Tokugawa never joins a permanent alliance?

[Tatran]

I tried this twice to get Tokugawa as ally.
After sharing a long war or defensive pact, the message was clear
he still didn't like me enough while he was friendly and +20 relation
modifiers. Conclusion : Tokugawa never joins a permanent alliance
or this is maybe a bug.

 

[KMadCandy]

tokugawa is a pain. i'm amazed you got him to +20!! i don't ever remember him even opening borders with me.

 

[Elandal]

Alexander, Napoleon, nor Tokugawa will never join a permanent alliance. All other leaders will do so when Friendly.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Friendly's not really enough. I never got PA's until it hits +12 or above.

 

[Elandal]

I don't think the modifier above friendly matters - iirc you need to have defensive pact or mutual military struggle for some number of turns, not sure about any other requirements. I haven't ever played with PA turned on - all I know is based on reading on others' experiences about them

Looking at the CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml, I can find PermanentAllianceRefuseAttitudeThreshold and CONTACT_PERMANENT_ALLIANCE (under ContactRands and ContactDelays). No idea what the latter two mean, first is quite clear and confirms to me that indeed - Alex, Nappy and Toku are the only leaders that will never accept a PA as their refusalt treshold is Friendly (refuses the diplomatic option at Friendly and below).

 

[iamnleth]

Heck, I couldn't even get a friendly Ghandi to accept a defensive pact.

 

[Elandal]

Reading Sulla's report on RB Adventure Eleven (Divided We Fall) it seems to me that you have to have either common war or a defensive pact for some number of turns to get a PA. No amount of friendliness will overcome that. Apart from that requirement comes the attitude, and I can't find any indication that you need +20 over Friendly or other ludicurous numbers - attitude comes in levels from Furious to Friendly, and all activities seem to be tied to the level, not a specific number.