TJS1 -- Going on the Pill-age

[tjs282]

Godsdammit, I've been checking my Alerts every day since Saturday, and CFC didn't tell me there'd been all this new discussion...

I like Lanz's and Tusker's dotmaps.

For the MGL, our first Army would be nice, but (v)Horses alone should be enough to crush the Arabs, Russians and the Dutch, and storing an Army for later doesn't really make sense, if our first 'offensive' war(s) is/are going to start (in another 10-15T, right?) before we get Zerks: we have several eArchers already, and our vHorses should get to elite-status early enough that we can expect to get another MGL relatively soon after that war(s) starts. We can always put Horses into that Army, if we want to*...

So I also vote for the FP -- this will also make all our outlying towns more productive, and hence get us more beakers, more Horses, and (later) more Zerks, more quickly -- and I also prefer Stavanger over Stockholm, for the potential shields, the extra Cultural impingement, and the ability to get a Rax up quickly for vUnit-builds, and 1T heals following forays into Russia and Holland.

On which subject, is there general agreement that we should attack the Russians before we go after the Dutch? We don't need the GLight until we're fighting more distant enemies, the Russians do look to be the weaker target right now (at least in terms of town-development), and Yek'burg's been bugging me for a long time -- it would (also) make a great Worker-/Settler-pump, once it becomes ours. Not sure about Cathy's military strength though: IIRC, we haven't seen the Russians fighting anyone (except barbs) yet, have we...?

Although it is a bit of a shame that Dora's going to get SoZ instead of Cathy, I don't really see that it can be avoided now. Even if we could persuade Dora to switch off her Wonder-build (would a DoW do it, e.g. if we allied with Hanni against her?), I don't much fancy holding off attacking Russia long enough for Cathy to finish it instead (she should probably have acquired Maths earlier)...

Lanzelot: Do we really need to make peace with Abu? Are we starting to get WW? Or do you just not want to fight on 2 fronts?

*

Spoiler Digression :

I took out fortified Pike-garrisons using a vveHorse-Army in my Start3 game, and I kept and used that Army up until the AI got Cavs. I didn't do so well with my Mace- and Zerk-Armies: I got them all slaughtered by trying to take out second-string defenders, leaving the Armies damaged and out in the open. And I just lost my few remaining v+eZerks to a flip in a trash-town I'd founded near a Jap city on my continent -- but both those towns are due for the (re)taking any turn now...

 

[Nathiri]

Godsdammit, I've been checking my Alerts every day since Saturday, and CFC didn't tell me there'd been all this new discussion...

Yeah as I said, that alert thing has happened to me twice, so I make sure to check the forum pages every now and then as well, not only for this, but also to see any new topics.

 

[Elephantium]

Re: Workers 19 and 20: Improving Bergen is possible, but the stack of 6 from Copenhagen will catch up with them awfully fast.I just don't want to strand them 2 turns away from the nearest improvement job

Re: Bergen:

I'm afraid so.

Right now it's at 17% corruption. With the FP in Stavanger, it'll be 15% corrupt.

I calculated shields lost to corruption as follows:

Corruption% 17 15
Base - Corrupt - Net - Corrupt - Net
1 - 0.17 - 1 - 0.15 - 1
2 - 0.34 - 2 - 0.3 - 2
3 - 0.51 - 2 - 0.45 - 3
4 - 0.68 - 3 - 0.6 - 3
5 - 0.85 - 4 - 0.75 - 4
6 - 1.02 - 5 - 0.9 - 5
7 - 1.19 - 6 - 1.05 - 6
8 - 1.36 - 7 - 1.2 - 7
9 - 1.53 - 7 - 1.35 - 8
10 - 1.7 - 8 - 1.5 - 9

With perfect development, it'll work like this:
T1 (end with 5 food in bin): City center, 3 BGs, 2 mined grassland (MG) => 6-1 = 5 shields
T2 (hit size 6, new citizen works a hill): City center, 3 BGs, 2 MG, hill => 9-1 = 8 shields
T3 (end with 5 food in bin, 6th citizen works a MG): City ctr, 3 BGs, 3 MG => 7-1 = 6 shields
T4 (hit size 7, new citizen works a hill): City ctr, 3 BGs, 3 MG, hill => 10-2 = 9 shields

5+8+6+9= 28 shields

The good news is: We could short-rush using a Worker after T1...but as I said, that's too fiddly for my taste.

Re: Tundra towns, I agree that the 4 coastal spots are good Galley-towns. The two inland spots are indeed just size 1 tax/Wealth farms.

