TLM01 - Apocalypse Now
- Thread starter TheLoneMan
- Start date
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
The Dutch town of Delft.
We may need to talk settler strategy. I think the one that got beat to the horse shouldn't travel too far to settle. Varna perhaps should switch from rax to settler and claim the silks. The two settlers in queue could go south to fill out our core. We will have more Bab landings soon to be sure.
We may need to talk settler strategy. I think the one that got beat to the horse shouldn't travel too far to settle. Varna perhaps should switch from rax to settler and claim the silks. The two settlers in queue could go south to fill out our core. We will have more Bab landings soon to be sure.
ThERat
Deity
settling on blue dot will make them angry and will sooner or later get a war, which I don't mind really...the rest can taste our nukes later anyway.
I would not dismiss all the money that is out there to sell our techs...maths to Mongols etc...
I would not dismiss all the money that is out there to sell our techs...maths to Mongols etc...
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
I'm not sure I'd sell the Mongols the time of day. They're the ones we need to kill first. Math maybe since they won't use it to build much arty. HBR to Mao for 157 gold is a no-brainer. That's a premium for the tech. But the vet warriors should be prioritized in the near future. Cash for upgrades won't help without the base units.
ThERat
Deity
Actually nobody really bothers about that currently...
I agree we should not give the Mongols too much, but I guess they will acquire lower techs anyway in the near future, might as well sell them before they demand it away.
SimpleMonkey
King
My thought would be to sell Philo around, as there are a number of folks out there with cash that we could use. We need to hook that iron up fast and spend what we have on upgrades.
Give in to demands, I would say. It's just going to be annoying to be at war forever with some fool on the other side of the world. And if we have too much money on hand, they're going to come calling.
By the way, it makes me insane angry when I get beat out by one turn by another civ's settler. May Hammy taste the fury of the dromon war machine.
I would avoid settling right next door, though, but somewhere nearby to block off the coast. The other settlers in que would make it to the eastern silks (lavender dot) before the lost horse settler would.
Give in to demands, I would say. It's just going to be annoying to be at war forever with some fool on the other side of the world. And if we have too much money on hand, they're going to come calling.
By the way, it makes me insane angry when I get beat out by one turn by another civ's settler. May Hammy taste the fury of the dromon war machine.
I would avoid settling right next door, though, but somewhere nearby to block off the coast. The other settlers in que would make it to the eastern silks (lavender dot) before the lost horse settler would.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Let's clarify that what we need is at least 15 vet warriors. Until that time or the Mongols hit us from behind, the iron has little value.
The Babylonian are really a problem. But it was clear that they will come, because they have no space on their island. The biggest problem was, that we have to less worker to road the way to our settling spots. That have been the 3 turns they beat us.
If we don't settle at the horse, we hardly will get on. The russians are the only one, who has an extra horse and seems to have no iron. That will be a potential trade.
The Babylonian have 2 horses (+"our horse"), but that will be expensive, I think. The mongol doesn´t have a horse yet. So a war against them wouldn´t bring us one.
Changing the rax to a settler is an good option to grap the silks.
If Istanbul and Adrianople starts the warrior production after the settlers, the 15 vet. warriors are build fast.
Trading indeed has the problem that we then have really a lot of money. And til the contacts between the civs aren´t developed they can accumulate more. The mongols for example still have no contact. There is no need to trade now with them. Let them save more money. We only have to hit the point, at which we can sell them a tech before they researched it themselves.
If we don't settle at the horse, we hardly will get on. The russians are the only one, who has an extra horse and seems to have no iron. That will be a potential trade.
The Babylonian have 2 horses (+"our horse"), but that will be expensive, I think. The mongol doesn´t have a horse yet. So a war against them wouldn´t bring us one.
Changing the rax to a settler is an good option to grap the silks.
If Istanbul and Adrianople starts the warrior production after the settlers, the 15 vet. warriors are build fast.
Trading indeed has the problem that we then have really a lot of money. And til the contacts between the civs aren´t developed they can accumulate more. The mongols for example still have no contact. There is no need to trade now with them. Let them save more money. We only have to hit the point, at which we can sell them a tech before they researched it themselves.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Don't worry about horses right now. That's not important until chivalry. As long as the iron holds out, we're fine.
