Tired of 2k's marketing methods

[Earthling]

In what game has that ever been done?

Actually, many RTS's have released about all the info you could want before release.

As to the OP - while it is still uncertain what we'll actually get in civ5, I do agree how it's been marketed has been rather immaturely. One problem that I guess 2k didn't anticipate was the huge backlash by random people over Steam, arguing over that or reneging proposals or whatever has caused a lot of trouble. I think some others have complained about the kind of condescending, American-centric themes in various info blurbs released. But it's not a big market shooter game to advertise anyway, didn't do a public Beta or anything but that's not entirely expected again, and at least people have heard/are familiar enough with the franchise, so I'd say the process has been average as a whole.

 

[ShaqFu]

Still, we know a lot about the basics of how Civ5 will work, because we know how Civ4 works.

This is likely why there's not much info. You already know how the game's going to go, so why bother releasing stuff like "In Civ5 you'll build Settlers and try to expand your empire" or "In Civ5 you can use Workers to improve land"?

I think the reason so much is held back is due to a merciless amount of tweaking. There's no point in saying "this is what Social Policies are like!" in March, then scrapping it by May. Same reason developers don't like putting out alpha screenshots - they just create false impressions of the final product.

From what I saw at PAX, the game looks very good, and I'm sure there are good reasons why they're not telling us what they're not telling us. I remember the presenters not being able to discuss Wonders because they didn't know what would make it into the final game at the time. Please put away your tinfoil hats and wait; Firaxis isn't putting up a shadowy veil of secrecy about Civ5 as they concoct plans to corrupt your favorite series while trying to enslave the world.

 

[Ahriman]

Actually, many RTS's have released about all the info you could want before release.

Examples please?
There might be a unit roster of a couple of dozen units, but "all you could want to know about an RTS" is pretty wide.

I think of all the data compiled in websites like www.coh-stats.com and www.dowcodex.com
(both of which seem to be down now) on things like armor penetration, weapon range, damage and cooldown, effectiveness of weapons vs different armor types, and so forth.

Or the detailed descriptions that exist for Civ4 on exactly how healing works, or how the combat calculator works, or trade route yield calculation, etc.

None of this kind of stuff is normally known before release, and it usually requires digging around in game files to know for sure.

 

[Tylerryan79]

Im fine with them releasing info in small tid bits, as long as its done in a predictable and timely fashion. The podcasts and community features have been ok, I do like to read/listen to them, but theres really nothing else to read/listen to begin with . I think they are due for a new one, hopefully today sometime soon!

 

[lietkynes]

I agree, the podcasts are boring, they're only focused on graphics/audio and say nothing about the gameplay.

I mean, it's not like we have been playing Civ for the last 15 years because of the shiny graphics

 

[bjbrains]

Well remember that these podcasts were done many months in advance, so necessity dictates that they focus on the aspects of the game that are most finalized or least likely to change first. The gameplay ones will come, but they will have been done more recently, as everything is finalized.

 

[brianshapiro]

Is 2k using justin bieber to market Civ5 or something

 

[Earthling]

Examples please?
There might be a unit roster of a couple of dozen units, but "all you could want to know about an RTS" is pretty wide.

I did not say all of this was released for civilization 4. However, RTS games like those by Blizzard, such as Starcraft II, did release just about "everything" - not just unit stats, but armor, cooldown, etc... as well. The Command and Conquer series was pretty decent about this, and various modern/fad RTSs like Supreme Commanders still had much more substantial information releases or Betas compared to civ5. And that's only in one genre - shooter games I do grant don't release as much but even some of them have had lots of pre-release information.

 

[Ahriman]

Starcraft 2 has released a ton of info. I do not recall C&C games doing much more than releasing a list of units in the game.

They were also very non-innovative games in general, so it was easy for them to release the handful of new mechanics in a game. Whereas Civ5 is making many changes to its predecessor - and is a much more complex game than a cookie-cutter RTS.

 

[AlpsStranger]

EDIT:*sigh* Nevermind.