Re: war, I think my turnset is largely building up, maybe taking Kufah at best. The next turnset can sign peace with Arabia and start the Russian war with the seizure of Yekaterinburg (and anything else handy, like the nearest Russian town to the western Wheat).

 

[Spoonwood]

But then it's about time to take T'heim off settler duty and let it grow!

You still have to do research towards Invention. I think you'd get a little bit of extra commerce at this point by having Trondheim put out settlers sooner and that would help you get towards Invention sooner, or giving you a little more cash for upgrades. So, I'm not so sure I agree with Lanzelot here.

 

[Lanzelot]

Lanzelot: Do we really need to make peace with Abu? Are we starting to get WW? Or do you just not want to fight on 2 fronts?

My thought was, if we really want an early war with Russia, we would first have to make peace with Arabia. With our current military, we certainly can't afford a 2-front war.
But if we go for the FP instead of Horse-Army (and consequently remain peaceful with Russia), there is of course no need to make peace with the Arabs: we are still enjoying war happiness. (Otherwise we wouldn't be able to run 100% science.)

And in 20 turns from now, the situation will be different: then we are strong enough to take on Russia and Arabia at the same time, so again no need to make peace (if we are still enjoying WH by then).

 

[Lanzelot]

You still have to do research towards Invention. I think you'd get a little bit of extra commerce at this point by having Trondheim put out settlers sooner and that would help you get towards Invention sooner, or giving you a little more cash for upgrades. So, I'm not so sure I agree with Lanzelot here.

It's not easy to calculate these effects, when several opposing factors are involved. But you also need to consider: Trondheim is corruption-free and has a Library. At size 6 it makes 34 beakers, so at size 12 it would make close to 60 beakers. (Assuming it gets the tobacco and 2-3 coast tiles.) We would need to increase the lux slider, but still we would be making 50 beakers or so. How much would 3-4 more tundra towns contribute to our research?!
And also: once Trondheim is off Settler duty, it can build 2-turn Horses. And a few captured Arabian/Russian towns are as good as a few extra Settlers...
And the sooner we join a dozen Workers to cities like Copenhagen, Trondheim, Reykjavik and Bergen, the sooner we get a relieve on our unit upkeep...

Something else that just came to my mind: don't remember exactly, but I think the amount of gold carried away by a barbarian entering your town is calculated roughly like this: Current treasury divided by number of towns.
At the moment we have over 400g in the treasury and only 10 towns, so each barb would carry away around 40gold! The number decreases as our treasury decreases, but after 24 barbs, nothing would be left of it.

So we better short-rush as many useful things as we can, before throwing the party for the barbs in Odense...

 

[Lanzelot]

On which subject, is there general agreement that we should attack the Russians before we go after the Dutch?

Sounds reasonable to me. Once we have a sufficiently strong army, we could even keep the Arabian war on a slow-burner (just to get the war happiness), and turn our full attention towards Russia to get their resources quickly. Then with 5 sources of happiness (Arabian WH, our furs, the silks import from the Netherlands and ivory & dyes from Russia) we would have no problem keeping a size 12 city happy.

Next phase would then be to get our Lighthouse, and then our Berzerks can quickly strike anywhere we want.
If Theodora builds SoZ, it's no big deal either. From the Russian northern shore we can quickly sail to Byzanz, and we should go there anyway, as they have the Pyramids... So getting the Pyramids and SoZ in one go, would be quite worth it...
Another worthwhile target would be Tenochtitlan, as that Oracle would nicely complement our Artemis Temple...

By the way: I just notice we don't have an embassy in Constantinople yet. We should establish one now, while we still have cash... If we are lucky, Constantinople is on the coast directly opposite to the Russian coast and then it would just be 2-3 turns for our Galleys.

 

[Spoonwood]

At size 6 it makes 34 beakers, so at size 12 it would make close to 60 beakers. (Assuming it gets the tobacco and 2-3 coast tiles.) We would need to increase the lux slider, but still we would be making 50 beakers or so.

Careful there. You have to move the workers and join them in first to talk about size 12 (or wait for growth). Settlers moving from a boat seems faster to me. Talking about size 7 seems more reasonable.

And also: once Trondheim is off Settler duty, it can build 2-turn Horses. And a few captured Arabian/Russian towns are as good as a few extra Settlers

You need more than one horseman to capture a town. You only need one settler to found a new city.