SimpleMonkey
King
No word from D'Art or Tim yet. 
If neither of them takes it today (Friday), I'll take it for a spin tomorrow afternoon.
I wasn't quite thinking earlier when I said we had to get that iron hooked up. AFTER we pop out those 15 warrior, THEN we hook up the iron. As long as we have the cash, we might as well spend it on something good.
Then we just have to wait for Fred to jump. I figure we can count on him for that.
The other advantage to coastal cities is that we can start building our dromon fleet. That's what's going to make Hammy cry, I think. Actually, if we do get into an AW situation, a hefty fleet of dromons will eventually discourage anyone from trying a sea invasion at all. They'll stay put on their own tiny islands.
If neither of them takes it today (Friday), I'll take it for a spin tomorrow afternoon.I wasn't quite thinking earlier when I said we had to get that iron hooked up. AFTER we pop out those 15 warrior, THEN we hook up the iron. As long as we have the cash, we might as well spend it on something good.
Then we just have to wait for Fred to jump. I figure we can count on him for that.
The other advantage to coastal cities is that we can start building our dromon fleet. That's what's going to make Hammy cry, I think. Actually, if we do get into an AW situation, a hefty fleet of dromons will eventually discourage anyone from trying a sea invasion at all. They'll stay put on their own tiny islands.
TimBentley
Deity
I won't have time today, so I'll go after SimpleMonkey.
SimpleMonkey
King
Deal. I treat this as a swap with Tim and play tomorrow.
SimpleMonkey
King
And we're off!
Preflight Look to see what our trade opportunities are. Fred will empty the Mongol treasurehouse for us (292g) if we sell him Philo, Hannibal will cough up 175g for the same, Hammy is good for 80g, China will also empty the treasure house if we sell him Writing to the tune of 157g, and so on down the line. My only worry is that if we stay so rich without the muscle to back it up, we're going to start seeing demands. Rude savages.
We now know everyone we are going to know. Still some map left to explore, but I think we've met everybody.
Lots of folks have iron and horses hooked up already. This is also not good. Nice to know that the AI is terrible at sea invasions. And it's also good that our dromon can sweep the seas clean for this era and much of the next. Fred is our only real immediate concern.
BTW, I'm still snarly about Hammy stealing our horses.
Theodora is still the smartest girl at the party.
Turn 0 (950BC) Crank research up to 90%. It shows no gain in turns on researching Republic, but that will change as we plant a few more cities.
I shop around Philosophy, emptying the world's treasure houses and destroying everyone's college fund. Everybody is willing to hand over every penny except for Xerxes, for some reason. He stubbornly hangs on to 3g. Next gain is 946g. I spend a goodly sum building embassies, and learn the following.
Joan has 3 cows and 1 wheat outside Paris, horses and iron, and the Pyramids. Paris will be a lovely town for us to set up a vacation house in someday. Paris is also garrisoned with 25 assorted troops, including vet swords and some chariots.
Alex also has horses and iron, but not quite the set-up that Joan does. 8 hoplites guard Athens. He also has a settler sitting there, so he's definitely run out of room.
Hannibal only has horses so far, and only 3 Numidian troublemakers in Carthage. He's working on the Great Lighthouse.
Monty is not worth worrying about. Tenochtitlan is a pop1 slum. guarded by 4 spears. He has neither horses nor iron.
The Vikings are in even worse shape -- Trondheim is at pop2 waiting to grow enough to cough out another settler. Three spears. No iron or horsies.
Amsterdam has the naked bronze guy which has only helped produce more cash for Willliam to hand over to us. Horses, iron, and 4 spears. Hannibal is totally going to beat him the the GL.
Everyone else we already have embassies with. Our bank account still stands at 1542g. We are bronze age Bill Gates.
No ROP or other agreements with anyone.
Send our frustrated settler east towards the silks. Unless a Mongol settler magically appears out of the fog, I can't see how he can beat us to it. Other Byz settlers to follow.
Send a worker back to Varna to bring water to the Nicean wheat.
No other moves left. The builds look good.
Hit enter.
IT The Babs send another ship our way, almost certainly headed for our silks. This will not do. William starts on the precious wonder, the Mausoleum, as do the Aztecs, Mongols, and French. Izzy starts on the GL (good luck). Hammy goes for the ToA and the Mausoleum both. Hey, if that's what they want to spend their time building.
