[RD] To a Flag Covered Coffin

[Timsup2nothin]

Sure, it's not that I disagree with this, I just think there were other factors probably more important. After all, a college degree is no guarantee of upward mobility on its own. The most important reason may simply be the brute fact that so much capital was destroyed during the war.

Plus the exploding population. So reasons overlap, but as a clear result the GI bill definitely distributed wealth downward in opposition to the forces towards concentration that have been allowed to run amok for the past four or five decades.

 

[Sommerswerd]

From a practical standpoint the wild turkey Franklin was suggesting is about as far removed from the domesticated turkey you are referring to as it would be possible to get within the same species. I would assume that even if it were the national bird the domesticated version would be considered a 'mere cousin' and still get eaten.

You mean you hope

On another note... Wild Turkey is pretty good, but it packs a nasty wallop in the morning

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You mean you hope

On another note... Wild Turkey is pretty good, but it packs a nasty wallop in the morning

There's a difference between drinking Wild Turkey and eating wild turkey. If anyone ever invites you to Thanksgiving and says they have a wild turkey, or even a 'free range raised' turkey bring your own feast. That delicious bird you are accustomed to is about as natural a product as Twinkie filling.

 

[metalhead]

Sure, it's not that I disagree with this, I just think there were other factors probably more important. After all, a college degree is no guarantee of upward mobility on its own. The most important reason may simply be the brute fact that so much capital was destroyed during the war.

Not only that, we loaned everyone money that they could use to buy things from us to rebuild their destroyed countries. Nice little job creator, that Marshall Plan.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Sure, it's not that I disagree with this, I just think there were other factors probably more important. After all, a college degree is no guarantee of upward mobility on its own. The most important reason may simply be the brute fact that so much capital was destroyed during the war.

I remember seeing IIRC a Michael Moore documentary where he invokes basically this... that our eventual main competitors in the automotive and aerospace industries were decimated by WWII, which paved the way for a golden age in American manufacturing...

There's a difference between drinking Wild Turkey and eating wild turkey. If anyone ever invites you to Thanksgiving and says they have a wild turkey, or even a 'free range raised' turkey bring your own feast. That delicious bird you are accustomed to is about as natural a product as Twinkie filling.

I dunno... I've had wild birds before. They just taste more "gamey", which to me is just more muscular, sinewy, veiny and oily. In other words more textured, chewy, flavourful and less dry.

I'd be up for trying a wild turkey... with or without some Wild Turkey to go along with it .

 

[Lexicus]

Not only that, we loaned everyone money that they could use to buy things from us to rebuild their destroyed countries. Nice little job creator, that Marshall Plan.

Plus the exploding population. So reasons overlap, but as a clear result the GI bill definitely distributed wealth downward in opposition to the forces towards concentration that have been allowed to run amok for the past four or five decades.

IIRC Piketty discusses at some length the reasons for the greater equality experienced in the US and Europe just after the war. I'll see if I can find a good summary of the reasons he talks about. I think there was an article at Naked Capitalism which discussed, in turn, the limitations of Piketty's summary.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I dunno... I've had wild birds before. They just taste more "gamey", which to me is just more muscular, sinewy, veiny and oily. In other words more textured, chewy, flavourful and less dry.

I'd be up for trying a wild turkey... with or without some Wild Turkey to go along with it .

They don't particularly taste bad...as you say, a bit more "gamey." But if you are a fan of the white meat you better get two of them. Only the flightless mutant domesticated variety produce the giant slabs of tender white brest meat that most people associate with a turkey feast.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You've never had Turkey at my house... I don't care for that bland dry meat... I go through great pains to keep the whole bird as much like dark meat as possible. So a gamey bird with a more chewy breast section would be fine by me.

I didn't know wild turkeys could fly... get off the ground sure... but fly south for the winter?

And don't you worry... pretty soon we'll all be eating cruelty-free lab-grown meat-substance, completely removed from anything remotely resembling a sentient creature... and we shall call them... Cahoona Meatsteaks

 

[onejayhawk]

Wild turkeys are very different. Here is a recipe for turkey from an actual French chef.

Oh yes my timing is waaaaay off but heck, you never listen to me anyway.
Here is MY version of cooking a turkey and its... shocking!
Try to keep an open mind as most of these tips will be the opposite of what you've ever heard about Turkey so grab a seat first and if you like good food you might even try this one day

My main issues with Turkey are a rather bland taste and a dry meat. And of course my number one problem is the habit of Americans to OVERCOOK it of course

First the choice of bird: the difference in taste between industrial, battery turkey and free range is huge, I mean really huge. In a blind tasting I'd get 10 out of 10 for sure. But OK the price difference can be also huge so I understand everyone does not have 50 or a 100 bucks to invest in a turkey but hey its that once a year occasion remember and if you were cooking fillet steaks for 12 people it'd cost you a 100 bucks too. At least try not to buy a frozen animal, please

So what you need is the KellyBronze variety, the Rolls Royce of the Turkey. Its actually an English variety sorry Yanks. Free-ranging at least, if not organic. The meat from this variety is much fatter than other turkeys and the bones have a sweet, slightly wild taste which makes the meat taste so much better.
Also you should not buy a big bird, the bigger the more bland it tastes, rather 2 small birds than one biggie. An average KellyBronze is 5kg and thats my recommended weight for turkey.

