Tired of 2k's marketing methods

[Disgustipated]

I'm not defending 2k here, I'm against DLC and all that. but I don't see how they can fix this problem. They can tell you the game is fun to play, but would you believe them?

The truth is, no one will know if the game is fun to play until it comes out. Just be patient. If you aren't sure, wait for reviews before buying (what I'll probably do). I too am worried the big publishers are only catering to the masses, and have dumbed the game down civrev style.

 

[Zhahz]

WoW's latest expansion will ship...nobody knows but most likely between sept and nov. It's in beta now. NDA dropped a few weeks ago. There are videos, discussion, etc - tons of info flying. Bliz knows anything WoW will kill, they have zero to fear from letting info out early, it's like a nonstop advertising blitz for months. Bliz IS abnormal in that they do very lengthy betas and drop NDAs early. Bliz generally releases excellent stuff and has nothing to fear from being open.

Elemental has been in beta a while - you got access to the beta if you pre-order (marketing scheme, yes, but if you're a fan of Stardock games pre-ording isn't a big deal). I don't know if it has an NDA or not - kinda doubt it. Elemental beta has been RAW because we've had access since the game was in early dev and not even really playable. But yes, if you're following elemental you could know quite a bit about it. I don't play the beta much, but there are also detailed threads from devs on a variety of topics and there are gameplay example threads with details. And their lead designer/programmer and a lot of their team post on their forums regularly and interact with players constantly.

So, dunno, maybe I'm used to companies that are more open. Definitely not all companies work like blizzard or stardock. Those two are actually fairly extremely opposite of the norm - because MOST companies seem to be worried about putting out garbage and keep a tight lid on facts til release, only allowing media hype to drive the market.

I've always thought Firaxis was needlessly hesitant with info when it comes to Civ. Granted, civ players at sites like this are incredibly critical, disect everything, make up WILD speculation threads regularly, or wish list/wish for threads from way out in left field. But, you know any version of Civ will be a hit. And would it REALLY be that big a deal to throw civvers some bones with some decent info so there doesn't have to be wild speculation, disecting of screenshots, disecting of interviews, etc, to assemble partial lists of "what we know."

What we HAVE seen of civ so far, like the game in vids from E3 and such, looks like the game is far enough along that there COULD be a lot more quality info available. It's 2 months til release, the game SHOULD be mostly done by now with only last minute tweaks going on (ie, very unlikely that any core systems would change significantly this far into development and this close to release).

So, there could be more info out about the game.

Instead of a marketing blitz of quality info, what we're getting is bombarded with the different purchase options and ways the game is going to be released, which usually features varying levels of content, and IMO the release options with extra stuff are overpriced for what they offer.

We don't have a firaxis rep telling us stuff, we have marketing reps from their publisher, and no offense, but that's probably not going to yield info that we really want here!

There are so many confusing ways the game is being released that 2K's own marketing guy doesn't know what's going on and has to look into it to clarify it (per his recent post that's linked as news on the front page of this site).

What annoys me is that I *love* civ, and I just wanna buy the game and be happy, but it's irritating that if I buy from source X, I won't get this extra civ, and if I instead buy source Y I get this extra civ instead. And if I just buy "THE GAME" I am not really getting a complete copy of the game due to all the different ways of getting extra stuff at release.

DLC is NOT the norm, it's still pretty new, and not all games have it, and not all games have a massacre of DLC at release. 2K is looking to milk the crap out of civ and can't even wait for the game to be out to start the DLC pimping.

 

[Gre_Magus]

The Giantbomb promised a "hands-on" preview of Civ 5 sometime this week. I'm sure other sites will have similar previews over the next few days - I imagine 2k has sent out some discs to games journalists. That's when we'll get some impressions of "this is how it all works out when you play..."

