Tomb Builders - Egypt Cultural Deity Pangaea all Standard

[maltz]

Hi,

This is my 5th story. You can see the first 4 in the links below. They pretty much represent my learning of Civ5. So game fundamentals and basic knowledge are covered more in earlier stories. More complicated and advanced discussion and analysis show up in later stories.

Roman - Domination http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=406745
Greece - Domination http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=407701
Aztec - OCC, Diplomatic http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=408770
Siam - OCC, Science http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=410200

I have never done a Cultural game before. This is my first attempt.
Civilization: Egypt
Settings: Deity, Standard sized Pangaea, Standard speed, all default settings.
AI Civs: Handpicked the Civs I used in my previous stories: Rome, Greece, Aztec, and Siam. The other 3 leaders are random.

This deviates from my familiar Tiny Earth Marathon game. I actually started a cultural game on Tiny Earth first, but I got a very good start and forced an insane cease fire deal at early game (see the picture in the spoiler below). As there wasn't too much challenge left, I started this game on a setting I am not so familiar with to add some learning and excitement.

Spoiler :

I abandoned the ultra-useful New Random Seed setting, which makes the game a lot "simpler". Even without New Random Seed, there are still so many ways to change an unfavorable outcome - just don't make the same decision that will lead to that doomed unfavorable outcome.

I was tempted to click OCC, but I think it is harder to play a non-OCC Culture game, since I can't just conquer dozens of AI's cities and not worry about consequences (of increasing the total culture requirement for policies). And I might actually spawn a few cities of my own just to see if it helps or not (just in case I got no Iron, no Coal, no Oil, and no Aluminum again).

Another problem is that my computer can't really handle maps larger than Tiny. My game speed drops significantly at later turns. But since this is a standard speed game, not Marathon, I will not see 600+ turns and might be able to survive 300+ turns. Please forgive me if I have to stop the story half way because the game became too slow to endure.

Finally, I always welcome suggestions and comments. Thanks for your inputs in advance.

I picked Egypt for its wonder builder trait (+20% production while building wonders). And I specifically want to beat the Deity AIs for Stonehenge (+8 culture). Then, I plan to rush for Pyramid (+1 Great Engineer point) and Himeji Castle (+2 G-Eng point). Then I plan to use a Great People build (Hagia Sophia, National Epic, Garden) to get Great Engineers to rush the subsequent important wonders.

Egypt's unique building Burial Tomb actually offers LESS culture than a Temple, which it replaces. But Burial Tomb is maintenance-free and gives 2 smiley faces. So I might be better off to have 1 or 2 extra cities with Monument and this unique building.

Egypt's leader is Ramesses II. I will call him Ramey to be brief.

Spoiler :

001. This is every miner's dream! Marble! 6 luxurious resources! Gold, Silver, Gem! And it came from the first try!
It actually comes from my previous game, where I did too well to make it exciting. Just to show you how lucky one can be.
Let's see if I can get this lucky in this game...

Chapter 01. Standard world, non-standard variables

Spoiler :

002. This is my second map. The first one was on a narrow peninsula with very few workable tiles. This one looks a lot better. There are immediately 2 Cotton and 1 Spice in sight. And when the warrior explores a bit, a Marble is revealed. Marble! Wonder!

So I decided to give this map a try. However, I don't like the default location. So I moved the Settler unit to sit on the middle Cotton to get closer to Marble and an instant resource for sale when I finish researching Calendar. I will have at least 4 luxurious resources, many river tiles, and some hills for production.

There is no mountain for Thebes (Egypt's capital) to build an Observatory, but I don't need that much science in a culture game anyway. Just east of that Cotton tile is a Desert, so there is potential for Solar Plant in end game. That's the only +production building that I missed in my previous Siam game.

Spoiler :

003. I usually start my Marathon game by building a Worker first. But now there are Ancient Ruins around (I used all standard settings, even not OCC). Some bonuses from the ruins can be really nice. So I first queued a Scout to see if I can step on a few more ruins to prevent the Deity AIs' starting Scouts from robbing all ruins from me.

