Thoughts about some tweaks

migck · Mar 15, 2012

Leoreth said:
Oh, your actual thanks should go to onedreamer who collected the necessary files and made a guide how to add them to RFC vanilla to install VD; all I did was following his instructions without much double-checking and uploading the result so everyone else would simply have to unpack a RAR file

So I can't say if there's anything else that's not right. Can you upload your corrected CivInfos XML so I can bring the VD patch up to date?

Your Python code for the American UP looks correct, by the way.

I hope I can, I've removed the new UU and UB, let's hope my tagging of changes has been methodical enough for me to completely undo them.

I've been looking to your changes in Dawn of Civilization... wow, that is really a fine amount of work! I'll play with it for now, and keep on picking ideas for what my ideal RFC mod should have (and enjoying it, of course!). I just hope that in the far future I'll be able to make something which can at least compare to your work. Thank you for your work!

Leoreth · Mar 15, 2012

Great to see you like it

If you have any questions on how to properly import features from there, just ask.

And thanks for the upload.

Lone Wolf · Mar 16, 2012

Are there any other tweaks made by you or someone else you can't play RFC without?

AI now builds units at 85% of their hammer cost instead of 110% on Monarch, and at 80% instead of 100% at Emperor. In compensation for the human, it now receives less bonuses on unit upgrading.

Plague disabled.

Victoria is now much more willing to open borders, trade techs ("British free trade" theme) and builds slightly more units.

Asoka and Qin are slightly dumbed down, since without plague they often got too strong.

Would it be advisable to add her back (or why was she left out)?

Rhye thought she looks like an alien.

- Rome: Added Cataphract UU, Hippodrome UB (+Byzantium)

I'd probably give the same to Greece, too, then, what's with Byzantium being a medieval child of Rome and Greece.

Leoreth · Mar 16, 2012

Lone Wolf said:
Rhye thought she looks like an alien.

Really?

Lone Wolf · Mar 16, 2012

Really?

Yep.

migck · Mar 17, 2012

I'm having some ideas about the Arabian UP: it spreads the player's state religion and automatically builds the corresponding temple and cathedral in newly acquired cities, but not in player-built ones. Since each cathedral needs four temples to be built by normal means, this power virtually prevents the player from building cathedrals from the state religion elsewhere due to the required temple count skyrocketing after a few conquests.
I'm currently using an onBuildingBuilt event in UniquePowers.py, called in the CvRFCEventHandler.py for the Arabian player, which creates a cathedral in the city when the state religion temple is built. But I see this method as kind of cheap, possibly exploitable for cultural and domination wins by easily getting cathedrals everywhere, and even piling up cathedrals by changing the state religion and building new temples. Not to mention the method isn't perfect, what if they acquire a city through trade that has a temple already, or built the temple before its religion was the state one, etc..
Ideally, I'd like to implement a rule change for the Arabians so that the cathedral of their state religion still has to be built normally, but each one requires only one temple instead of four. They would still have an easier time getting cathedrals in their cities, but at least they will have to work on it.
Or alternatively, I could change the rules on all cathedrals so that all of them require just a temple, but that would look kind of... dangerous.

Can this be implemented someway through Python? Or would I have to look into the SDK to make a game rule change targeted to the Arabians?

Leoreth · Mar 18, 2012

It looks like there is no Python callback for building requirements, so this would require DLL modding afaik.

DC123456789 · Mar 18, 2012

One cathedral per temple? I'd hate to see how much culture people running free religion get...

migck · Mar 18, 2012

DC123456789 said:
One cathedral per temple? I'd hate to see how much culture people running free religion get...

One cathedral per temple, but only for cathedrals of the current state religion, so it wouldn't work that way under free religion. Plus cathedrals are quite expensive at 300 :hammers:

, so it should be somewhat balanced.
Too bad it requires DLL modding... even if I could implement it, the way I see it is that modders have to recompile the entire DLL every time they implement a change to it? SDK modding must be a time consuming hobby indeed, with the amount of changes I'd love to add and test, it would take me months before I got something playable.