 

[AriochIV]

I am puzzled by the extreme scarcity if information that they're releasing. 90% of the online previews are about 4 short paragraphs that tell you about hex tiles and 1upt and little else, and have the same 5 screenshots. So the vast majority of people who don't dig super deep know almost nothing about how the game is shaping up. The E3 closed demos don't show anything (that I've seen) super-secret that could give away some sort of competetive information, and I think if they released some nice gameplay videos of the game in its current state (which seems very polished), I think it would generate a lot of excitement.

 

[Semmel]

What does "bliz" mean? And please explain it in non-slang words..

 

[AriochIV]

Blizzard Entertainment, developers of World of Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo.

 

[Semmel]

Uhh, ok. Of course I know Blizzard.. *facepalm* I just thought it was some strange expression, sorry.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Perhaps you can point to the other PC games on the market where the details of how a game will play out are well known before the game is released? Maybe Starcraft, because it has been beta'ed to death, but not many others.

You're trying to change the argument. You said we know lots about civ. I said we don't. You then ask what other games we know anything about. I suppose you mean that we know lots about civ relative to to other games at a similar distance from launch. That may be, but that's not what I'm arguing.

Meh, as I said straight away in my first post, how you wish to describe it all is highly subjective. It's pretty pointless even talking about it I suppose.

 

[arstal]

Could you say even this much about, say, Elemental?
Or Demigod, before it came out?

The Elemental beta has been in existance for months, and there is no NDA on it.

So yeah, people know a lot of what that game is about- and what needs to be worked on still (stability a bit, balance a good bit more).

 

[Calouste]

How much we know about the game and what way you want to describe it is highly subjective at the moment.

I say we know very little so far. We know pretty much zero about multiplayer and modding, almost nothing about the DLC that will be released (the amount we know about DLC could be summed up in about four or less sentences).
Modding and multiplayer alone make up, in my mind, about 50% of what needs to be known. About 10% is about Steam, and the other 40% is the game and its mechanics.

That's probably a strange way of looking at it, eh?

Well, it is certainly different than my way of looking at it. I care very little about modding (I might play one very occassionally but certainly wouldn't mod myself) and not at all about multiplayer. I find the Steam discussions about as interesting as which brand of engine oil you should put in your car*. Which leaves me about 99.9% interested in the game and its mechanics.

*(The dealer does that for me when I bring my car in for a service).

 

[Calouste]

I've been playing Civilization since 1993. Even though I don't write here very often anymore, I still visit the page every day to see if there are any news about the Civ franchise. I almost screamed out my happiness when Civ 5 was announced and I applauded the changes that were made, such as the hexagon tiles.

But then something happened. I completely lost all my enthusiasm. All the joy is gone.

To be honest, I've always considered the average Civ player to be a bit more intelligent than the average ...Tekken player.

You obviously don't spend much time on these forums.

I therefore believed that it would be very hard to trick Civ players into buying junk. Well, that's what 2K Games is trying to make them do.

What do we actually know about Civ 5? How does the battles system work? How is the tech tree designed? How has the AI been improved?

Five podcasts have been released. They talk about graphics and music and "cool" features, but not about the actual gameplay.



It may only be me, but I can't stand this. It sounds so pretentious and unnatural. 2K try so hard to make it sound like they and Firaxis are working like slaves to make us satisfied. Then the add Steam, announce DLC's months before the game is to be released, they offer several different "deluxe editions" with different content, so that the hardcore game will have to pay several times for the same game in order to get everything. And still, we have no idea if the game is going to be fun to play.

Civ 4: Col was a disaster, Railroads! possible even worse. And now we get this mess. I really miss Microprose and Brian Reynolds.

Specifics?

 

[Snoopy]

I remember Firaxis releasing a demo-play video of Civilization III, it didn't last very long, and it basically showed you how the new resource gathering system will be like.

Maybe they could do the same thing, show a few examples here and there.

 

[Hail]

I remember Firaxis releasing a demo-play video of Civilization III, it didn't last very long, and it basically showed you how the new resource gathering system will be like.