Spoiler :

004. I don't like Ancient Ruins because they provide too many random variables. But by disabling them, I do make the game easier since Deity AIs start with 2 scouts at the beginning.

Ramey's first ruin was a boring Warrior to Spearman upgrade. It should help him to survive against barbarians better. I noticed that on Standard speed, barbarians are much more active and dangerous than on Marathon.

Ramey's second ruin was +30 culture. That's a great start for a Culture game.

Spoiler :

005. Since this is my first Culture game, I only have a rough idea of which 5 policy trees to fill. Tradition, Piety, Patronage, and Freedom seems to be logical choices. Tradition helps a small empire using a defensive approach. Piety gives extra culture points and +2 Social Policy. Patronage is always nice as City States are very helpful. Freedom makes subsequent policies easier and provide more Great People. I am not sure about which 5th tree to take yet.

Spoiler :

006. From experience, I know I need to purchase a few tiles in the capital to accommodate the rapidly increasing population from the Tradition policy. So I bought the other Cotton tile and then the Spice tile for my workers to improve. Purchasing that Cotton increases Thebes' income immediately.

I ended up buying 4 tiles (1, 2, 3, and 4) to make the Desert tile drop down to base price. That was my plan - I will then buy the Desert tile (or better, the Hill tile SW of it) and then get to the Marble. But I end up not buying the Desert Tile anyway, since the natural expansion of the city got the Hill tile just west of the Marble. It was a 1-in-3 shot and I won it.

Spoiler :

007. The exploration of the starting warrior, now spearman, continued. That unit met lots of City States, too. The greeting gold also helped in tile purchase. I got +60 gold in the 3rd ruin and a useless tech Archery in the 4th ruin. Then I never saw another ruin. Is 4 ruins average? I have no idea.

In my mind, the best ruin is a key technology that is planned to be researched next (saves a lot of turns) and capital population +1 (also saves a lot of turns). But I got none of that. I just hope that the AIs don't get free Pottery and Calendar tech and started building Stonehenge from Turn 2.

Spoiler :

008. I noticed that only 10 votes are required for a Diplomatic Victory in this setting. There are 16 City States in the game. So the UN builder only needs to buy over half of the City States.

As a result, it will be a challenge to keep rich AIs from scoring a Diplomatic Victory in "mid-game". Then I will have to block AIs from scoring a Science Victory in end-game. If I have too many cities, my cultures will accumulate too slowly and won't be able to prevent AIs from winning a Scientific Victory.

The culture game is sick!

Spoiler :

009. Bought the base-priced Marble tile! Finally. Later, the city's natural expansion covered the Wheat tile (W) NE of the Marble.

Spoiler :

010. Since Stonehenge is everything, I was willing to sacrifice Thebes' population growth to increase production. Later on, when my worker finished the Wheat farm SW of Thebes, I switched the Spice citizen to work on the Hill tile west of Marble, and chopped the Spice forest to further accelerate the construction.

Spoiler :

011. Sold my first resource, the Cotton where Thebes was founded on, to my closest neighbor, Genghis Khan. Just in case he declares war on Ramey very early, I can sell it to someone else immediately.

I will skip all the subsequent resource trades unless something interesting comes up.

Spoiler :

012. With cash from resource trade, I purchased a second Worker to help. From experience, 2 workers for an OCC capital is about just right. But with Pyramids, 2 workers became a little too much and will run out of things to improve at about 2/3 of the game.

Just when I was ready to send my second worker out, a Barbarian warrior emerge from the dark shadows. So you are so aggressive now, huh? Now I had to recall my Spearman from far, far away.

Spoiler :

013. The first world survey arrived. Of course, Ramey had the smallest army. There are still two Civs Ramey had not met, but I know who they are anyway. (I assigned Monty, Alex, Caesar, and Ramky. Only two of them already showed up.)

This chart also gives an interesting comparison of which Warmonger's army is the biggest.