Turn 1 (925BC) Our dinkyboats sail around some. Set workers to build roads.
IT Xerxes also decides to invest in the Mausoleum. Hannibal and Sven, too. We should be seeing a lot of very expensive temples in the not so distant future.
Also, it looks like our borders with Mongolia are now more or less in place. Fred plunks a town 5SW of our incense city.
Turn 2 (900BC) Keep moving our settler east. Gotta beat those lousy Babs. Some more sailing and coastline revealed.
IT Incense is now hooked up!
China asks our wounded dinkyboat to keep on moving. Greeks join the MoM and ToA party. Joan wants the GL.
Turn 3 (875BC) Turn the beer taps off. We're now researching at 100%. Our turns for Republic should drop some more once we get some more towns built.
Con finishes its settler, and I start in on a warrior. He will be a glorious swordsman someday.
Send the settler up north to build a coastal city near our stolen horses.
Dinkyboat 3 makes a suicide run for another isolated coast along the Persian continent. There's still a lot of unknown territory that way.
Caesarea starts work on rax.
IT Is that a second Bab galley heading toward our shores?
Xerxes starts on the GL. See above comment on expensive temples.
Turn 4 (850BC) Workers irrigate and build mines. I notice that the Vikings have built a town in the tundra peninsula at the far northeast of our continent. Dinkyboat 3 survives the ocean crossing and gets to work mapping out northern Persia.
IT Dinkyboat 3 just barely survives a barb galley ambush. Oh, and William just beat us to Republic.
The only thing I can think of is that a barb hut gave it to him. Crap and double crap. We still have 27 turns to go before we get it. I'm hoping that we'll still have ignorant neighbors to get some trade value. I don't see the point in throwing away the beakers and starting something else.
A Viking galley shows up right next to our silks. Oh no you don't. I'm gonna have to set down in place to discourage this foul maneuver. It's not our dot-map choice, but it is a coastal city that'll be CxxC with Nicea. Here's where we're setting up shop.
Turn 5 (825BC) Build Heraclea in place to thwart a Viking settler landing. Sven may have nobody on board, but I have no wish to gamble. Set a handy worker over to chop for a rax and then hook up the silks.
And a barb camp with horses just appeared at the bottle neck with the northeast peninsula. Send a spear over to block the drunk barb raiders.
We have a settler now in Adri, and I'm puzzled as to where to send him.
Finally decide to send our guy with a spearman down the west coast. There's more desert than I'd like down there, but the coast is nice for building a navy, and it'll be good land once we irrigate from that lake.
IT A helpful Mongal warrior kills the barb horse and disperses the camp. Huh. The Netherlands are now a Republic. Can't beat one turn anarchy, can you?
Turn 6 (800BC) More of the above. Fred has his iron hooked up.
IT Xerxes grumbles about our dinkyboat, and decides to start on SoZ. Hmm, Ancient Cavs and Immortals. Good thing he's our friend.
Fred sends a small contingent towards Caesarea, but I don't think he means anything by it. I hope.
Turn 7 (775BC) Much the same. Buy a slave from Hammy, since we're not hurting for cash and we can always use more brute labor.
IT And of course Hammy decides that 120g is not enough for him, and he demands that we fork over an additional 88g. I knew that a fat bank account was going to be tempting. We comply. For now.
Turn 8 (750BC) Again, some worker moves and getting two more settlers in place. Fred has set up a town right by the southern incense and the lake. Oh well. This continent is almost filled up.
Micromanage for cash and growth. Warriors are our primary build right now.
The other guys are getting in touch with each other, I think, cutting into our trade monopoly. I was thinking I could sell another tech to Hammy and get our money back, but he's now at tech parity with us. I check around the wheel, and so far most everyone is still behind. Xerxes is only behind by Polytheism. William has the Republic but not Myst, Math, or HB. (Now I'm sure he got Rebublic from a bunch of chicken-killing, dirt-scratching, inbred barbarians. He won't sell, but it looks like he hasn't sold to anyone else either.
IT Well, this should be interesting. Hammy just decided to invade ... France! Let's see how he does.