Should I start hating Civ5 now so that I can post without having the red letters show up?

 

[johny smith]

Well I may sound like smart.... when I say this but the more I hear about the actual changes to the gameplay the less I want to buy it. Just does not seem worth it to me.

But the more I hear about the actual program's performance the more I am interested. For one a 64 bit version. The second is whether or not the graphics engine allows more modability. Maybe I am just a sucker on this part though.

Maybe the silence actual helps to sell more games. I think it has been the case for many games non civ related. The games were not really bad that I can think of, but I would of considered other games had I known more about both products.

The way the idea it is advertised (regardless how bad or good the gameplay is)and bling is what draws people in that have no clue about the game. I mean did the more cleavage in the case of CivRev's Cleopatra gain 2k profits?

 

[ori]

EDIT:*sigh* Nevermind.

Should I start hating Civ5 now so that I can post without having the red letters show up?

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[Bad Brett]

Someone told me that most copies of a game is sold within the first weeks and that the goal with copy protection is to delay the cracked versions, even though they know that they can't stop them. It takes much longer than a couple weeks to fully understand the game mechanics. What really shows in the beginning are beautiful graphics. It's more important to make a game look fun than to actually be fun. It feels as Civ is going down the same path.

I'm not saying that the game won't be good, I'm just critizing the fact that they're treating us like we were complete idiots. I also fear that this may backfire in the long run, because I know that I'm not the only one who is getting tired of this. I strongly believe that they are using the wrong methods if their goal is to improve future sales.

And no, I don't believe that we know A LOT about the game mechanics. Okay, so any unit can turn into a boat now? I guess that could be fun if you want to cross a lake or something. But how fun will it be when every ocean tile is occupied by floating tanks?

Will the AI still have unfair bonuses, such as beginning with 3 settlers and building wonders at half the time?

If every unit can move two tiles, how will the terrain affect the movemant rate? How will ZOC work? Will the battles still follow the paper-rock-scissor system?

I remember when Civ III came out. The web page contained information about all the special units and the leaders well before the game came out. Now 99% of the information is completely irrelevant.

And of course, I do realize that I may have missed some of the information. But what really matters is what information 2k want us to have, and that information should be of course be presented on the their website.

 

[V. Soma]

we know some tidbits:

Okay, so any unit can turn into a boat now? I guess that could be fun if you want to cross a lake or something. But how fun will it be when every ocean tile is occupied by floating tanks?

Floating combat units will be treated as civilians, so you can stack them on the water tile, and escort them with ONE combat ship.

How will ZOC work?

Units will be able to move one (instead of 2 or more) when adjacent to enemy unit.

But what really matters is what information 2k want us to have, and that information should be of course be presented on the their website.

I agree that the official website is... umm, lacking info... should be better...

We have our Confirmed features page, and there is AriochIV's analyst page,
and we have time... to wait for the game...

 

[Pyrkaige]

Since when does every piece of information have to be presented by a company on their website about a game, before it's released? Very few big games are presented that way. Official websites generally have basic pre-release info about how the game works and some of it's special features, not every little number of terrain movement or ZOC specifics.

The thing to remember is that Civ V is the 5th game in a well-known series. If it was a new game, they could have lots of articles talking about the basics of gameplay. But for something like this, everyone already knows the basics of gameplay. So it comes down presenting a lot of fluff. The tiny numbers and machinations of gameplay matter for those of us who play Civilization games on a hardcore level, but aren't really the sort of pre-release info that sells the game or not.

This is the dance of pre-release PR, and they have to release most of the real info via publications, since the entire electronic game industry is connected intimately between the game publishers, and the "journalists" who cover them. It's just under 2 months until the game is released, and no doubt many more publications will have their own "exclusive preview" of parts of the game between now and then, and more of these gameplay pieces will be filled in.

The PR is just to get people excited about the game by release. After that, it will continue to sell (or not) based on the actual gameplay and support provided to the game -- not whether or not a specific piece of information about the game was on some marketing website 3 months before release.