Time to build the bomb shelter? WW3 discussion thread

[Yeekim]

I guess the real reason nobody has kicked NK regime's ass yet is that no-one really wants to deal with the aftermath that would include 25 million starving North Koreans.

 

[Kyriakos]

^A re-united Korea won't be more pro-US than S.Korea is. For starters, there aren't christians in N.Korea, unlike the christian weirdness in S. Korea which even boasts circumcision (already barbaric by itself) when one becomes...18?

 

[Yeekim]

Was that last part really necessary?

As for the first part, my guess is both China and Russia consider present S.Korea too intolerably pro-US to ever touch their borders.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Was that last part really necessary?

As for the first part, my guess is both China and Russia consider present S.Korea too intolerably pro-US to ever touch their borders.

And the US would find the transformation of an allied S.Korea to a neutral Korea unacceptable.
As always, the big boys standing in the way of progress.

 

[Kyriakos]

Was that last part really necessary?

As for the first part, my guess is both China and Russia consider present S.Korea too intolerably pro-US to ever touch their borders.

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

 

[red_elk]

Not sure if you're in the usual propagandist mode or if you're that genuinely blind to what NK is.

NK regime is much less insane than it pretends to be. Although it's hard to understand for people who are in usual brainwashed zealot mode.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

NK regime is much less insane than it pretends to be. Although it's hard to understand for people who are in usual brainwashed zealot mode.

Depends on your definition of insane. It is a horrible place to live in unless you're a member of the party elite, and even then you have to really have to watch what to say and what emotions you're showing. It's pointlessly brutal inefficiency at its worst.
The foreign policy, such as it is, is motly inwards propaganda. It's only "not insane" in the sense that their threats aren't serious. It has been working fot the tiny privileged minority so far, but it's a very dangerous game in a world where the USA is led by a genuinely thin skinned idiot and a party whose ideology boils down to another brand of pontlessly brutal inefficiency. It's a very strange example of horseshoe theory.

 

[Yeekim]

And the US would find the transformation of an allied S.Korea to a neutral Korea unacceptable.
As always, the big boys standing in the way of progress.

As I mentioned, I doubt S.Korea actually wants 25 million impoverished N.Koreans even if they came "for free". I believe they'd want them even less, if the price was giving up their most valuable ally.
As for US finding it "unacceptable"... do you imagine them threatening war if S. Korea wished to withdraw from Mutual Defense Treaty? I somehow don't.

 

[Kyriakos]

As I mentioned, I doubt S.Korea actually wants 25 million impoverished N.Koreans even if they came "for free". I believe they'd want them even less, if the price was giving up their most valuable ally.
As for US finding it "unacceptable"... do you imagine them threatening war if S. Korea wished to withdraw from Mutual Defense Treaty? I somehow don't.

There are many other means to punish a country/people, if you can't declare war.

 

[red_elk]

Depends on your definition of insane. It is a horrible place to live in unless you're a member of the party elite, and even then you have to really have to watch what to say and what emotions you're showing. It's pointlessly brutal inefficiency at its worst.
The foreign policy, such as it is, is motly inwards propaganda. It's only "not insane" in the sense that their threats aren't serious. It has been working fot the tiny privileged minority so far, but it's a very dangerous game in a world where the USA is led by a genuinely thin skinned idiot and a party whose ideology boils down to another brand of pontlessly brutal inefficiency. It's a very strange example of horseshoe theory.

Insane in the sense that they would do the things which would harm themselves and not agree to the deals which they can benefit from.
NK is a problem which USA could help to resolve, but it is not much interested in resolving it.

 

[Akka]

NK regime is much less insane than it pretends to be. Although it's hard to understand for people who are in usual brainwashed zealot mode.

Yeah yeah, anyone who isn't blind enough to realize your permanent propaganda is brainwashed, blablabla.

 

[Yeekim]

There are many other means to punish a country/people, if you can't declare war.

Indeed.
Regardless, depicting the US as chief obstacle in the way of Korean unification is, imho, counterfactual nonsense.

 

[red_elk]

Yeah yeah, anyone who isn't blind enough to realize your permanent propaganda is brainwashed, blablabla.

Not anyone, only those who hallucinate about pro-Russian propaganda even in discussion about North Korea.

 

[Kyriakos]

Indeed.
Regardless, depicting the US as chief obstacle in the way of Korean unification is, imho, counterfactual nonsense.