Aztecs, who still don't have CB, start to work on the GL. See above about expensive temples.
Turn 9 (730BC) We build Trebizond south of Con, and Chalcedon to the north. Both coastal cities, which we like. They both have spear garrisons, so I start them to work right away on harbors.
I don't see any French cities turning from pink to red yet.
IT Izzy may have just switched from GL to MoM, or she's hoping for two wonders.
China, of all people, gets Monarchy.
This requires some investigation.
Turn 10 (710BC) Start some pretty obvious worker tasks. Mao will not trade us Monarchy for Math, Philo, CoL, MM, and HB all combined. Greedy swine. We'll have to wait for the price to go down.
How did all these barbarian tribes get so smart??
And that's it. In sum, we still have hefty cash reserves, even running at a research deficit. (I swear, it really will pay off in the end.) The other guys are starting to build their bank accounts back up. We're currently at 12 warriors with two more ready to pop next turn. A worker is slowly making his way to Iron Hill to hook us up in a bit for the big upgrade. With Fred having iron for plenty of swords as well, we may want to start investing in catapults. Like, a lot.
We hit some bad luck with those PhD barbarians.
We are also up three more cities, with not that much more room to grow.
I also seem to be ******** as far as keeping track of turns go, because I'm finishing out at 710BC. The next player might want to even the turns out.
Here's a pic of our empire, wide screen to give a better idea of our territory. We should have a discussion about where, if anywhere, to settle next.
And here's the >>SAVE<<
Preflight Look to see what our trade opportunities are. Fred will empty the Mongol treasurehouse for us (292g) if we sell him Philo, Hannibal will cough up 175g for the same, Hammy is good for 80g, China will also empty the treasure house if we sell him Writing to the tune of 157g, and so on down the line. My only worry is that if we stay so rich without the muscle to back it up, we're going to start seeing demands. Rude savages.
We now know everyone we are going to know. Still some map left to explore, but I think we've met everybody.
Lots of folks have iron and horses hooked up already. This is also not good. Nice to know that the AI is terrible at sea invasions. And it's also good that our dromon can sweep the seas clean for this era and much of the next. Fred is our only real immediate concern.
BTW, I'm still snarly about Hammy stealing our horses.
Theodora is still the smartest girl at the party.
Turn 0 (950BC) Crank research up to 90%. It shows no gain in turns on researching Republic, but that will change as we plant a few more cities.
I shop around Philosophy, emptying the world's treasure houses and destroying everyone's college fund. Everybody is willing to hand over every penny except for Xerxes, for some reason. He stubbornly hangs on to 3g. Next gain is 946g. I spend a goodly sum building embassies, and learn the following.
Joan has 3 cows and 1 wheat outside Paris, horses and iron, and the Pyramids. Paris will be a lovely town for us to set up a vacation house in someday. Paris is also garrisoned with 25 assorted troops, including vet swords and some chariots.
Alex also has horses and iron, but not quite the set-up that Joan does. 8 hoplites guard Athens. He also has a settler sitting there, so he's definitely run out of room.
Hannibal only has horses so far, and only 3 Numidian troublemakers in Carthage. He's working on the Great Lighthouse.
Monty is not worth worrying about. Tenochtitlan is a pop1 slum. guarded by 4 spears. He has neither horses nor iron.
The Vikings are in even worse shape -- Trondheim is at pop2 waiting to grow enough to cough out another settler. Three spears. No iron or horsies.
Amsterdam has the naked bronze guy which has only helped produce more cash for Willliam to hand over to us. Horses, iron, and 4 spears. Hannibal is totally going to beat him the the GL.
Everyone else we already have embassies with. Our bank account still stands at 1542g. We are bronze age Bill Gates.
No ROP or other agreements with anyone.
Send our frustrated settler east towards the silks. Unless a Mongol settler magically appears out of the fog, I can't see how he can beat us to it. Other Byz settlers to follow.
Send a worker back to Varna to bring water to the Nicean wheat.
No other moves left. The builds look good.
Hit enter.
IT The Babs send another ship our way, almost certainly headed for our silks. This will not do. William starts on the precious wonder, the Mausoleum, as do the Aztecs, Mongols, and French. Izzy starts on the GL (good luck). Hammy goes for the ToA and the Mausoleum both. Hey, if that's what they want to spend their time building.