Spoiler :

014. This is Ramey's world in the Ancient Era. This is only an approximation of each leader's location (with subsequent knowledge from the Classic and Medieval Era) for the ease of illustration. Ramey starts in the northwest corner of the Pangaea.

Ramey has two neighbors. On the northeast there is warmonger Genghis Khan of Mongolia. On the south (actually more southeast) is warmonger Oda Nobunaga of Japan. Ramey has two warmonger neighbors! Ramey must befriend one and weaken the other.

Further away, there is Ramky of Siam further east, and Hiawatha of Iroquois further southeast. It is nice to have Ramky, a good competitor in a Culture/Science game. Then even further away there are three more warmongers, Caesar of Rome, Alex of Greece, and Monty of Aztec. All gentlemen, no ladies.

Spoiler :

015. On Marathon, I usually complete Stonehenge between turn 100 and 110. That's equivalent to Standard speed Turn 33-37. Although there are still 10 turns on the queue, I will chop down the Forest on the Spice. So I can get the Stonehenge on Turn 36. That's within expectation.

I was very confident until I got the news that somebody completed the Stonehenge on TURN 30! I have never seen AI completing Stonehenge on Turn 90 on Marathon. This AI probably got Calendar from a ruin, has Marble, or have lots of forest that were chopped during their Deity worker improvements.

I was so ready to restart the game (no big deal, I might get Calendar from ruins next time, too!) But of course I didn't, or you wouldn't be reading this. I had enough experience in the game to know that I can actually pause the AI's wonder construction if I make them go to war even 1 turn before the wonder's completion. Now if I know who was going to complete the Stonehenge, then go back to the previous turn...

(To be continued)

 

[Deussu]

Hehe, a new setup! Nice. Next up I wish to see a Suleiman game, a sincere moral game where you don't use any exploits. Suleiman because his absolutely rubbish!

 

[Civ'ed]

Go for it Maltz!

 

[maltz]

Hehe, a new setup! Nice. Next up I wish to see a Suleiman game, a sincere moral game where you don't use any exploits. Suleiman because his absolutely rubbish!

Hm is Ottoman useless? I looked at their unique units' description:

Janissary
it Heals all damage if destroys a unit, and gets a +25% combat bonus when attacking. Replaces the Musketman.
I am not sure whether these traits will carry over to Rifleman, Infantry, etc.
If they can, then Ottoman's infantry can't die on the field! (unless controlled by an AI)

Sipachi
It can move after attacking, has no movement cost to pillage, and gets +1 Extra Sight. Replaces the Lancer.
The highlight comes from the + movement and +1 Extra sight.
Combined with +1 Range, +1 attack, and Indirect Fire siege weapons...

1. Move Sipachi forward to reveal enemies (and pillage, why not)
2. Fire!
3. Move Sipachi back to avoid harm

So Ottoman is perfect for a late-start Domination game! And domination game is easy with +1 range, +1 attack siege weapons.

I am not sure what you mean by a "moral" game...
Define morality in gaming, please?
So do I have to give my AI friends 2000 gold when they demand so?
Can I still sell resources, which AIs cannot?

 

[Sparthage]

lurker's comment: Another one! You certainly know how to satisfy us lurkers.

 

[tamasei]

My bet is maltz will abandon culture victory at turn 258 and achieve total global domination at turn 312

 

[vanjito]

Hm is Ottoman useless? I looked at their unique units' description:

Janissary
it Heals all damage if destroys a unit, and gets a +25% combat bonus when attacking. Replaces the Musketman.
I am not sure whether these traits will carry over to Rifleman, Infantry, etc.
If they can, then Ottoman's infantry can't die on the field! (unless controlled by an AI)

I think it carries over, but I read somewhere that they nerfed the 'full heal' part to 1/4 - not sure (trying them out now with 'Renaissance era' start game)...

 

[Pouakai]

Another one, yay!