Why would you think the US would itself be ok with allowing S.Korea to stop being a wholly tied ally? A more independent Korea could play its own games in the region; it isn't a small country. If united it would have a population (iirc) analogous to Germany, or at least France. And Korea doesn't have any war-criminal past to use diplomatically either. if anything it was itself a victim of imperialism.
I don't see a reason to think the US govs would do anything to push to a re-unification of the Koreas as things stand. It would only erode their local sphere of influence. Would be great if they were humanists, but yeah, they aren't.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Yeah, some are not even human.

Because an army that can't move is no longer an "attacking force." With constant uncontested overflights along the roads the Iraqi army was reduced to going over terrain, where they were destroyed from the air anyway, or hunkering in place.

You are correct that "Kuwait was already invaded." That happened because Kuwait had no significant military to resist with (South Korea does) and US forces had to be deployed before they could respond (there are two air wings permanently stationed in South Korea that would be responding within minutes of any incursion by North Korea, which is a significant difference).

Shortly after crossing the border any North Korean units that were not directly engaged with South Korean forces would be getting cut to pieces from the air. Any artillery that was firing into South Korea would be inviting return fire that would silence them. That would be the end of any progress for their invasion, and it would just be a question of time before they were in full retreat. You can't fight a ground war in the face of complete air superiority. It's not a realistic possibility, and everyone on the ground would know it.

Which brings us back around to there would be absolutely no need for a nuclear weapon here, tactical or otherwise.

You are obviating NK air defenses here which would make direct air support very dangerous in the first days of combat until they are suppressed. And (again) dont forget that we are speaking about a very short period of time. A shock attack. Hours or days at most. Aircraft are limited in number and payload and sorties per day. You need a long period of time to destroy a whole army from the air, like we have seen in Gulf war, Balkan wars and such. Even with massive airpower. True you could make enemy advance more difficult attacking roads, bridges, and disminishing his combat capacity striking supply depots and command centers first, but i suppose NK have all those well buried in bunkers and caves. I think ROK army and land defenses would be a much more important factor here than airpower, at least in the first stage of the war.

 

[Akka]

You are obviating NK air defenses here which would make direct air support very dangerous in the first days of combat until they are suppressed. And (again) dont forget that we are speaking about a very short period of time. A shock attack. Hours or days at most. Aircraft are limited in number and payload and sorties per day. You need a long period of time to destroy a whole army from the air, like we have seen in Gulf war, Balkan wars and such.

His literally first sentence is about how an army that is immobilized is no longer an attacking force. Air defense might hamper/slow down the bombing in the north's side, but it won't be of much use to protect the supposed breach of NK army in the South. The air support don't need to obliterate the NK forces, it just have to pin it down and disrupt it for a time, after which reinforcements arrive/the air defense are suppressed/the attrition takes its toll.

And again and again and again and again and again (because it seems you're very very very intent to ignore it), how do you suppose the NK army would overwhelm the SK one, which is nearly as big and much more technologically advanced ? And not only overwhelm it, but in a matter of hours ?

Not anyone, only those who hallucinate about pro-Russian propaganda even in discussion about North Korea.

No need to "hallucinate" when you try to rewrite reality about China, NK and Russia just so you can cast all blame on the US. Business as usual in propagandaland.

 

[red_elk]

No need to "hallucinate" when you try to rewrite reality about China, NK and Russia just so you can cast all blame on the US. Business as usual in propagandaland.

Reality cannot be rewritten. But you can imagine your own "reality" where US cannot be blamed for anything at all, and attack people who dare to disagree with it. Business as usual in land of deluded zealots.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

And again and again and again and again and again (because it seems you're very very very intent to ignore it), how do you suppose the NK army would overwhelm the SK one, which is nearly as big and much more technologically advanced ? And not only overwhelm it, but in a matter of hours ?

Re-read my posts if you want to know, it is there. Not going to repeat it AGAIN.

And btw, do you think NK has not mobile SAMs and AA? Add to that fixed SAM sites near the frontier which may have enough range to cover until Seoul airspace. NK have inverted lots of resources in getting modern air defenses.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Re-read my posts if you want to know, it is there. Not going to repeat it AGAIN.

Good idea, since it has been unsupported nonsense every time and hasn't convinced anyone of anything other than the obvious fact that you don't understand the subject at hand.

 

[Saldor010]

NK have inverted lots of resources in getting modern air defenses.

But no resources to spare for their starving, poorly equipped soldiers.