Ok, I've summed up some new changes, and now with proper credits after I looked up where I got the idea from. So my thanks go to karadoc and PieceOfMind

Spoiler :

Leoreth · Mar 18, 2012

Yep, every DLL change needs a recompile. However, after you've set up your compiler, it's a simple command equivalent to saving your file, and only costs < 1 minute unless you're rebuilding the entire DLL.

srpt · Mar 19, 2012

compiling is a great time to make coffee...

Leoreth · Mar 19, 2012

morff · Mar 19, 2012

Leoreth said:
Spoiler :

classic

Thor Macklin · Mar 23, 2012

Dangit I think you just obsoleted all my game file changes.

Anyway another suggestion. Give the Skirmisher ALL of the retreating upgrades. Really helps the AI survive longer and much easier for dealing with barbarians

migck · Mar 24, 2012

Thor Macklin said:
Dangit I think you just obsoleted all my game file changes.

Anyway another suggestion. Give the Skirmisher ALL of the retreating upgrades. Really helps the AI survive longer and much easier for dealing with barbarians

You mean Flanking I + II and Tactics?
I've turned them into longbowmen replacements instead, with 7 strength and retaining their extra first strike chance. I wonder if that might be too much though...

And another thing, I've left Serfdom at -1 :commerce:

from Town and +1 :hammers:

,+1

from Fort, and the AI is building them all over the place! Together with Varietas Delectat, which changes the Forts' looks depending on the territory they're in, it really is a change I like, and the best part is that the AI is now preserving its forests to build forts on them, so no more deforested planet before 1500AD

Tomorrow's Dawn · Mar 24, 2012

migck said:
And after seeing the influence maps, I think it should be Japan instead of China the one who gets Korea's UU and UB, or maybe one should go to each?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=354241 ?

Historically, Japan was more "influenced" by Corea, which transmitted mainland technology and techniques in art & craft to Japan for thousands of years.

The Japanese stability map is supposed to represent early 20th century conquests so it would NOT make sense if you gave Japan Corean UUs & UBs.
Also, the stability maps in vanilla RFC don't always accurately provide the "influence" partitions that make sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelang_Commandery

^Above is an example.
300+ years of longer-lived control over much of the Corean Peninsula (Lelang Commandery <Han Dynasty-Three Kingdoms Period)
30+ years of colonial rule that was met with intense resistance (Japanese occupation)

Which one seems more "influential"?

In any case, my opinion is that you should give neither China or Japan their UUs & UBs, and try to add Corea in by themselves.

Here's a link to something that might help:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=413015

If you absolutely have to give civs in vanilla RFC UUs & UBs from civs that weren't included, then give it to China.
By the 1500s-1600s, when the Hwacha was ubiquitous, Chinese & Corean gunpowder warfare was much more predicated on artillery
(i.e. various rocket arrow mechanisms & cannons) while the Japanese generally focused on the infantry aspect
(arabesques) though cannons are noted to have been used in the Sengoku civil war preceding the Imjin War of the late 1500s (Japanese invasion of Corea).

That said, Corea is playable in both DoC & Civs in Abundance so perhaps you should take a page from there.

DC123456789 · Mar 24, 2012

Just wondering, Tomorrow's Dawn, why do you use "Corea" instead of "Korea"?

Tomorrow's Dawn · Mar 24, 2012

DC123456789 said:
Just wondering, Tomorrow's Dawn, why do you use "Corea" instead of "Korea"?

http://www.medeasmemoirs.com/corea-with-a-c/
http://goldsea.com/Air/Issues/Corea/corea.html

usi · Mar 25, 2012

Dah, OK, I admit that sometimes I have been reading RFC threads.

I terribly hate some seemingly Korean people making cheap lies about Japan. You know, Non-Koreans rarely ever use terms like Imjin War, since "Imjin" is comprehensible only to Koreans.

Tomorrow's Dawn said:
Historically, Japan was more "influenced" by Corea

Korea brought culture to Japan. That's true.
But you failed to mention that the "culture" was mostly Chinese culture, as we can see clearly from many old temples and shrines in Japan.

On the other hand, Kofun, a sign of Japanese culture, were found in Korea.

While I do agree that China is more appropriate than Japan for having Korean UU and UB (given that Korea had a flag stating, "Proud Vassal of Great China"), I find it laughable that you say Japan was more "influenced" by Korea.