And the sooner we join a dozen Workers to cities like Copenhagen, Trondheim, Reykjavik and Bergen, the sooner we get a relieve on our unit upkeep

Well, 4 towns going from size 7 to 12 is 20 total workers.

Also, more towns sooner lowers your unit support.

You also grow faster overall by having those towns up sooner.

 

[Elephantium]

Constantinople is ~15 tiles NW-ish of Orenburg. Not quite the quick jaunt we were hoping for, but not bad.

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

I build the Embassy in Constantinople for 60 gold.
I rush the Worker in Stavanger for 12 gold.
I short-rush the Archer in Stockholm and change to a Horsemen for 12 gold.
I short-rush the 'duct in Reyk using a Granary for 152 gold.
I short-rush the Horseman in Birka (Archer) for 56 gold.

We're down to 116 gold.

IBT:
Byzantines declare on the Arabs!
Byzantines start Sun Tzu.
Arabia kills three Barb horses near Kufah.
Russian Settler pair is next to Stavanger.
Dutch Horsemen come traipsing through our lands. We have a RoP?

Barbarian hordes attack Arabian Archers, killing the 3-stack at heavy cost (only the three killers remain from that huge stack by Kufah).
Our exploring Galley sees a Barb galley come out of the fog.

Stavanger: Worker-FP

T1 (330 BC):

Ugh, the Vandal hordes didn't move on the IBT. It doesn't look like there will be an Odense-party; we'll have to root them out once we have some troops lined up. Now I wish I hadn't spent all that gold in the pre-turn

I drop the science slider to 60% to avoid instant bankruptcy.
MM Oslo to get the extra shield needed to keep the Worker factory on track.
Healfdene used up all his movement getting into Stavanger, so it will be one more turn for the FP
rArcher kills a stray Arab Archer; move the Spear to cover him.

IBT:

Aztec Galley shows up on the coast near Birka.
Barb Galley tries to kill our Galley near Odense. It fails.
Bergen: Workers
Oslo: Workers

T2 (310 BC):

T'heim's BG is irrigated; I disperse that stack to start roading.
MM Oslo to keep the factory on track.

Science slider to 40%. Engineering due in 19 @ -6gpt

IBT:

Netherlands and Arabia sign peace.
3 Barbs suicide against our eSpear
1 Barb Galley suicides against our wounded explorer

T'heim: Settlers.
Copenhagen: Duct-Horsemen
Aarhus; Harbor-Barracks
Stavanger: FP-Barracks

T3 (290 BC):

Sci slider to 30%. Engineering due in 22 @ +1gpt.
MM Oslo to keep the factory on track.
I reluctantly move the Horseman near T'heim in case the Aztecs land something on the IBT.

IBT:

Uh-oh! The barbs are now motivated to move. Now they threaten Reyk. Still better than losing the capital to the Aztecs...

Bergen: Workers
Oslo: Workers
Stockholm: Horsemen

T4 (270 BC):

Move Workers to avoid losing them to barbs!
The first Settler reaches his tile near the Wheat.
Dutch are in the MA now.
MM Oslo to keep the factory on track.
Sci slider to 20% to give us positive gpt.
I move the Horseman back into Reyk in hopes of dissuading the barbs.

IBT:

Russian settler pair comes out of the fog at the wheat. We'll beat them to the spot by ONE TURN
Great success! The barbs head for Odense!

Birka: Horsemen

T5 (250 BC):

Hareid founded next to the sugar. Building Barracks.
MM Oslo to keep the factory going.

IBT:

Aztecs land 1 Warrior next to Copenhagen.
Vandals drop us to 10 gold by sacking Odense. They don't hurt production there

Bergen: Workers
Oslo: Workers

Carthage is building Sun Tzu.

T6 (230 BC):

One of our newest Horsemen kills the Aztec Warrior, no damage
Sci slider to 40%; Eng in 13 @ -6gpt
Sadly we have nothing to sell Carthage *or* Byzantines for Feudalism. They both have all the AA optional techs
MM Oslo to keep the worker pump running.

IBT:

Carthage demands 20 gold. This would bankrupt us, and we have ongoing deals where we give them more gold than they give us, so we defy the demand. Hannibal backs down.
Aztecs land two Archers next to Yekaterinburg.

T'heim: Settlers
Copenhagen: Horsemen
Reyk: 'duct-Galley

T7 (210 BC):

The one Horseman in range of the Aztec landing site kills one of the Archers.

We can trade Dyes with Russia, but we really don't want to. The RoP runs out in 3 turns.

IBT:

Aztecs kill the wounded Horseman from last turn.
Barb Galley dies against our Galley near the Tundra locations.