The jannisary ability does carry over

 

[Airey]

Janissary
it Heals all damage if destroys a unit, and gets a +25% combat bonus when attacking. Replaces the Musketman.
I am not sure whether these traits will carry over to Rifleman, Infantry, etc.
If they can, then Ottoman's infantry can't die on the field! (unless controlled by an AI)

The traits carries over. They're not rubbish. Just delay the attack window.
Janissary alone is enough to overcome all other shortcomings.
The only thing to worry about is to time and finance enough $ for mass upgrade, which can be done with early peace treaty.

Another option would be Germany without rivers, since there's a discussion about them @ the strategy thread. They're more unique to leverage, vs other civ types. Where your strategy would shine.

Persia without guaranteed Chinchen Itza is interesting.

Forest-less Iroquois is hmm, can evaluate the merit of moving settlers vs turns lost.

These are just suggestions, any civ is fine. Can't wait for your stories.

Your settings are good, those deity AIs aren't the easiest to rival with. Looking forward to the story.

And I specifically want to beat the Deity AIs for Stonehenge (+8 culture). Then, I plan to rush for Pyramid (+1 Great Engineer point) and Himeji Castle (+2 G-Eng point). Then I plan to use a Great People build (Hagia Sophia, National Epic, Garden) to get Great Engineers to rush the subsequent important wonders.

This would be interesting to watch. On top of building military units.

015. On Marathon, I usually complete Stonehenge between turn 100 and 110. That's equivalent to Standard speed Turn 33-37. Although there are still 10 turns on the queue, I will chop down the Forest on the Spice. So I can get the Stonehenge on Turn 36. That's within expectation.

I was very confident until I got the news that somebody completed the Stonehenge on TURN 30! I have never seen AI completing Stonehenge on Turn 90 on Marathon. This AI probably got Calendar from a ruin, has Marble, or have lots of forest that were chopped during their Deity worker improvements.

These are the intangibles people usually don't see with Ancient Ruins and Normal speed.
Cannot translate Marathon to Normal by simple multiplication/division.

 

[maltz]

Chapter 02. Classical Piety

From the Diplomatic Overview, I could see that it was Hiawatha of Iroquois who built the Stonehenge on Turn 30. So I returned to Turn 29’s Autosave and went to Hiawatha... (Probably due to my subconscious guilt, I forgot to take a screenshot of this. So you have to just read my descriptions.)

(1) Use Gold per turn to bribe Hiawatha to war Alexander. Alexander had already denounced Hiawatha, so the price was quite affordable.
(2) Use Gold per turn (2) for some cash from Hiawatha.
(3) Declare war on Hiawatha.

Like Hagia Sophia in my previous game, later I might pay a price for this...

Spoiler :

016. Ramey got his Stonehenge on Turn 36, accelerated by chopping down 1 forest.
At this turn, Ramey's workers haven't even started building a quarry on the Marble. I guess sitting on the Marble (like my Monty game) is the only way to seriously compete with AI or human players on Stonehenge. But can a human player survive in a game with other human players while playing cultural?

Spoiler :

017. I had enough culture points to get Aristocracy (+33% wonder production). I am sure it will come in handy later.

Spoiler :

018. I keep track of my research and build order. After Masonry, I researched Writing to unlock Library and National College. As National College is the best research building early game, I still plan to get it as soon as possible to not hopelessly fall behind AI technologically.

Then, I will get to Classical Era with Philosophy (unlocks Research Agreement) and Medieval with Theology (unlocks Burial Tomb and all kinds of culture-related stuff). Later on, I find that extensive RA is the only way to stay technologically competitive in a Culture game, since I have to focus on completely non-science and even non-financial buildings and wonders.

In terms of building, I was tempted to build the Monument next, but I recall that I should always finish Wonders first just in case some other AI rob it from me. So I started building the Pyramids, even though I will switch to the National College as soon as I rushed the Library.

Oracle was not an option - Ramky of Siam got it when I was still building the National College! And he completed the Great Library, too!