And "C" or "K" stuff. It's just one of many stupid nationalistic rumors in Korea (I can list them if you wish). Korea became a part of Japan, so why bother renaming a part of your country? In case it became independent? I always wonder why some people are able to believe such nonsense stuffs without any evidence.

Tomorrow's Dawn · Mar 25, 2012

usi said:
Dah, OK, I admit that sometimes I have been reading RFC threads.

I terribly hate some seemingly Korean people making cheap lies about Japan. You know, Non-Koreans rarely ever use terms like Imjin War, since "Imjin" is comprehensible only to Koreans.

For the record, I'm not Corean.
I also use the term Imjin War because it's more concise
compared to the alternatives available.

usi said:
Korea brought culture to Japan. That's true.
But you failed to mention that the "culture" was mostly Chinese culture, as we can see clearly from many old temples and shrines in Japan.

On the other hand, Kofun, a sign of Japanese culture, were found in Korea.

While I do agree that China is more appropriate than Japan for having Korean UU and UB (given that Korea had a flag stating, "Proud Vassal of Great China"), I find it laughable that you say Japan was more "influenced" by Korea.

While it is true that Corea brought Chinese culture to Japan, it has to be considered that Chinese culture was brought over in a Corean filter. If you wanted to ask me which cultures were likely directly influenced by China, via direct and regular contact, that would be Vietnam, Ryukyu & Corea. Japan was also influenced by China, but they got it from a second-hand source essentially via Corea most of the time. It's like the following scenario:

-There are three brothers (pre-Electricity for the sake of this example).
-Two of them don't maintain regular contact because of distance, while one of them is directly between them and equal in distance, serving as a perfect middleman.
-The western most brother asks the middle brother to deliver messages to the eastern most brother (no Writing).
"Ice cream avalanche in the desert happened today."
-The message is bound to get altered or lost in translation (essentially, this is how rumors in school and work spread)
-The middle brother talks to the eastern brother finally and delivers a message that's different from the original either because he forgot or he interpreted it differently.
"Yogurt tsunami in the mountains happened today."

Is my point. Coreans transmitted mainland (read: Chinese) culture and techniques to Japan. But how much of that left was Chinese? Barring Xu Fu, we have irregular trade contact and mingling between smugglers and pirates, and the descendants of the Qin, Han & Cao Wei Dynasties who settled in Japan (who by the times of their departures from China, migrated into Corea and lost much of their customs by the times they were taken in by the nascent Japanese states)

Also, I have not disregarded your point about Kofun pieces being found in Corea.
Some historians believe that Baekje was either a proto-Japanese community or a para-Japanese community lingering on the Peninsula, which suggests that for a long time, there was very close intertwined development and relations with Corea & Japan (why else would Yamato commit so many ships & troops during their brief foray against the Tang-Silla alliance?), which also does not disregard my support that most influences that were transmitted into Japan were Corean.

usi said:
And "C" or "K" stuff. It's just one of many stupid nationalistic rumors in Korea (I can list them if you wish). Korea became a part of Japan, so why bother renaming a part of your country? In case it became independent? I always wonder why some people are able to believe such nonsense stuffs without any evidence.

I agree with you about there being instances of abhorrent Corean nationalism (such as Corean claims that they created the samurai class or that Confucius was Corean).
Believe me, I give credit where it's due. I also never specified why exactly I spell it personally with a "C". If you read the blog article, you'd be able to find that there is an alternative reason to just plain nationalism to that naming scheme.

(Preference of spelling in some Romance languages)

Increased awareness of the mythical pre-Japanese Occupation C-spelling began during the 1992 Barcelona Olympics since Spain, Italy, and France have always used that spelling.

During the 2002 World Cup there was an even greater resurgence of signs and apparel denoting the Corea spelling.

This was partially because the World Cup audience was primarily an international one (that tends to use the C over the K). But it also had a nationalistic intent by a few dedicated supporters to promote the vision a someday pre-Occupation pre-divided Corea. One cannot overestimate Corean pride.

Thoughts about some tweaks

Señor de la guerra

Bofurin

Deity

Bofurin

Deity

Señor de la guerra

Bofurin

Deity

Señor de la guerra

Bofurin

Deist

Bofurin

Warlord

Warlord

Señor de la guerra

Heroes Never Die

Deity

Heroes Never Die

Shogun

Heroes Never Die

Similar threads