Here are my cooking tips:
- Let the bird out at room temperature a minimum 2 hours before cooking, no compromise.
- Do not stuff the turkey http://www.cybertavern.net/speakeasy/images/smilies/WTH.gif yes you've heard right, stuffing increases the cooking time and results in dryer meat. Stuffing will also absorb most of the juices out of your turkey meat, drying it even more

- Good stuffing can be perfectly cooked outside of the turkey and added to the cooking juices right at the end. If you need tips on how to do that, let me know. An onion or herbs can be used instead of stuffing.
- Do not use an oven with a fan or with hot air (dont know how you call it in US), again that dries out. Preheat at 180C for 30min.
- Salt and pepper your turkey (no brining) and it lay breast down in an oven tray! Thats the real secret to success: the juices and fats are mostly in the bottom of the bird so laying it down breast down means all those juices will sip through your big white breasts and create extra juiciness.
- You can have some vegetables at the bottom of the tray as it will help to make your own delicious gravy.
- The KellyBronze only needs 20mins per kilo! of cooking time. Other turkey usually require 30 min. max. so this shorter cooking time is also a factor in the quality of the meat as the less you cook it the better. So 5 kg= only 1h40 min cooking time

- Halfway through throw a glass of water with vermouth in the baking tray. No basting further needed

- 30 minutes before the end, turn the turkey around so that you get your get that great skin crispiness, since the skin will have absorbed the fat which was at the bottom, you will get a very nice crispy skin from this method! And with this no need to cover with stupid (drying) tin foil...
- Use a thermometer to get the cooking perfectly right, prick it in the thickest part of the meat (the breast) and wait til you hit 68C and... it's cooked!
- Take it out and let it rest in a warm place uncovered! for 30 minutes! That part is essential
- Right before serving throw the juices on top of it and...SERVE!

The results are usually phenomenal, most people than say that they actually never had turkey before they had mine and I even cooked this dish for an American friend of mine who is a restaurant owner and one of NYC most famous chef and he was gobsmacked, since then he has used my recipe for his restaurant and even got an article in the NYTimes for the quality of his turkey
​

Game turkey would fit his requirement for more flavor in the bird.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You've never had Turkey at my house... I don't care for that bland dry meat... I go through great pains to keep the whole bird as much like dark meat as possible. So a gamey bird with a more chewy breast section would be fine by me.

I didn't know wild turkeys could fly... get off the ground sure... but fly south for the winter?

And don't you worry... pretty soon we'll all be eating cruelty-free lab-grown meat-substance, completely removed from anything remotely resembling a sentient creature... and we shall call them... Cahoona Meatsteaks

I'm certainly in favor of injection marinade. The problem with the wild turkey is that there just isn't much breast meat to work with.

As to flying...they fly up into trees to roost. It isn't like migration or anything, but they certainly get around. A domestic turkey can barely waddle about under the weight of their giant unused flight muscles.

My cahoona meatsteaks are always made with actual meat, no grain fillers!.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Well you fill the cattle with grain... delaxian wheat to be precise right?

Here are my cooking tips:
- Let the bird out at room temperature a minimum 2 hours before cooking, no compromise.
- Do not stuff the turkey http://www.cybertavern.net/speakeasy/images/smilies/WTH.gif yes you've heard right, stuffing increases the cooking time and results in dryer meat. Stuffing will also absorb most of the juices out of your turkey meat, drying it even more

- Good stuffing can be perfectly cooked outside of the turkey and added to the cooking juices right at the end. If you need tips on how to do that, let me know. An onion or herbs can be used instead of stuffing.
- Do not use an oven with a fan or with hot air (dont know how you call it in US), again that dries out. Preheat at 180C for 30min.
- Salt and pepper your turkey (no brining) and it lay breast down in an oven tray! Thats the real secret to success: the juices and fats are mostly in the bottom of the bird so laying it down breast down means all those juices will sip through your big white breasts and create extra juiciness.
- You can have some vegetables at the bottom of the tray as it will help to make your own delicious gravy.
- The KellyBronze only needs 20mins per kilo! of cooking time. Other turkey usually require 30 min. max. so this shorter cooking time is also a factor in the quality of the meat as the less you cook it the better. So 5 kg= only 1h40 min cooking time

