy only stopped missionaries, not natural spread, but I haven't tried to confirm it.

 

[Pragmatic]

Two-Faced, can you try this setup?

Have two religions in your empire: your state religion, and a foreign religion. Set up a city that does not have religion, but that is connected and close to your "foreign religion" city. See if the foreign religion spreads to the atheist city.

 

[TwoFaced]

Two-Faced, can you try this setup?

Have two religions in your empire: your state religion, and a foreign religion. Set up a city that does not have religion, but that is connected and close to your "foreign religion" city. See if the foreign religion spreads to the atheist city.

I'll try that when I get a chance, but I think I tried something that might be just as good.

This was the set up:

I had three cities each connected via road. The capitol was the holy city of Judaism and the other cities had no religion. However, I did NOT have a state religion set. Meaning that basically Judaism in my capitol should have mimicked a foreign religion that spread into my empire before I selected theocracy. I decided to make it the holy city because I felt that might increase the chances the religion spreads.

I ran two tests. I had paganism selected first and skipped turns until the religion spread (took a loooong time). Then I reloaded an auto-save from a few turns back and skipped a couple of turns to verify that the religion would spread again. It did. So I reloaded the auto-save again and this time changed to theocracy. This time Judaism did not spread.

I'll test out your setup if you like but I think my test is pretty much the same thing. The only reason I used just one religion was because it cut down on the variables, and as far as I can tell you don't actually need a state religion set to stop the spread of non-state religions. In my experience all religions act as non-state religion unless they are the state religion.

 

[Psyringe]

Very solid testing, TwoFaced - thanks a lot!

 

[Pfeffersack]

Very interesting read, it answered some questions which showed up during playing and while writing my civic article.

However, there are still a few ones left...

1. Natural spreading of religions: If I have understanded the above correct, this is only possible, if a city hasn't got already a religion (regardless if it is state, your own or a foreign), correct ?
2. The natural spread happens only via trade routes - just to be connected with trade network (road, sea access for sharing ressources) isn't enough?

The latter question rised in my current game, where I am running a Confucianist Theocracy.I founded some new cities and didn't send missionaries in, because I hoped my own religion would spread into the cities on the natural way.However, nothing happened.According two TwoFaces tests, no foreign religion spread...but also no Confucianism.So I had a closer look at the cities and noticed they all had trade routes to foreign cities (thanks to my number of OBs).Those foreign cities are partly Confucianist, too.So my third question is:

3.Does Theocracy probably also prevents your own religion from natural spreading (perhaps at least when the "canal" is a trade route to a foreign city, which has your state religion)? Or I am just very unlucky? Has anyone seen natural spreading of his own religion under Theocracy?

 

[troytheface]

glad someone started this post. It has happened to me twice. Theocracy
and a state religion - and a city without that state religion converts to another religion. Reading this post i have at least some guesses as to why this happened. (Religion can spread in theocracy if u do not have a religion in a city?)

 

[Pfeffersack]

Probably playing answered question #3.After doing a revolution, in two of those no-religion-cities Christianity spread.I haven't touched the religious civics, so it is just because the government is overthrown for a round.

However, this indirectly supports my theory of Theocracy blocking any kind of natural spreads.For dozends of turns, those cities didn't became Confucianist (my state), but one turn was enough to spread my own minor religion Christianity there.

Yes, it is still no proof for Theocracy blocking the natural spread of you state religion...but it quite strange that none of my new cities became Confucianist anymore after switching to Theocracy.

 

[Bobothemonk]

LOL LMAO

It is so simple


Your new cities did not have your state religion in them, they had no religion, therefore those 2 cities WERE NOT!!!!!!!! AFFECTED BY YOUR THEOCRACY CIVIC, making them open to missionaries and natural spreading, no bug. VERY VERY SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bobothemonk

 

[Bobothemonk]

also, "no non state spread" litterally mean

"no non state spread in cities with your state religion in them"

Bobothemonk

 

[ZippyRiver]

Which makes you wonder why they would word it that way. I believe the intention is for Theoracy to work as stated. If only your state rel can spread, but that only applies to cities that ALREADY HAVE your state rel, then the entire comment is irrelevant.