Turn 1 (925BC) Our dinkyboats sail around some. Set workers to build roads.
IT Xerxes also decides to invest in the Mausoleum. Hannibal and Sven, too. We should be seeing a lot of very expensive temples in the not so distant future.
Also, it looks like our borders with Mongolia are now more or less in place. Fred plunks a town 5SW of our incense city.
Turn 2 (900BC) Keep moving our settler east. Gotta beat those lousy Babs. Some more sailing and coastline revealed.
IT Incense is now hooked up!
China asks our wounded dinkyboat to keep on moving. Greeks join the MoM and ToA party. Joan wants the GL.Turn 3 (875BC) Turn the beer taps off. We're now researching at 100%. Our turns for Republic should drop some more once we get some more towns built.
Con finishes its settler, and I start in on a warrior. He will be a glorious swordsman someday.
Send the settler up north to build a coastal city near our stolen horses.
Dinkyboat 3 makes a suicide run for another isolated coast along the Persian continent. There's still a lot of unknown territory that way.
Caesarea starts work on rax.
IT Is that a second Bab galley heading toward our shores?
Xerxes starts on the GL. See above comment on expensive temples.
Turn 4 (850BC) Workers irrigate and build mines. I notice that the Vikings have built a town in the tundra peninsula at the far northeast of our continent. Dinkyboat 3 survives the ocean crossing and gets to work mapping out northern Persia.
IT Dinkyboat 3 just barely survives a barb galley ambush. Oh, and William just beat us to Republic.
The only thing I can think of is that a barb hut gave it to him. Crap and double crap. We still have 27 turns to go before we get it. I'm hoping that we'll still have ignorant neighbors to get some trade value. I don't see the point in throwing away the beakers and starting something else.A Viking galley shows up right next to our silks. Oh no you don't. I'm gonna have to set down in place to discourage this foul maneuver. It's not our dot-map choice, but it is a coastal city that'll be CxxC with Nicea. Here's where we're setting up shop.
Turn 5 (825BC) Build Heraclea in place to thwart a Viking settler landing. Sven may have nobody on board, but I have no wish to gamble. Set a handy worker over to chop for a rax and then hook up the silks.
And a barb camp with horses just appeared at the bottle neck with the northeast peninsula. Send a spear over to block the drunk barb raiders.
We have a settler now in Adri, and I'm puzzled as to where to send him.
Finally decide to send our guy with a spearman down the west coast. There's more desert than I'd like down there, but the coast is nice for building a navy, and it'll be good land once we irrigate from that lake.
IT A helpful Mongal warrior kills the barb horse and disperses the camp. Huh. The Netherlands are now a Republic. Can't beat one turn anarchy, can you?
Turn 6 (800BC) More of the above. Fred has his iron hooked up.
IT Xerxes grumbles about our dinkyboat, and decides to start on SoZ. Hmm, Ancient Cavs and Immortals. Good thing he's our friend.
Fred sends a small contingent towards Caesarea, but I don't think he means anything by it. I hope.
Turn 7 (775BC) Much the same. Buy a slave from Hammy, since we're not hurting for cash and we can always use more brute labor.
IT And of course Hammy decides that 120g is not enough for him, and he demands that we fork over an additional 88g. I knew that a fat bank account was going to be tempting. We comply. For now.
Turn 8 (750BC) Again, some worker moves and getting two more settlers in place. Fred has set up a town right by the southern incense and the lake. Oh well. This continent is almost filled up.
Micromanage for cash and growth. Warriors are our primary build right now.
The other guys are getting in touch with each other, I think, cutting into our trade monopoly. I was thinking I could sell another tech to Hammy and get our money back, but he's now at tech parity with us. I check around the wheel, and so far most everyone is still behind. Xerxes is only behind by Polytheism. William has the Republic but not Myst, Math, or HB. (Now I'm sure he got Rebublic from a bunch of chicken-killing, dirt-scratching, inbred barbarians. He won't sell, but it looks like he hasn't sold to anyone else either.
IT Well, this should be interesting. Hammy just decided to invade ... France! Let's see how he does.
Aztecs, who still don't have CB, start to work on the GL. See above about expensive temples.
