Tired of 2k's marketing methods

[Bad Brett]

I've been playing Civilization since 1993. Even though I don't write here very often anymore, I still visit the page every day to see if there are any news about the Civ franchise. I almost screamed out my happiness when Civ 5 was announced and I applauded the changes that were made, such as the hexagon tiles.

But then something happened. I completely lost all my enthusiasm. All the joy is gone.

To be honest, I've always considered the average Civ player to be a bit more intelligent than the average ...Tekken player. I therefore believed that it would be very hard to trick Civ players into buying junk. Well, that's what 2K Games is trying to make them do.

What do we actually know about Civ 5? How does the battles system work? How is the tech tree designed? How has the AI been improved?

Five podcasts have been released. They talk about graphics and music and "cool" features, but not about the actual gameplay.

ET: The balance of art and realism, planned terrain and random, fresh worlds with each new game… Building an engine that expertly executes all of these elements is incredible in its own right. But Firaxis didn’t stop just with that aspect of the engine. In Civilization V, there is an entirely different view beyond the world map – when you approach leaders to wage war, negotiate peace, or barter for important resources – you enter a completely different view, and its visual fidelity is astounding. The way the leader engine works and was built is completely separate from the “main” view of the game.

It may only be me, but I can't stand this. It sounds so pretentious and unnatural. 2K try so hard to make it sound like they and Firaxis are working like slaves to make us satisfied. Then the add Steam, announce DLC's months before the game is to be released, they offer several different "deluxe editions" with different content, so that the hardcore game will have to pay several times for the same game in order to get everything. And still, we have no idea if the game is going to be fun to play.

Civ 4: Col was a disaster, Railroads! possible even worse. And now we get this mess. I really miss Microprose and Brian Reynolds.

 

[Ahriman]

What do we actually know about Civ 5?

Lots! We know a ton about the changes in mechanics

We know about 1 unit per tile. We know about ranged bombardment. We know about changes in movement rates.
We know about city states.
We know a fair amount about the tech tree, and some about the social policy tree.
We know the factions, and their UUs and special abilities (though not what most of these do).
We know about changes to how culture works.
We know about changes to how gold works (no more commerce or slider; gold and beakers come directly)
etc. etc.

I think your expectations are unreasonable; you expect to see the full tech tree with every tech, and all the unit stats and details of the combat algorithms out before the game is even released?

In what game has that ever been done?

 

[Commander Bello]

Lots! We know a ton about the changes in mechanics

We know about 1 unit per tile. We know about ranged bombardment. We know about changes in movement rates.
We know about city states.
We know a fair amount about the tech tree, and some about the social policy tree.
We know the factions, and their UUs and special abilities (though not what most of these do).
We know about changes to how culture works.
We know about changes to how gold works (no more commerce or slider; gold and beakers come directly)
etc. etc.

I think your expectations are unreasonable; you expect to see the full tech tree with every tech, and all the unit stats and details of the combat algorithms out before the game is even released?

In what game has that ever been done?

We may know a lot about changes, but we don't know much about the resulting effects, nor about the intended effects.
Especially we don't know anything whether the results meet the intention.

 

[PieceOfMind]

How much we know about the game and what way you want to describe it is highly subjective at the moment.

I say we know very little so far. We know pretty much zero about multiplayer and modding, almost nothing about the DLC that will be released (the amount we know about DLC could be summed up in about four or less sentences).
Modding and multiplayer alone make up, in my mind, about 50% of what needs to be known. About 10% is about Steam, and the other 40% is the game and its mechanics.

That's probably a strange way of looking at it, eh?

I must agree though that I've found the podcasts so far to be pretty pointless and IMO boring. In respect to the presenters though, it's the actual content that's boring, not the style. A lot of what is dicussed is very technical and not usually the thing that most gamers or even civ players (if you'd call them gamers) care much about.

 

[Vael]

Especially we don't know anything whether the results meet the intention.

How can that possibly be known without playing the game oneself?

 

[hk2717]

What do we actually know about Civ 5? How does the battles system work? How is the tech tree designed? How has the AI been improved?

Five podcasts have been released. They talk about graphics and music and "cool" features, but not about the actual gameplay.

We have far more information than just 5 podcasts. We have much detailed information on the new battle system, the tech tree, the improved AI and much more. You say you are a fan and you check the website everyday, and you have not a single clue about all these?

Paid DLC is how the (mainstream) game industry works nowadays and it is the future. Starcraft2 even charges on a monthly basis in some regions, just like online games such as World of Warcraft.

 

[Greybriar]

....Paid DLC is how the (mainstream) game industry works nowadays and it is the future. Starcraft2 even charges on a monthly basis in some regions, just like online games such as World of Warcraft.

Paid DLC is a marketing ploy that will continue only as long as consumers pay for it.

Activision Blizzard's scheme isn't finalized yet and from what I've read about it may never be implemented let alone successful.

 

[Aramel]

How can that possibly be known without playing the game oneself?

Exactly. Perhaps you feel like there is not enough information out there currently for you to make up your mind whether to buy Civ. This is completely understandable. So what do you do?