(missing picture here - accidentally got overwritten by the next)

018. Egypt actually has a "backyard". West of Thebes, there is a triangular peninsula that does not make contact to any other Civ. Barbarians are fierce here. This camp already captured a worker from CS Warsaw. That's nice, since I can get free influence points with Warsaw, a Cultural CS!

Spoiler :

019. 30 free influence! Same as Marathon. But 30 influences on Marathon is very different from 30 influence points on Standard. In Ramky's story, I had a little study on which speed favors alliance with City States, and concluded that City States is 3 times cheaper to buy in marathon, but 2 times more expensive to maintain. Overall 33% cheaper.

Well, I was wrong!

I didn't know that on Standard, 250 gold buys 35 influence, while on Marathon, 250 gold buys 25 influence.
So here comes the formal and correct analysis of City States comparison on Standard and Marathon:

Standard:
250 gold buys 35 influences. Decays at 1 per turn.
Initial investment = 7.14 gold per influence
Maintenance per turn = 7.14 gold/turn

Marathon (3 gold = 1 standard gold, 3 turn = 1 standard turn)
250 gold buys 25 influences. Decays at 0.67 per turn.
Marathon scaled to Normal
83.3 gold buys 25 influences. Decays at 2 per turn.
Initial investment = 3.33 per influence
Maintenance per turn = 6.66 gold/turn

Now you can see that on Marathon, City States are more than twice as easy to buy over, but the influence decays twice as fast. Overall, CS on Marathon is still 7% cheaper. Just not a big difference like 33%.

However, on Standard, it is way more economic to gain CS's favor by completing their missions, since the influence points gained from completing missions represent a lot of money. On Marathon, completing missions are far less useful, since very soon those points will decay away. Just cheaply buy them over.

For example, gaining 30 influence points from freeing a CS worker is equivalent to earning 214 gold. But in Marathon, the same 30 influence points is 300 "Marathon gold", which is only equivalent to 100 Standard gold.

Spoiler :

020. Purchasing buildings and units are relatively more expensive on Standard speed than on Marathon. A Library on Marathon costs 970 gold, which is 323.3 normal gold. But a Library on Standard speed costs 420 gold, 30% more! But playing on Standard speed also has its benefits...

Each Open Border is still 50 gold! This is equivalent to 150 gold on Marathon, where Open Border was still sold for 50 gold. 6 Open Borders = 1 Resource on Standard. (18 Open Borders = 1 Resource on Marathon.) That triple tourism income becomes very significant especially on larger maps with more Civs.

Spoiler :

021. Only 4 turns later, that stupid Worker got captured by Barbarian (another unit) again! Another 30 free influence from CS Warsaw! Plus the killing-barbarian-near-CS influence bonus (+5 per kill), Ramey instantly became an ally of the CS. All for free. Nice! Too bad I already busted their camp, so there was no more Barbarian units around to capture the worker yet again.

I think this could be a seriously effective strategy to get free CS alliance in early game. Just let a nearby barbarian camp capture their Worker again and again... The barbarian regenerates fast anyway.

Spoiler :

022. Since I went with all standard settings, I can no longer delay policies. Piety won't be unlocked until Philosophy is finished (9 turns left), so I have to pick another policy in Tradition.

I was looking at Landed Elite, which gives faster border expansion so I won't have to build Angkor Wat. But I need to activate Legalism (capital -33% unhappiness from population) first. Legalism itself is not a useful policy, since I am not going to run a large population in the capital in a Culture game. Later on, I will have enough happiness from City States' resources anyway.

But it turned out that this policy helped Ramey keep selling all his resources. Otherwise, at one point he would have to keep one Cotton to maintain a positive happiness. So it did save a little money.

Spoiler :

023. Soon, Ramey came to an important decision point. Does he want to play a One-city challenge, or Few-city challenge? More cities definitely make a Military/Science/Diplomatic game easier. But I am not sure about that in a Culture game... each additional city means 30% extra culture requirement.