In my current game, I am on an aussie sized island, all by myself. I have also founded 4 rel. (Jud, Conf, Chri, Hindu). Hindu is my state rel. I am running theoracy. I also had to get 3 cities built to complete a cultural ring for the island.

In not a single one did ANY rel spread that was non-state. In ALL 3, Hinduism spread. One it took 5-6 turns before it spread there, yet it was the state rel that did spread.

I would be more inclinded to think that an error was made and that the player did not have any state rel chosen. I have never seen Theoracy fail in what it is suppose to do. Do you have a save you could post showing this bug?

 

[TripleGemini]

As stated before religious civics only affect cities with a religion. So, Theocracy absolutely DOES stop spreading of non-state religions to cities WITH state religion. If you have a city with no state religion then described occurance can very well happen.

Unless... you have founded the other religions as well and are sending the missionaries yourself (or so it seems). I just finished spreading a second religion that I founded to all my cities while using Theocracy... and the state religion was already present in all cities.

 

[ZippyRiver]

Really?, I tried to spread using my own missionaries in my current game and it would not let me. Perhaps just a couple of bad dice rolls. I can certainly try again. I have founded 4. Or better yet, as I don't want to have to do a re-load back after a test, you try. Here is a good save for testing. Feel free to finish it out. It's a "challenging" position.

 

[EdwardTking]

It seems to me that the best way to avoid this is to send a preferred religion missionary out with the settler, and convert city as soon as created.

 

[meatwad4289]

if u found several religions then does that enable you to see anyone who has any of those religions or just the ones that u have as a state religion. For example im currently playing a hot seat multiplayer game,(just so i can control 2 empires) one civ i own discovered Confusionism and Islam its state religion is Islam, the other civ i control discovered Taoism, Juadism, and Christianity, its state is Judiaism.

So far, the other Civs are Either muslims, Jews, Hindus, or Buddists. so to restate my question. If I founded it, can i see their cities or do i have to foudn it and have it as my state religion?

 

[TripleGemini]

Really?, I tried to spread using my own missionaries in my current game and it would not let me. Perhaps just a couple of bad dice rolls. I can certainly try again. I have founded 4. Or better yet, as I don't want to have to do a re-load back after a test, you try. Here is a good save for testing. Feel free to finish it out. It's a "challenging" position.

I did have to send in 2 missionaries to one of my cities... but, other than that one, they spread quite easily. Even in the cities that already had 2 other religions present. (I only wish I had built an Islamic monastary while i had the chance... then I could spread that one... gotta get them spread around to get the benefits of Free Religion)

 

[TripleGemini]

If I founded it, can i see their cities or do i have to foudn it and have it as my state religion?

As far as I can tell... you have to found it and have it as your state religion. Don't forget, that when you go to the Free Religion civic that you no longer have a state religion and you loose that benefit.

 

[trundle]

I'll try that when I get a chance, but I think I tried something that might be just as good.

This was the set up:

I had three cities each connected via road. The capitol was the holy city of Judaism and the other cities had no religion. However, I did NOT have a state religion set. Meaning that basically Judaism in my capitol should have mimicked a foreign religion that spread into my empire before I selected theocracy. I decided to make it the holy city because I felt that might increase the chances the religion spreads.

I ran two tests. I had paganism selected first and skipped turns until the religion spread (took a loooong time). Then I reloaded an auto-save from a few turns back and skipped a couple of turns to verify that the religion would spread again. It did. So I reloaded the auto-save again and this time changed to theocracy. This time Judaism did not spread.

I'll test out your setup if you like but I think my test is pretty much the same thing. The only reason I used just one religion was because it cut down on the variables, and as far as I can tell you don't actually need a state religion set to stop the spread of non-state religions. In my experience all religions act as non-state religion unless they are the state religion.

This is kind of a shot in the dark, but I wonder if there's an oddity here around not having a state religion under Theocracy. I could see how the programming logic (intentional or not) might make it so that if no state religion is declared, cities with no religion are affected by Theocracy (e.g. no spread is allowed). If there is a state religion, though, and the cities don't contain it, they might be exempt?

Like I said, just a shot in the dark. I may try futzing around with it in the World Builder tomorrow.