Maybe they could do the same thing, show a few examples here and there.

a demo would be awesome, but i do not see it happening: too close to release date

 

[atticus finch]

I completely agree with Bad Brett. Civ 4 was the last Civ game I'll ever buy, maybe the last 2k/firaxis game.

 

[Ahriman]

I concede the Elemental point. I took a look at the website (I had previously been relying on gaming websites); there is far more info there than there is on new features in Civ5.

Still, we know a lot about the basics of how Civ5 will work, because we know how Civ4 works.

 

[trineas]

I imagine 2k has sent out some discs to games journalists.

Actually they did not. It's all done through Steam. Journalists were given a key which unlocks a special preview copy on their Steam account.

 

[DalekDavros]

I am puzzled by the extreme scarcity if information that they're releasing. 90% of the online previews are about 4 short paragraphs that tell you about hex tiles and 1upt and little else, and have the same 5 screenshots. So the vast majority of people who don't dig super deep know almost nothing about how the game is shaping up. The E3 closed demos don't show anything (that I've seen) super-secret that could give away some sort of competetive information, and I think if they released some nice gameplay videos of the game in its current state (which seems very polished), I think it would generate a lot of excitement.

It would generate a lot of excitement. But then no more excitement would be generated until the release date. Instead, they announce one small thing at a time, drip by drip, to keep people interested in it and keep people talking about it until the day it ships. Plus, it gives the gaming press the opportunity to keep writing articles--and studios want to retain positive relations with the press. I'd rather have everything now, of course, but the way they're scheduling it isn't a terrible idea from a marketing perspective. On the other hand, leaking some information unofficially on the back-channels for the diehards to pour over is also a good policy generally, so I'm a bit surprised at the lengths that they've gone to suppress the closed demo that was leaked.

Also, some things probably aren't finalized yet. If they raved about the super such-and-such unit/tech/improvement/etc. that they're planning and end up having to cut it due to coding and/or balance issues, people are going to be more upset than they would have been if no one knew that such a unit/etc. was ever planned in the first place.

 

[EMT]

I'm done with the civ series for the most part as well. I just check in once a week to see how Fireaxis is bombing the series. Personally, I haven't minded a single thing. Not even Steam that much, hell, I have Steam on now as I type. What made up my mind was the DLC. The horrible DLC. That, and I was introduced to Paradox Interactive and their Europa Universalis series. THEY know how to treat a customer!

That, and it seems to be a lot more realistic, which interests me more. My saved up cash is going to be spent on Victoria 2, NOT some greedy half-baked ploy to make me spend as much money as possible.

 

[arstal]

That's one thing I am noticing in this thread- the Stardock/Paradox fans seem to be the ones who have less tolerance for big-boy publisher tactics. Probably because they know that those aren't necessary, or beneficial at all for the consumer.

Also, 2K is trying to ride Steamworks hard- another one of their games is using mandatory Steamworks. So Civ V is being used as part of a large strategy, which is anti-competitive for the DD market. Civ V is just the game I think that will damage Steam's competitors the most- unless it ends up garbage- which I find to believe. (possible but unlikely)

 

[bjbrains]

That's one thing I am noticing in this thread- the Stardock/Paradox fans seem to be the ones who have less tolerance for big-boy publisher tactics. Probably because they know that those aren't necessary, or beneficial at all for the consumer.

Also, 2K is trying to ride Steamworks hard- another one of their games is using mandatory Steamworks. So Civ V is being used as part of a large strategy, which is anti-competitive for the DD market. Civ V is just the game I think that will damage Steam's competitors the most- unless it ends up garbage- which I find to believe. (possible but unlikely)

Well, I own several paradox games, Galciv2/expansions (which I love), and Sins of a Solar Empire. I may not be jumping for joy over mainstream DLC strategies (It's less a '2K' thing than it is mainstream publishers in general), but I'm not going to get angry over it. Remember that it's less "content taken out and being sold" and more "extra content paid for by the preorders it brings/ cash people pay for it".