Bergen: Workers
I realize that I forgot to MM Oslo, so I break into the build queue to handle that -- a nice trick for this kind of goof (or to prevent riots from losing a lux on the AI's move)
Oslo: Workers
Aarhus: Barracks-Horseman

T8 (190 BC):

Sci slider to 30%, Eng in 14 @ -2gpt to prevent bankruptcy.
MM Oslo to keep the worker pump running.
Switch Copenhagen to Spear so we have a second defender - I'm hoping to avoid Horseman losses.

IBT:

Aztecs land two more Warriors near Yekaterinburg.
Two Vandal Galleys suicide against our tundra-scouting Galley and promote it to Elite

T9 (170 BC):

MM Oslo to keep the worker pump running.
Re-check T'heim and Bergen, too; T'heim needs adjustment to grow on schedule.

IBT:

Copenhagen: Spear-Horseman

This happens:



I start work on a Granary.

T10 (150 BC):

I move some units to block a Russian settler pair from the tundra.
I misclick an Archer next to Kufah; fortunately, I can cover with a Spear. He'll need to retreat next turn and wait for the rest of the Archer squad.

 

[robbus]

I am stuck in 550bc and 2pages behind in keeping up with thread!!!!

I am going to try and catch up tonight!

 

[tjs282]

Excellent work, Elephantium! I'm actually looking forward to playing this set (makes a nice change!) Having Yek flip was a wonderful piece of luck. I'll DL the savegame later, but judging from the screenies, I guess my priorities are:

Towns:
Trond carries on Settler-pumping a bit longer, at least until another town (Yek?) is ready to take over Settler-pumping duties
(Would it be worth be putting up a CH in Bergen or Yek at some point?)
Bergen and Oslo carry on Worker-pumping
Continue/Start building Archers/Horses from Rax-towns, and Galleys from 2nd/3rd-ring coast-towns (after Harbours are done?)
Start building a 'Duct in Birka at Pop4-5?

Settlers:
Plains 3NW of Stockholm (1NW of Settler's current position on Sugar: start building a... 'Rax?)
Coastal Tundra WSW of Reyk ('Blackdot' in my last foodmap: start a Harbour) (assuming the Barbs are no longer an issue)
Coastal Plains halfway between Aarhus and Hareid ('Orangedot' in my last foodmap: start a Harbour)
(Shall I let the Russians settle the Tundra-fish SSW of Odense for us?)

Workers:
Irrigate the BGrass for faster growth in Birka -- it can be passed across to Yek later if we need it
Enrich the shield-outputs from Yek's tiles (irrigate 1 Wheat or both? Chop the Forest NNW or WSW for a faster Gran-build?)
Road up and improve food output from newly settled towns

Military:
Defend against further Aztec incursions
Definitely take Kufah. But after that:

-- Use a Galley to explore the inner sea?
-- Raze and re-Settle on the Hill, then garrison heavily for skirmishing vs. passing Arab units?
-- Press west and take as many more towns from Abu as I can before making peace?
-- Or generally just let the Russians and Dutch carry on fighting the Arabs for us (and take only the easy kills for promotions-/MGL-chances)?​

If we get to 'STRONG' against Cathy during my set (i.e. we should be able to sustain a 2-front war), DoW immediately?

Science:
Raise the SCI%-slider as soon as possible (GPT-deal with Carthage should expire on my set, yes?) to get to Eng faster
Trade for Feud if/when possible (Might Ozzie get it for us? Is he still ignorant of most other Civs?)

 

[Elephantium]

I'm actually starting to favor a pivot: Let Bergen and Oslo grow to size 7, building Barracks and then Horsemen. We have 31 Workers and are hurting for cash because of 60+ gpt unit support. Research is suffering because of this. The deal with Carthage will help here. Trading would help, if we had anyone to sell to -- I let a couple of trading opportunities slip during my set because I was too focused on barbs

What do you all think of pausing Worker production for a while?

Joining Workers to cities would help with cash flow, but we need more luxuries or a boost to the lux slider (probably both) for that to work.

I'd almost say have Bergen short-rush for Settlers to get our "best" tundra town spots occupied faster, but we'd need more gold for that

Settlers: Don't forget to settle in place along the coast N of Hareid and the Wheat
For the spot near Reyk, I'd settle the two fish spots first. Barbs are still a problem in that area.

I'd prefer to lock in the tundra for ourselves; the AI won't place cities according to our dotmap.

