To Firaxis - a pre-patch petition for boosted goody huts

[MadDjinn]

Might remind to much of ruins granting you a partial map overview (usually showing you the position of another civ or CS).

How about ruins granting you the location of a CS + some additional points too boost it's neutral stance towards you? Or ruins granting you a CS location and a special request from them? 'Do this and the CS will grant you a free military unit/food/culture' sort of thing

yes, but when you get the map you don't meet the AI/CSs. this would do that. If you're in a race with an AI scout to meet them first, you would get 30g, instead of 15. This could also be useful for CSs that are on an island just out of sight reach from the mainland.

I like the idea of the hex itself the ruin lay on transforming into a GP building, resource or gaining a plot bonus modifier to food, gold, hammers, beakers, culture.

by changing the hex itself into something else, it represents the ruin "became something" and the tile becomes a future prospect for yourself and any opponents.

most of the rest was not so go, but this could be. the Ruin becomes a 'tourist attraction' ->+2g on that tile.

You can also do the 'unit gets 15 XP' bit, which mostly means they'll get a promotion (early) and could be fairly useful.

 

[roguepro92]

your scout/warrior/worker has stepped in bunch of barbarians raiding the hut still.
you have lost your unit.

 

[Calouste]

Dear Firaxis,

You are making this game too hard

And not getting a Gold Star every time I do something makes me very sad

Please keep it easy.

Bye,

Timeweaver

5char

 

[thadian]

I've thought about it and disagree. Goody huts should remain good, although the choices could be a great alternative to random events.

I think barb camps could get something simmiliar, except with a higher chance of it beign bad.

For example, goody huts could give you choices like:

''You found manuscripts of an old religion''
a: Use them for religious purposes; +20 culture
b: Send your scientists to deciber their meaning; spend 50 gold with a 80% chance of gaining 75 beakers
c: Store them in the library; + 1 culture and science per turn (requires library in closest city)

So that every hut gives you three options. One just giving a flat bonus, the second requiring some investment and the third needing some requirement.

Another one:

''You found specialized weaponry''
a: Equip your unit, your unit is upgraded
b: Use them for specialized training rituals, your unit disappears but units produced in the capital get +15 xp
c: Use them as arnaments, +50 culture (requires baracks)


Now, the same could be done with barb camps. Except slightly different.

''The barbarians offer you food if you spare them''
a: Accept. Gain +5 food in the nearest city, a barbarian unit spawns 2 tiles away
b: We will take what we want and spare none. Gain + 5 food and the usual reward, two barbarians spawn near you.
c: Convince them to join you. 80% to gain a unit, 20% chance your unit turns into a barbarian.


Obviously. The barb camp event should only happen about 20% of the time when taking a camp. Whereas Goody hut events should always appear.

This way we all know goody huts only offer good stuff. But barb camps might offer stuff that could be both good or bad.

So another one for barb camps:

''In the camp you find a slaved prisoners'' (if there is a civillian in a camp)
a: Free them, choose if you want it or return it
b: Use them as slaves, + 20 (same as two chopped forests) in nearest city. Diplomatic penalty. 20% chance one of your workers randomly becomes a barbarian
c: Perhaps we can start a new settlement! Lose your unit and the worker. 60% chance to gain a settler near the capital.

I like this - a lot. an implementation of our ideas would make the game more engaging and give the player more of a feel of control.

 

[TimeWeaver]

"Your Civilians are pleased with this wonderous ruin!"
"A: Ancient Ruin becomes a "Landmark"
"B: Capital recieves X turns of "We love the King Day!"
"C: Enter an X Turn Golden Age!"

"You have discovered a cache of exotic weapons"
"A: Unit gains 15 exp"
"B: Unit upgrades to a (choose unit)"
"C: Unit gains sturdy boots. this unit expends no movement to enter or move in rough terrrain".

"You have discovered an exotic habitat!"
"A: Create a natural habitat! - Hex gains +2 food"
"B: Sell it to the highest bidder! - Hex gains +2 Gold"
"C: Exploit it for industrial means! - Hex gains +2 Hammers"

"You have found a retired blacksmith"
"A: Sieze his weapons! - 2 Advanced Swords appear, equip unit gives 10% combat modifier"
"B: Appoint him a general! - Military Acadamy appears on hex."
"C: Convert his workshop into a manufactury! - Manufactury appears on hex."