Well, good news! You do not have to buy it yet. I guarantee we will know everything about the game a week after it is released. Hell, we will probably know just about everything a week before it is released, so if you really want the pre-order bonus just wait until then. I don't really see what the problem is.

 

[12agnar0k]

I actually know quite a lot about the game and its mecahnics, pay attention and read every single bit of information

 

[Aramel]

Paid DLC is a marketing ploy that will continue only as long as consumers pay for it.

This is not actually how markets work, I will just mention. Paid DLC will continue as long as consumers find it worth their money. And--breaking news--consumers find it worth their money. That is why they buy it.

 

[Tee Kay]

Paid DLC is how the (mainstream) game industry works nowadays and it is the future.

Fruit the future.

 

[isndl]

I actually know quite a lot about the game and its mecahnics, pay attention and read every single bit of information

I wouldn't say you know a lot about the game and its mechanics until you know how to exploit them.

 

[Commander Bello]

I wouldn't say you know a lot about the game and its mechanics until you know how to exploit them.

This.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I actually know quite a lot about the game and its mecahnics, pay attention and read every single bit of information

Perhaps you would like to describe to me how a typical game will play out then? What you now know is heavily dissected, examined, scrutinised tidbits.

I know most of the rules of chess (I'm still a bit uncertain on the "en passe" or whatever it's called) but I surely cannot tell you things that even a beginner player would know.

IMO the situation is akin to saying one knows what a first person shooter will be like after seeing 20 in-game screenshots.

 

[CoolLizy]

It's about two months to the game's release. I'm not sure why we should know everything about the game yet.

 

[Ahriman]

Perhaps you would like to describe to me how a typical game will play out then?

Perhaps you can point to the other PC games on the market where the details of how a game will play out are well known before the game is released? Maybe Starcraft, because it has been beta'ed to death, but not many others.

And I bet I could do a much better job of explaining how a typical game will play out of Civ5 than we could for most games.

"I begin the game with a single settler and a lone warrior.
I found a city, and start to explore the world.
My city slowly grows, and the population works the surrounding tiles, bringing in food, production and gold.
I start researching technologies, and build a worker to start improving my terrain with farms, mines and trading posts
You build a settler to send off and found a second city.
As the city produces culture, my borders expand and I gain access to more tiles.
I build more warriors, and then archers and spearmen once I have enough tech.
I link my cities with a road, which costs me maintenance but bring in trade income between the cities.
When I get enough culture, I unlock the Honor social policy, to help me out against barbarian invaders and later to boost my military.
I discover an iron resource, which will allow me to build a limited number of swordsmen, who are superior warriors
etc. etc."

Could you say even this much about, say, Elemental?
Or Demigod, before it came out?

 

[Dedrytus]

It's about two months to the game's release. I'm not sure why we should know everything about the game yet.

We should know how many DLCs (how many versions of game) will be annouced till relase. And what type of DLCs? Now we have additional Civs and maps. Maybe next week they will tell us: "New type of victory! Only this week!" or "Are you bored with maps we preapred for you? This new random map generator will give you lot of fun. Only 20€".

I want to buy this product, but I am... I am so confused.

 

[GoGerbilGo!]

To be honest, I've always considered the average Civ player to be a bit more intelligent than the average ...Tekken player. I therefore believed that it would be very hard to trick Civ players into buying junk. Well, that's what 2K Games is trying to make them do.

Sometimes, it is not from lack of intelligence we continue to hold onto a relationship. Sometimes it is pathological. A young boy suffering from battered gamer syndrome perhaps deserves our pity, not scorn.



To be honest, I expect that I will find myself annoyed by the battle mechanics, as I have been in each of the previous iterations. And I will be annoyed with the shallowness of aspects of trade, diplomacy, intelligence, city management, corruption, economy, game aesthetics, limits on moddability, border control, and so on. But I keep coming back because civilization is the closest there is to the game I want to play, but one no one will make. Ah, if only I had spare millions.



I only learned about CivV earlier this week. And I was pretty excited. But reading through this board since that discovery has dampened my enthusiasm. But what am I saying? I'm still buying it.

 

[Commander Bello]

To be honest, I expect that I will find myself annoyed by the battle mechanics, as I have been in each of the previous iterations. And I will be annoyed with the shallowness of aspects of trade, diplomacy, intelligence, city management, corruption, economy, game aesthetics, limits on moddability, border control, and so on. But I keep coming back because civilization is the closest there is to the game I want to play, but one no one will make. Ah, if only I had spare millions.

Well put.

 

[Tomice]

To be honest, I expect that I will find myself annoyed by the battle mechanics, as I have been in each of the previous iterations. And I will be annoyed with the shallowness of aspects of trade, diplomacy, intelligence, city management, corruption, economy, game aesthetics, limits on moddability, border control, and so on. But I keep coming back because civilization is the closest there is to the game I want to play, but one no one will make. Ah, if only I had spare millions.

Nice! I wouldn't see it so pessimistic but yes, I think the same sometimes...

BTW, i still owe you a comment on your combat model