Sending a Galley to explore N of Kufah sounds good. I think that sea is connected to the world's oceans, though, based on our exploring Warrior in Russia.

Speaking of which -- make sure you disband him before declaring war on Russia!

 

[Lanzelot]

Well, that went quite well, didn't it!

Now we only need to refill our pockets to Speed up science. I'm very worried, that it'll take us too long to get Engineering and the trade opportunity will be gone. The Dutch are willing to pay 32g for a RoP, not much, but why not?!

Healfdene used up all his movement getting into Stavanger, so it will be one more turn for the FP

Aargh, my mistake, completely forgot the hill would cost two movement points... But there wasn't any way to get there faster anyway, the MGL was spawned on the sugar tile 2NW of Stockholm.

This happens:

Yes!! (So the Artemis Temple was the right choice after all... And Yaroslavl will be next... )

at least until another town (Yek?) is ready to take over Settler-pumping duties

I doubt it. The corruption is even higher than in Bergen, and if even Bergen is not able to do it even with a mined hill on growth, how can Yek possibly do it?! But it may soon take over Worker duty from Bergen. We should grow it soon, too. (More on that later.)

Start building a 'Duct in Birka at Pop4-5?

Yep. Also make sure to irrigate two grasslands for Birka, it's growing too slow atm.

(Shall I let the Russians settle the Tundra-fish SSW of Odense for us?)

No. With our boats we can send a Settler there in one turn. Just check before, that the "coast is clear". Tusker mentioned there are still barbs down there.

irrigate 1 Wheat or both?

Hmm, I'm also a bit confused, why we currently replace the mine on that wheat with an Irrigation?! I would have kept the mine and irrigated the unimproved wheat. Irrigating both, would have made sense, if there were a mined hill within reach. (Two irrigated wheats and the hill still give +5fpt and lots of shields.)

Chop the Forest NNW or WSW for a faster Gran-build?)

We may need it for shields on growth, if a SF should be possible at all?

Use a Galley to explore the inner sea?

Yes. Can't hurt to know the sea lane to Byzanz...

Raze and re-Settle on the Hill, then garrison heavily for skirmishing vs. passing Arab units?

Why raze? That town is in a nice spot! Build two slaves from it and then let it grow again.

Press west and take as many more towns from Abu as I can before making peace?

We may not even need to make peace for quite some time. (At least until we got the Russian luxuries...) Just put the war on a slow-burner, when you decide to go for Russia. The Arabs shouldn't pose a Problem anymore, once they've lost 3-4 towns.

DoW immediately?

But make sure we are really strong enough for that. E.g. we will need to reserve 1-2 units for the occasional Aztec landing, and 3-4 units to safeguard the Arabian front. Then with ~10 units we can push into Russia.

What do you all think of pausing Worker production for a while?

No. But we should definitely push Trondheim, Copenhagen, Reykjavik and shortly afterwards also Bergen to 12. Don't be afraid of increasing the lux slider! I have often seen people voluntarily stopping/delaying growth, because they are afraid of happiness problems. But with 4 nice size-12 cities, we'll have more research output than now, even if we have to raise the lux slider from 0% to 30%! Plus we'll have much more production capacity. Why let Copenhagen build a Horseman every 5 turns, if it can as well build one every 2 turns! And the same goes for Trondheim, Reykjavik and Bergen.
But we should also make sure, that Aarhus and Birka now grow quickly (two irrigated grasslands minimum for each) and get their Aqueduct on time. With 6 cities instead of 4, everything (research and military) will of course go much better...

So I'd say: start joining existing Workers to size-7 cities now and let Oslo and Yekaterinburg produce new ones for the jobs that are still to do. For example, Stavanger needs lots of Workers now. After all, we want the full benefit of our FP asap.
(Or after looking at the save, we may want to do it the other way around: keep the existing Workers employed where they are and send new ones from Bergen to Copenhagen, Trondheim and Reykjavik. Unfortunately our existing workers have meanwhile wandered too far away from our core...)

but we need more luxuries or a boost to the lux slider (probably both) for that to work.

See above.

 

[Elephantium]

I'm also worried about research. Budgeting is hard under these circumstances!

Re: wheat, yes, I was thinking of irrigating both tiles

Re: worker position, well, I mostly moved them towards unroaded areas. There aren't many jobs left in the core!

 

[Elephantium]

Lux slider: not with it for 1 city, IMO. Worth it when we get 4 cities to size 7+

 

[choxorn]

Great turnset! And nice to see Yekaterinberg flipped. With culture at our disposal, who needs Berzerks? All the AI cities will simply flock to join us!