I like the idea of the hex itself the ruin lay on transforming into a GP building, resource or gaining a plot bonus modifier to food, gold, hammers, beakers, culture.

by changing the hex itself into something else, it represents the ruin "became something" and the tile becomes a future prospect for yourself and any opponents.

Thadian presents a very entertaining scenario! I would be very happy if it looked something like that in the near future. It makes for neat strategic choices and all!

My original post was mostly about some very easy fixes before the patch is released to the situation as is, and thus I opted mostly for very simple solutions. But I hope they in the direction of Thadian's.

P.S.
Calouste: My point is that it should be fun and varied, not dull and lame. The difficulty aspect is something you put in my mouth. I even supported a suggestion of backfiring goody huts. And please refrain from making phoney qoutes, it may be regarded as trolling in these forums.

 

[civnoob13]

"Your Civilians are pleased with this wonderous ruin!"
"A: Ancient Ruin becomes a "Landmark"
"B: Capital recieves X turns of "We love the King Day!"
"C: Enter an X Turn Golden Age!"

"You have discovered a cache of exotic weapons"
"A: Unit gains 15 exp"
"B: Unit upgrades to a (choose unit)"
"C: Unit gains sturdy boots. this unit expends no movement to enter or move in rough terrrain".

"You have discovered an exotic habitat!"
"A: Create a natural habitat! - Hex gains +2 food"
"B: Sell it to the highest bidder! - Hex gains +2 Gold"
"C: Exploit it for industrial means! - Hex gains +2 Hammers"

"You have found a retired blacksmith"
"A: Sieze his weapons! - 2 Advanced Swords appear, equip unit gives 10% combat modifier"
"B: Appoint him a general! - Military Acadamy appears on hex."
"C: Convert his workshop into a manufactury! - Manufactury appears on hex."

I like the idea of the hex itself the ruin lay on transforming into a GP building, resource or gaining a plot bonus modifier to food, gold, hammers, beakers, culture.

by changing the hex itself into something else, it represents the ruin "became something" and the tile becomes a future prospect for yourself and any opponents.

Items is something i would like to see (remember Fall Further FFH mod-mod for civ 4?).

They give a different form of upgrade that gives an ability without just giving exp or a free promotion and its transferable to other units - best of all, the units stay as-is and don't turn into another unit.

This is way too OP. Who wouldn't chose a landmark in the first scenario, for example, which is now nearly a free stonehenge?

Expelling no movement in rough terrain could mean that a unit can move like 10 tiles - way, way way too OP. A free unit upgrade is already on the verges of being OP; being able to choose what to upgrade to is silly. I could go on about how OP some of these are. I like the concept of being able to choose, but not the execution at all.

But leaving on the positive, the idea of being able to choose your reward from goody huts is fantastic - I love it. It will add a lot to the game I think and make it more interesting. It will make early game, probably the best part, even better.

"

I've thought about it and disagree. Goody huts should remain good, although the choices could be a great alternative to random events.

I think barb camps could get something simmiliar, except with a higher chance of it beign bad.

For example, goody huts could give you choices like:

''You found manuscripts of an old religion''
a: Use them for religious purposes; +20 culture
b: Send your scientists to deciber their meaning; spend 50 gold with a 80% chance of gaining 75 beakers
c: Store them in the library; + 1 culture and science per turn (requires library in closest city)

So that every hut gives you three options. One just giving a flat bonus, the second requiring some investment and the third needing some requirement.

Another one:

''You found specialized weaponry''
a: Equip your unit, your unit is upgraded
b: Use them for specialized training rituals, your unit disappears but units produced in the capital get +15 xp
c: Use them as arnaments, +50 culture (requires baracks)


Now, the same could be done with barb camps. Except slightly different.

''The barbarians offer you food if you spare them''
a: Accept. Gain +5 food in the nearest city, a barbarian unit spawns 2 tiles away
b: We will take what we want and spare none. Gain + 5 food and the usual reward, two barbarians spawn near you.
c: Convince them to join you. 80% to gain a unit, 20% chance your unit turns into a barbarian.


Obviously. The barb camp event should only happen about 20% of the time when taking a camp. Whereas Goody hut events should always appear.

This way we all know goody huts only offer good stuff. But barb camps might offer stuff that could be both good or bad.