Turn 9 (730BC) We build Trebizond south of Con, and Chalcedon to the north. Both coastal cities, which we like. They both have spear garrisons, so I start them to work right away on harbors.
I don't see any French cities turning from pink to red yet.
IT Izzy may have just switched from GL to MoM, or she's hoping for two wonders.
China, of all people, gets Monarchy.
This requires some investigation.Turn 10 (710BC) Start some pretty obvious worker tasks. Mao will not trade us Monarchy for Math, Philo, CoL, MM, and HB all combined. Greedy swine. We'll have to wait for the price to go down.
How did all these barbarian tribes get so smart??
And that's it. In sum, we still have hefty cash reserves, even running at a research deficit. (I swear, it really will pay off in the end.) The other guys are starting to build their bank accounts back up. We're currently at 12 warriors with two more ready to pop next turn. A worker is slowly making his way to Iron Hill to hook us up in a bit for the big upgrade. With Fred having iron for plenty of swords as well, we may want to start investing in catapults. Like, a lot.
We hit some bad luck with those PhD barbarians.
We are also up three more cities, with not that much more room to grow.
I also seem to be ******** as far as keeping track of turns go, because I'm finishing out at 710BC. The next player might want to even the turns out.
Here's a pic of our empire, wide screen to give a better idea of our territory. We should have a discussion about where, if anywhere, to settle next.
And here's the >>SAVE<<
lurker's comment:
Death to the Babylonians!IT Is that a second Bab galley heading toward our shores?
Or maybe it will be Libraries or Catapults...
WTH??? They aren't Religious! Cheaters!
How can he build expensive temples without CB?
Someone from the far future must have built a time machine and came back in time to share these secrets with the barbs, who in turn are sharing these secrets with any civ that meets them.How did all these barbarian tribes get so smart??
...
We hit some bad luck with those PhD barbarians.
TimBentley
Deity
Got it. I should play tomorrow (edit: delay that a day).
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
I have serious reservations that it will. We need this cash for upgrades to swords and later MI, not saving a turn or two to get Republic.
When I started the research, no one was even close to tech parity. By the time the 50 turns will elapse, not that many civs will have it which is a factor in decreasing cost. The other factor which cuts the research turns is city growth which we already know is limited due to terrain. We want to be careful about applying these concepts without giving consideration to what is the overall strategy and situation. One size doesn't always fit all.
ThERat
Deity
I agree with M60A3TTS in this case. The cost for republic is so high, that we should do that via min research. With the few cities we have, we aren't going to speed that up by a lot. The cash however could get us a lot of stuff.
Even if the AI demands some away.
Even if the AI demands some away.
I also to M60A3TTS. We have done 20 turns on min. research, have only very little and few towns. Every worker and settler throwed the research back and will if we continue to settle at the last places.
And remember: An upgrade of a warrior costs us 60 gold. So about 1000 gold will the upgrading of our vet warriors cost. We have not that much money to much.
A "good" Info is that the mongols have horses now. So their might be one for our later game.
The first enemy should be the mongol, so we slowly should make him angry. Settling on the orange dot should be a beginning.
Using the Dromon has the bad thing to trigger our golden age. We are not yet in the position top use it. At the end of the war against the mongol it should be a good time.
And a dotmap with potential settling points for discussion.
edit:
@choxorn: I don`t think the republic is a choice for us. Even the extra commerce won´t be able to compensate the WW. Trading for monarchy is our goal. We must hope, that the AI has researched construction and currency to trade and sending us into the middle ages.
And remember: An upgrade of a warrior costs us 60 gold. So about 1000 gold will the upgrading of our vet warriors cost. We have not that much money to much.
A "good" Info is that the mongols have horses now. So their might be one for our later game.
The first enemy should be the mongol, so we slowly should make him angry. Settling on the orange dot should be a beginning.
Using the Dromon has the bad thing to trigger our golden age. We are not yet in the position top use it. At the end of the war against the mongol it should be a good time.
And a dotmap with potential settling points for discussion.
edit:
@choxorn: I don`t think the republic is a choice for us. Even the extra commerce won´t be able to compensate the WW. Trading for monarchy is our goal. We must hope, that the AI has researched construction and currency to trade and sending us into the middle ages.
Similar threads