]
Dutch Horsemen come traipsing through our lands. We have a RoP?

Had, I included one when I MA'd the Dutch against the Arabs. I see they've signed peace, though, so the ROP should have expired.

 

[tjs282]

Have now DL'd the save, and have some further thoughts:

Yes!! (So the Artemis Temple was the right choice after all... And Yaroslavl will be next... )

If it does, do we really want to keep it, long-term? I think it's too close to Stavanger and the 2 imminent towns (Settler on Sugar founds in 2T, Settler under the eArcher founds next turn?). So once Yaro is ours (whether by culture or conquest) I would therefore prefer to (eventually) Worker/Settler-disband it, and re-Settle 1N of its current position (or NNW, on the Tobacco) -- which would also give Hareid, SugarTown and eArcherTown a little more breathing room, especially if we're going to keep Kufah where it is (but see below).

I agree with Chox's idea of putting a town W/NW of Utrecht at some point, preferably before the Russian borders expand further (Utrecht doesn't really need to stay there, either...). Such a town would be ~40% corrupt (sez CAII), but will get the the Gold-Hill in its 'inner BFC' (whether we found WNW or 3NW of Utrecht) -- and the Silks either immediately (if 3NW) or after border-expansion, 5T after founding (if WNW). Its border-pops might also shorten our path to Moscow and Novgorod.

I doubt it. The corruption is even higher than in Bergen, and if even Bergen is not able to do it even with a mined hill on growth, how can Yek possibly do it?! But it may soon take over Worker duty from Bergen. We should grow it soon, too. (More on that later.)

Yek has greater shield-potential than Bergen, though -- Bergen's problem is that having irrigated the BGrass, most of its remaining tiles give only 1SPT, on average, even after mining -- we needed to irrigate Grass just to get our 5FPT. OTOH, Yek has 4 Plains, giving 1.5SPT per tile, if we irrigate the 2 Plains and mine the 2 Wheat-Plains. If we also irrigate the BGrass, then along with the city-tile, at Pop5 that would give us 8SPT before corruption. At current corruption level (25%), we'd only get 6SPT, but if we built a CH (reduces corruption to 15%, same as Bergen), it should get 7SPT, which means it could easily do Settlers, even if we only got 1s per IBT (from the Forest) and the 6th worked tile at Pop6 gave only 1 SPT more.

Oh, wait, it would need a Duct as well, to get to Pop7 and then drop back to Pop5. Hmmm... Switch to CH now, then do a Gran, then a Duct...? Seems quite expensive, for a 2nd-ringer...

We may need it for shields on growth, if a SF should be possible at all?

Yek currently has 3 Forests in its BFC. And we could always replant the chopped tile(s).

Why raze? That town is in a nice spot!

It's kind of crowding Hareid and OrangeDot. And if we're going to put the war vs the Arabs on the back-burner, re-Settlement on the Hill, giving it a Wall (and a Rax, i.e. 30s) would then allow it to act as a much stronger choke-point guard. With a couple of defenders -- even just Spears -- permanently fortified, covering 3-4 sentried Horses/Archers, but the towns on our side of NuKufah left lightly guarded (or even unguarded), we could bait the Arabs to bypass the Hill-town, allowing us to wage a war of attrition against them, at relatively low risk to our units.

But we can talk more about that later. I'll probably play 5T today, 5T tomorrow...

 

[Elephantium]

Re:Kufah, we could put a Fortress on the hill next to town and fortify a Spear. Just as good for defense as the town.

 

[tjs282]

Mid-set summary:

So far, I have built 2 Settlers and founded 3 cities (2 Settlers in place from Tusker's set, and Tundra near Reyk); OrangeDot will be founded in 2T. I currently have Trondheim at Pop5 and 1T into building a 3rd Settler (last one before it gets Worker-joins?). It will need a Harbour, though (it can do that in 2T, once it's getting 15spt). The southern Tundra is now clear of Barbs and fog-free, so can be Settled at our leisure (ship-chain is in place).

I have also (last turn) switched Bergen to building a Rax (in 3T, Pop7 in 1T) rather than a Worker, because we now have 35 Workers on the board, and I would like to start pumping up those 1st-ring towns which can take it: Trond, Bergen, Cope, Reyk, and Birka once it finishes the 'Duct it just started (at Pop4) -- maybe also Stockholm, once the latter hits Pop7. Oslo is still on Worker-duty, and Yek should be able to start pumping Workers soon (8T to Pop5 at 5 fpt, and 12T to the Gran, not including IBT-shields -- but the extra shields can be chopped if necessary, or cash-rushed: we should be back in positive income by the time the Gran is needed).