So another one for barb camps:

''In the camp you find a slaved prisoners'' (if there is a civillian in a camp)
a: Free them, choose if you want it or return it
b: Use them as slaves, + 20 (same as two chopped forests) in nearest city. Diplomatic penalty. 20% chance one of your workers randomly becomes a barbarian
c: Perhaps we can start a new settlement! Lose your unit and the worker. 60% chance to gain a settler near the capital.

"

I LOVE this! I'm guessing the +5 food is a one-off thing? The only thing is I think that the +50 culture is a little OP, and the +1 culture and science maybe also just a tad OP.

 

[gozpel]

You are all dreaming or smoking something...

You think they want the game to be fun? Nah.
You think they want to spend money to make it funnier? Nah.
You think they think about these fun ideas? Nah.

So sober up boys and girls, you have what you have until someone makes it fun. As in modders.

Sorry for taking you back to reality.

 

[civnoob13]

You think they want the game to be fun?

Yes, that way they will sell more in the expansion.

You think they want to spend money to make it funnier?

Yes, that way they sell more in the expansion.

You think they think about these fun ideas?

Yes, that way they sell more in the expansion.


Happy taking you back to reality.

 

[JamesCivFan]

I cannot agree more with the above post.

 

[CYZ]

I LOVE this! I'm guessing the +5 food is a one-off thing? The only thing is I think that the +50 culture is a little OP, and the +1 culture and science maybe also just a tad OP.

The 5 food would be one time only yes.

I don't think 50 culture is that OP as you need a barracks. Unless you build a barracks first you're not going to get it untill you have at least and probably two policies so it might actually be less of a boost than the 30 culture now.

Same story for 1 culture and science really. Although most people get their library up pretty early it's still not that much and become negligible pretty fast.

Anyway, they were all just off the top of my head and many more are not so hard to be thought up. Would all have to be playtested ofcourse.


As for the idea of a free GP improvement, I don't know. Getting it closeby would be extremely OP whereas getting it in a place where you'd never build a city anyway would be useless. Getting it close to another civ would even be bad.

How about this though a resource appearing though? So where the hut was a bonus or luxury resource appears. Another option, they show you the closest by hidden resource. Knowing the location of one source of iron could be a nice advantage, perhaps a bit OP.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I like when they give me a map of miles and miles of empty ocean. Maybe my explorers are just looking at the wrong side of the parchment.

 

[Furycrab]

I never liked goody huts... and I hate you for even mentioning the "bad" goody huts.

Playing Civ 4 getting a bad goody hut had me resetting my map so many times I eventually just disabled them. To those unfamiliar, you could get a goody hut where all the sudden your prized scout or warrior ends up being surrounded by 4 other angry warriors. If you were REX to any extent this could very easily lead you to lose a settler/City to barbs. I didn't play thru "all" of Civ 4s patches and changes, but that was always pure evil.

I love that they give a small bonus to scouting players, however they don't need to stupidly good. The AI gets most of them on higher difficulties anyways.

 

[tflst5]

Some changes i wouldn't mind -

Free citizen - should be changed to a set amount of food rather than extra citizen. I have found 3 of these huts before in succession and it gave me such an unfair edge in the game. In the late game these huts are just as good.

Culture - i like the amount it was set at. Gave a free first or second policy, but wasn't too great if you found it later.

Free Tech - should be changed to a set amount of science towards an available tech. Maybe that discovers an early tech, but it won't put a dent in later techs. Discovering these in the late game is very unfair.

Unit promotion - fine as is

Gold - kinda weak, not sure it belongs considering barb camps give gold.

Barb Locations + Maps - absolutely hate these. No value.

New possibilities i wouldn't mind seeing:

Free contact with a random undiscovered civ - would be intriguing in those games where you are isolated on a large land mass.

Point out locations of nearby natural wonders and/or other goody huts

Free 3 turn golden age

Free great person points

I try to stay away from happiness since natural wonders give that, and stay away from anything that is permanent.. since that can be quite imbalanced in longer games.

 

[Bibor]

Hate to be the party breaker here, but how much credit do you want for what's basically walking over a tile? The culture ruins and free tech are already slightly too much, not to mention on higher difficulties they benefit AIs too much already. The whole idea of goody huts/ruins is to make the exploration part a bit more interesting. That's all.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Hate to be the party breaker here, but how much credit do you want for what's basically walking over a tile? The culture ruins and free tech are already slightly too much, not to mention on higher difficulties they benefit AIs too much already. The whole idea of goody huts/ruins is to make the exploration part a bit more interesting. That's all.

