Time is finite
- Thread starter Tyrus888
- Start date
Sparrowhawk
The Builder
How good are you at math?
EDIT: Sorry, that was my smart-ass off the cuff response. Honestly, I couldn't give you a mathmatical explanation if I tried. See my next post...
EDIT: Sorry, that was my smart-ass off the cuff response. Honestly, I couldn't give you a mathmatical explanation if I tried. See my next post...
Perfection
The Great Head.
What level of Anthropic Principle do you believe in?
Sparrowhawk
The Builder
I have read Hawkins book. Are you aware of anything in it that answers either of my questions?
You might be thinking that time is a function of the universe and came into existence with the universe. Therefore time is finite. But could not have there been other universes before ours. perhaps an inifinite number of universes in succession. Could this be possible? Yes? No?
You might be thinking that time is a function of the universe and came into existence with the universe. Therefore time is finite. But could not have there been other universes before ours. perhaps an inifinite number of universes in succession. Could this be possible? Yes? No?
Sparrowhawk
The Builder
You're getting beyond the definition of 'time'. Picture our universe as a rubber ball made of time & space. There are potentially other balls, but their 'time' is not the same as our 'time'. They are independent. Also, these parallel universes do not exist in a continuum, therefore the idea of succession is moot.
Personally, I believe in an infinite number of universes that include all possibilities. Don't ask me to back that up with math though.
If this is not the calibre of argument you are looking for, I would suggest waiting for a response from another poster. I believe Col is an astrophysics prof... Try PMing him if you'd like.
Personally, I believe in an infinite number of universes that include all possibilities. Don't ask me to back that up with math though.
If this is not the calibre of argument you are looking for, I would suggest waiting for a response from another poster. I believe Col is an astrophysics prof... Try PMing him if you'd like.
Perfection
The Great Head.
i say finite, heres way.
Time is just a abstract human thought relating to a dimension we percieve, So without humans there is no time (Part of Anthropic Principle) modern astrophisists say that the universe is open ended meaning that the as time increases so does the area of the universe (Through entropy and universe mass mesurements and other data). This means that density must also decrease, humanity in any form will at least need some heat. As the universe's density decreases its heat must also go down until it is incapable of preforming any work whatsoever, humanity can not survive this and since they are a requirement for time via anthropic principle, time is finite
Time is just a abstract human thought relating to a dimension we percieve, So without humans there is no time (Part of Anthropic Principle) modern astrophisists say that the universe is open ended meaning that the as time increases so does the area of the universe (Through entropy and universe mass mesurements and other data). This means that density must also decrease, humanity in any form will at least need some heat. As the universe's density decreases its heat must also go down until it is incapable of preforming any work whatsoever, humanity can not survive this and since they are a requirement for time via anthropic principle, time is finite
Immortal
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Messages
- 5,950
Personally, I think the universe has "parallels" like Sparrowhawks idea of the other rubber balls. But I think the universe is a cycle, big bang, then the seperation, then it comes back together, big bang etc...
Just an opinion, dont ask me to back it up with fact
Just an opinion, dont ask me to back it up with fact
Perfection
The Great Head.
That would be a closed universe model which is not very likely in our universe
I think I'm pretty much with Perfection here. Time is a construction... a desciption. Without humanity, the need for construction vanishes.
Although, you can pretty much say this about everything else in the universe as well. The solipsism of such a belief is a little troubling.
Although, you can pretty much say this about everything else in the universe as well. The solipsism of such a belief is a little troubling.
In my humble opinion, time is finite.
After all, if we assume time is infinite, then there must have been a physical event in the infinite past. But if it happened an infinite time ago, time should never have reached today.
A more formal way to write this argument is:
A moment is the shortest time in which a movement of any (real) material object could be observed by us humans.
A. An infinite number of moments can never conclude. (There can always be one more moment in an endless series)
B. If there were an infinite number of moments before today, then today would have never arrived. For the present moment would be the one that concludes this infinite series of moments.
C. But today has arrived.
D. Therefore, there were only a finite number of moments before today. (Thus the universe had a beginning).
This argument was first proposed by St. Anselm hundreds of years ago.
After all, if we assume time is infinite, then there must have been a physical event in the infinite past. But if it happened an infinite time ago, time should never have reached today.
A more formal way to write this argument is:
A moment is the shortest time in which a movement of any (real) material object could be observed by us humans.
A. An infinite number of moments can never conclude. (There can always be one more moment in an endless series)
B. If there were an infinite number of moments before today, then today would have never arrived. For the present moment would be the one that concludes this infinite series of moments.
C. But today has arrived.
D. Therefore, there were only a finite number of moments before today. (Thus the universe had a beginning).
This argument was first proposed by St. Anselm hundreds of years ago.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Well before hand can also be explianed by big bang theory.
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
Time doesn't exist. It is an optical/mental illusion that our brains use to make sense of things. If you get really good at using your brain, you can move outside of time and see through it. That's my hint for today.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Exactly time without humans is nothing and since humanity cannot last forever time wise (See last post) than time must not either
Time, as we percieve it, is infinite. We will die long before time as we know it runs out. And as far as we know, time has existed forever, at least all of our lives.
And that, my friends, is time in a nutshell.
And that, my friends, is time in a nutshell.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Yes but perception is not at all using critical thinking, It's just a way of making sense of stuff in our brains, we can't understand it so we dismiss it as our perception.
arty: Woot 2000th post arty:[dance]
arty: Woot 2000th post arty:[dance]
Wait a minute. Time does not relate to humans only. Time is connected with any progress/movement/change whatever you call that. Anything that a moment ago was different from what it is now does exist in time. Stars are born and stars die. During their lives certain reactions take place inside them. So since the Big Bang time does exist. And as long as the universe expands we cannot say time is finite. Though humans often prefer to deal with something finite.
And then we are back to the old philosophical question...
WHEN A BIG OAK COLLAPSES AND GOES DOWN, RAVASHING IT'S WAY TO THE SOURIED GROUND, DOES THE CRASH NOISE EXIST AT ALL IF NO ONE'S THERE TO WITNESSES SUCH FALL?
Regards
...
WHEN A BIG OAK COLLAPSES AND GOES DOWN, RAVASHING IT'S WAY TO THE SOURIED GROUND, DOES THE CRASH NOISE EXIST AT ALL IF NO ONE'S THERE TO WITNESSES SUCH FALL?
Regards
...