Our core is now pretty much fully improved, apart from some mining of Grass-tiles preparatory to Trond+Bergen going to Pop7. (Before I start the Worker-joins, I will also use Worker-stacks to 1T-swap the improvements on the iGrass and mBGrass currently being used by Bergen, so that both tiles give 1spt instead of 0+2spt). Otherwise, I'm inclined to leave Bergen its iBGrass, so it can later spit out 1-2T Workers/Settlers at Pop12, and still regrow quickly.

I was able to raise SCI% for a couple of turns, so we're now 4T to Eng, but money is still very tight -- I'll have to lower it (again) before I end the current turn. I had to make another RoP with Willy (and pay 2gpt) to ensure our Silk-supply. Cathy cancelled our RoP on my first IBT, but 4T later, she still has a few Settler-pairs and Horses milling about on our turf (despite getting all indignant when I tried to bring our Axe back from the peninsula -- I disbanded him instead).

Military-wise, things didn't go quite to plan. I haven't actually taken Kufah yet, because I wanted to assemble a decent attack-stack outside it first, to be sure of taking it in 1T -- but then the IBT before I was expecting to attack, 3 rArchers appeared next to it! At that point I had unguarded Workers (and unguarded Hareid) within 2T striking distance of the Arab Archer-stack, but no road to get units back from Kufah after capturing it (and little expectation that I would have enough healthy units in the vicinity to kill all 3 Archers before they did us some serious damage), so I decided to go for a pre-emptive strike before I attacked the town. It sort of worked: the 2 rArchers both scored kills and promotions (but got injured), but the vHorse retreated (no losses). We should have the town next turn, though: I have another vHorse incoming, to draw the injured Arab Archer's fire and hopefully damage the Spear, then 2 vArchers (2/4, 3/4) + 2 eArchers (both 5/5) to take the town, and an eSpear to garrison it.

We just got to AVERAGE against the Russians, so a couple more Horses should do to get us to STRONG, and then I should be able to serve Cathy with a nice warm DoW without fear of major losses/ retaliation, and start taking her outlying towns (if they don't flip first: Yaroslavl is already looking a little 'squeezed'!) -- and the Slaves will helpful too. So once I take Kufah, I'm inclined to stop there for now, just kill any incoming Arabs (by parking our units on the Hill), and switch our major attentions to the Russians instead. Once we have Zerks, we should be able to mop up the Arabs pretty quickly, since most of their towns are coastal, and they have no Horses.

Spoiler Turnlog, T120-T125 :

T 0, 150 BC
Preflight:
CAII on
Game-prefs: 'Show/animate friend/enemy moves' and 'Cancel orders for enemy unit' unchecked, 'Always renogotiate deals' left unchecked
Oslo tweaked for 5 FPT+5SPT -- the extra 1CPT from the Lake doesn't make any difference to Oslo's gold+beaker output
Since I can't reassign them on this turn, I decide to leave the 2 Workers irrigating the (mined) Wheat near Yek (2T to finish): It doesn't really matter which 2 Plains are mined and which 2 are irrigated, and there are 3 Workers on the unimproved Plains, who can road+mine it in 3T before moving on: I will mine the other Wheat (and irrigate the BGrass) for another 2T Worker-pump, so Bergen can start growing (can't run a Pop5-7 Settler-pump in Yek without a CH+Duct anyway)
Off we go...
IBT
Cathy cancels our RoP. Okey-dokey...
Trond: Settler
Low Treasury warning! But growth in Reyk (now Pop7) and new Settlements will fix that

T 121, 130 BC
Settler sent to coastal Tundra WSW of Reyk (3T) -- don't want to risk going further south until I know the Barbs are cleared
Worker begins chopping Forest near Reyk, ready to add to the town's 1st build -- covered by 3/4 Horse (who will go and bust the Barb camp in 2T)
eSpear fortified next to Kufah, vHorse from Hareid and rArcher from Stockholm sent to join him
Molde founded north of western Wheat-fields --> Gran as placeholder (60T, growth in 7T)
We're now at +4GPT, but I can't raise SCI% or LUX% yet
Geek assigned in Reyk to prevent riots: it's still growing slowly (1FPT)
Workers begin roading Plains (3T each) near NuSugah
Workers near Stockholm rearranged to mine Grass (3 in 2T) and finish irrigating BGrass (3 in 1T)
Workers near Yek road+mine Plains (1 in 3T, 2 in 3T)
Galley returns to Trond to wait for next Settler, and 3/5 Galley anchors in Odense for repairs, eGalley sent south to bust fog near Fish
IBT
Willy cancels our Silks-deal! RoP+2gpt+Furs get it back
Bergen+Oslo: Workers
Dutch begin HGard in TheHague