I wouldn't want them too powerful (the GA, etc., are a bit over the top). Some more varied ones might be fun though.

 

[Thormodr]

Hate to be the party breaker here, but how much credit do you want for what's basically walking over a tile? The culture ruins and free tech are already slightly too much, not to mention on higher difficulties they benefit AIs too much already. The whole idea of goody huts/ruins is to make the exploration part a bit more interesting. That's all.

I understand. Leave them either boring and/or overpowered. Don't try and make them more interesting or anything. No one likes to role play anyway.

Leave them as they are then. Same goes with City States. (ie Those historical vending machines) Lol.

Flavour be damned and heaven forbid anything bad should happen to befall you.

 

[TimeWeaver]

Bibor: I've seen how you play in your great youtube videos. They are very informative, but also you keep your cool like a sixpack in Antarctica. I do not play like that, I have some weird part in my brain that actually get immersed in exploring maps, so...

Thormodr:...Thormodrs last post is my sentiment exactly. Bibor and any other hut sceptic, nothing stops you from turning huts off. And while you're at it, why not turn off those pesky barbarians as well. Then random events are kept at a minimum.

I did actually like random events in civ 4, even the wild animals were fun (although I did restart sometimes because of them).

Short-term changes:
turn those two drab huts into something fab, Firaxis!

Long-term changes:
Make the huts more immersive, with more options and even choices.
And please flesh out the city states as well.

I think, or at least hope, that there are plenty of players who would enjoy that special variety and element of surprise in their civ games.

 

[Bibor]

Hm, interesting. Why do you guys automatically tie less powerful with less interesting? Variety is (almost always) a good thing, but most suggestions in this post were too powerful an effect for, again, a simple walk over a tile. There's a myriad "non-powerful yet entertaining" solutions to variety in goody huts. Unique unit promotions, a few hammers that go into one of your cities, a permanent +0.5 happiness bonus for your empire...

As for my "coolness" in my videos, there are very good reasons for that. I believe viewers should not be forced to spend countless hours watching my games. If I can say something in 2 videos, I won't make 10 videos. I try to keep my games as short as possible, thus need for speed, thus need for focus. I also try to explain what I do while keeping the abovementioned pace.

 

[Thormodr]

Hm, interesting. Why do you guys automatically tie less powerful with less interesting? Variety is (almost always) a good thing, but most suggestions in this post were too powerful an effect for, again, a simple walk over a tile. There's a myriad "non-powerful yet entertaining" solutions to variety in goody huts. Unique unit promotions, a few hammers that go into one of your cities, a permanent +0.5 happiness bonus for your empire...

As for my "coolness" in my videos, there are very good reasons for that. I believe viewers should not be forced to spend countless hours watching my games. If I can say something in 2 videos, I won't make 10 videos. I try to keep my games as short as possible, thus need for speed, thus need for focus. I also try to explain what I do while keeping the abovementioned pace.

I have no problem with them making them less powerful at all.
Making them more interesting would be nice and by no means does that mean adding game breaking abilities or advantages. I like roleplaying first and foremost.
That includes negative things happening to you. Roll with the punches and adapt to the situation.

I do understand though that that is not everyone's play style. Making it optional is best so that it pleases everyone.

That includes random events as well.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Hm, interesting. Why do you guys automatically tie less powerful with less interesting? Variety is (almost always) a good thing, but most suggestions in this post were too powerful an effect for, again, a simple walk over a tile. There's a myriad "non-powerful yet entertaining" solutions to variety in goody huts. Unique unit promotions, a few hammers that go into one of your cities, a permanent +0.5 happiness bonus for your empire...

As for my "coolness" in my videos, there are very good reasons for that. I believe viewers should not be forced to spend countless hours watching my games. If I can say something in 2 videos, I won't make 10 videos. I try to keep my games as short as possible, thus need for speed, thus need for focus. I also try to explain what I do while keeping the abovementioned pace.

Actually, I think TOO powerful would be less interesting. Imagine getting a great engineer or a million gold or something just by popping a hut. I'd probably end up reloading.

Now I'll be the first to admit though that I'm a little disappointed when the tribe gives me a map of the ocean or something.