- Halfway through throw a glass of water with vermouth in the baking tray. No basting further needed

- 30 minutes before the end, turn the turkey around so that you get your get that great skin crispiness, since the skin will have absorbed the fat which was at the bottom, you will get a very nice crispy skin from this method! And with this no need to cover with stupid (drying) tin foil...
- Use a thermometer to get the cooking perfectly right, prick it in the thickest part of the meat (the breast) and wait til you hit 68C and... it's cooked!
- Take it out and let it rest in a warm place uncovered! for 30 minutes! That part is essential
- Right before serving throw the juices on top of it and...SERVE!

The results are usually phenomenal, most people than say that they actually never had turkey before they had mine and I even cooked this dish for an American friend of mine who is a restaurant owner and one of NYC most famous chef and he was gobsmacked, since then he has used my recipe for his restaurant and even got an article in the NYTimes for the quality of his turkey
​

Game turkey would fit his requirement for more flavor in the bird.

No joke... this guy's method is exactly mine (besides all that fancy turkey buying stuff) and I can vouch for it. No marinade injection needed. I highlighted my steps in bold.

1. Get the turkey to room temperature before cooking
2. Don't stuff it
3. Cook the stuffing separately and use the juices from the cooked turkey to season the stuffing (gravy too)
4. Bake don't Convect
5. Salt and Pepper all over and inside (also oil and garlic powder)
6. Cook it breast down (MOST IMPORTANT BY FAR)
7. Flip onto the back with 30 mins left to get crispy golden breast skin
8. Pour the remaining juices all over the carved meat before serving (if you cut up the meat before serving... I do)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Cooking breast down is all well and good, but injected marinade is key. Nothing like being shot full of butter to make it moist, and nothing like having that butter infused with seasonings to keep it from being bland. I make my own marinade by melting a bunch of butter and simmering it for a couple hours with a 'teabag' full of sage, oregeno, garlic, bayleaf, and basil.

 

[onejayhawk]

We use a rack and have cut up carrots, celery and onions underneath. The whole batch goes in the blender. Let it set a while and skim fat off for gravy.

For the next day

Turkey and Sweet Potato Soup

2 Tbsp butter
1 medium to large onion, thinly sliced
1 1/2 teaspoons dried sage
1-2 pounds sweet potatoes, peeled and cubed
1 1/2 quarts turkey broth or stock
2 tsp salt
1/4 pound fresh green beans, cut into 1/4-inch pieces or 1 cup frozen
1/4 teaspoon fresh-ground black pepper
1 pound turkey cutlets, cut into approximately 1 1/2-by-1/2-inch strips

Saute the onion in butter until translucent. Add sage
Continue cooking until just starting to caramelize
Add the sweet potatoes, broth, and 1 teaspoon of the salt.
Bring to a boil.
Reduce and simmer until the sweet potatoes are tender, about 10 minutes.
Transfer half the soup to a food processor or blender and puree. Return
the pureed soup to the pot and add the green beans, the remaining
salt, and the pepper. Simmer until the beans are starting to turn tender, about 5 minutes.
Stir in the strips of turkey.
Cook until the turkey is just done, about 2 minutes.

For cooked turkey, use about 1 1/2 cups. Pumpkin or squash can be used for potatoes, but double amounts and reduce stock to 1 quart. I like a little lemon thyme in addition to the sage.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We use a rack and have cut up carrots, celery and onions underneath. The whole batch goes in the blender. Let it set a while and skim fat off for gravy.

J

This merits pondering. Not just as blender fodder for gravy either. Get the right timing for throwing stuff in there and you should produce a well flavored side dish with minimal effort and without committing any range space.

 

[onejayhawk]

This merits pondering. Not just as blender fodder for gravy either. Get the right timing for throwing stuff in there and you should produce a well flavored side dish with minimal effort and without committing any range space.

You could add when you turn the bird. Drippings will flavor it and vice versa.

J

 

[Sommerswerd]

The turkey soup that comes from Thanksgiving turkey is legit... I always make it... but now I want to try a butternut/pumpkin/sweet-potato soup with the juices too. Thanks for the idea J.

 

[metalhead]

I dunno, one time the whole guest list of a Super Bowl party (not mine) got the runs from gravy made thusly.

 

[onejayhawk]

Gloves in the kitchen.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Gloves in the kitchen.

J

I think in this particular case the key is, quoting you, "Let it set a while and skim fat off for gravy." Mess that up a little bit and the meal passes through like grease through a goose, so to speak.

 

[metalhead]

The weird thing was the gravy came out smelling exactly the same as it did going in. This was weird because it was a pretty pleasant smell.