T 122, 110 BC
Alesund founded NW of inland-Sugar --> Duct (100T, growth in 10T)
Workers near Yek begin mining Grass (3 in 2T) and irrigating BGrass (2 in 2T)
Workers near Stockholm and from Aarhus sentg to road+irrigate Grass near Aarhus (4 in 1+3T) and mine Grass between Stockholm and Bergen (2 in 3T)
Forgetting that we don't have Eng yet, I try to send the new Worker to join them -- but he has to cross a river first *facepalm*
eGalley spots Barb-Horse heading north towards... Odense? (Will take him another 2T to get there)
Minor shield-overruns will happen on the IBT, but there's little I can do to prevent them -- although I can get Stavanger much more CPT, once its Hill-roads complete on this IBT
IBT
Cathy boots our Warrior after only 1T -- even though she still has units on our turf
Reyk: Galley (5T)
Stav: vHorse (8T, but I'll chop the NW Forest into it, because I need an irrigation-path)
Odense: Galley (15T, growth in 3T)
Aztecs begin GLib in Tlatelolco

T 123, 90 BC
Workers road (3 in 1T) then irrigate (4 in 1T) Grass near Aarhus
Workers go to mine Wheat near Yek (2 in 3T)
vHorse smashes Vandal camp on our Fish-Tundra spot
Since I can't extract our rWarrior from Russia, or explore further without an RoP, I disband him
MM Cope and Birka to finish Horse-builds in 1T, at the expense of a little food
I now have 3 offensive-units outside Kufah -- with any luck, it will fall next turn. But just in case it doesn't, I send both the healed eArchers from Stockholm to finish the job (should have done that last turn)
With the barb-camp gold (Treas. = 37g), I can now raise SCI% to 40%, shaving 1T off Eng (6T at -6gpt)
IBT
Bergen/Oslo: Workers
Cope/Birka/Stock: Horses
Arab Archer 3-stack appears outside Kufah!

T 124, 70 BC
rArchers skewer first 2 Arab rArchers for promotions (3/4, 2/4), but vHorse retreats from the third (now 2/3)
eArchers move to intercept injured Archer near Kufah (and cover Worker 3-pack which will 1T-road to Kufah)
vHorse kills Barb-Horse near Odense. The southern Tundra is now a Barb-free zone
Bodo founded on Tundra near Reyk --> Harbour (15T, but chop will finish this IBT)
Stock's new vHorse sent north to Stav (I#m a little nervous about all the Russians we still have on our turf...), Cope's new vHorse sent to assist with Arab war, Birka's stays put to help defend against Aztec landings
Workers from Stockholm's Forests and Alesund's Plains go to mine Stockholm's Hill (3 in 4T), 4th Worker sent to road western Wheat (1+3+1+3T)
Workers from Yek sent south to (help) mine Grass-tiles near Bergen, which (given that we now have 35 Workers for 13 towns!) I switch to a Rax (4T, Pop7 in 2T)
Worker near Reyk begins mining Hill (12T), because there are no other useful jobs nearby
Workers near Stav begin roading BGrass (3T) and chopping Forest (4T)
We are now AVERAGE vs. Russia, but still WEAK vs. Arabia?!?
IBT
Trond: Settler
Treasury warning!

T 125, 50 BC
Redlined Horse retreated to Hareid, eArchers arrive outside Kufah -- Horse will arrive next turn (a Russian Settler-pair is blocking the road)
Birka now at Pop4 with empty food-bin --> Duct (24T, growth in 7T)
Yek now at Pop3 with empty food bin, so MM'd to 5fpt (12T to Gran-build, not including IBT-shields) ready to do 2T Workers at Pop5-6
Yek's and Aarhus' Workers dispersed to road Forests (1+3T)
New Settler sent to found OrangeDot -- Trond can build 1 more Settler for the southern fish (ship-chain is waiting), and then it needs a Harbour, Worker-joins to Pop12 and a raised LUX%-rate
vGalley from Reyk sent to blockade Cope's coast from incoming Aztec Galleys
GAME SAVED -- will finish this tomorrow