Will the extra city give me 30% extra culture from its buildings, income, and Great People? A cultural game is long. If each extra city delays Ramey's victory by just 2 turns, what if the AI launches the Spaceship 1 turn before his delayed Utopia Project?

In addition, extra cities delay the construction of important National Wonders:

- National College - research +++
- National Epic - great people +
- Hermitage - culture +++

Extra cities also delay key policies, which I will rush with the utmost priority:

- Piety: Free religion - 2 free policies
- Freedom: Constitution - +100% culture in cities with a World wonder
- Freedom: Free Speech - 25% reduction in new policy

However, extra cities give extra income, which can used to buy Cultural City States’ alliance. The Cultural contributions of the CSs diminish over time (even if it increases a little with Era), since our own cities will get much higher culture points with all the +100% buildings and wonders. But CS's cultural contribution is still very significant in early-mid game. I had planned to run on 2 Culture CS allies by mid-game.

The capital's income should be able to support 1 CS ally (the extra gold goes to Research Agreements). An extra city, which is usually less well-located, should be able to support a second CS ally. This 2nd CS ally definitely provides more than 30% more culture in early game. So having 1 extra city actually makes obtaining key early policies faster.

How about two extra cities? If I can find a 3rd Cultural CS, sure!

3 cities - that's exactly what I went for, but I realized that I can't build a Garden in one of them (city is not along a river - didn't read that fine print again). And the 3rd cultural CS soon allied with Hiawatha and declared war on Ramey... that didn't work. So I came back to an earlier point to not spawn that 3rd city.

Ramey will have just 2 cities, then. I seriously considered robbing the capital of my closest neighbor, but gave that idea up since I want to try a very peaceful game with a minimal army. (As long as Ramey can keep Genghis Khan and Oda Nobunaga fighting each other, he should remain safe.)

Next, I have to decide when to have the 2nd city, Memphis. I think popping Memphis immediately after National College would be the best. And I can always wait for the completion of the current social policy in order to not generate extra points required for the current policy.

Then, I have to decide where. I have a pretty good spot for Memphis (M). There are 3 Cottons within a 3-tile radius. That's quite a lot of trade income (1 immediate, 2 by mid-game). There is also a Spice 4 tiles away that is probably accessible in late game. This spot also has access to a Wheat (the second wheat is on 0/0/0 Desert - what a joke), many flood plains, and some Hills for hammer. Not a bad place even for a capital! It is also only 4 tiles away from Thebes. So if I build a road after its population grows above 3 or 4, the trade route turns in a profit.

Nice. I like building roads. I am sick of OCC games where I build no road at all.

Spoiler :

024. I find Normal speed involves a lot more timing than Marathon, since things happen in a more compressed time frame. Here I have to time a few things:

(1) Get the next policy AFTER entering Classical Era (Piety tree), so I don't have to waste another policy point in Tradition.
(2) Pop the 2nd city AFTER getting the next policy. This can happen on the same turn. Just click the new policy first.
(3) Rush the Settlers 3 turns before popping the city, since it takes 3 turns to walk to the city site.

And of course, I have to pick a tech that enables me to enter Classical on time. That was done a few turns before already. I find this kind of planning a great charm of Civilization.

Spoiler :

025. On Marathon, each Settler unit costs 1010 gold, which is 337 gold on Standard. So again, units and buildings are 30% more expensive to rush on Standard speed than on Marathon. I should keep that in mind and rush fewer buildings and units.

Also, I am still not very used to the gold scale on Standard speed. I would never carry around 3600 gold on Marathon this early on - I would have thrown it on some City States already. Here I have 1200 gold on normal and didn't feel a thing! I will soon use up that gold for RAs and the 2nd Cultural CS.

So far, Ramey had no luck in signing RAs with others. Those who had cash didn't have Philosophy. Those who had Philosophy already signed RA with others and had no cash left. That's going to change soon.

Spoiler :

026. Philosophy completed. The Classic Era! It came a little sooner than expected due to the completion of the National College. 100% boost in Research just like that.

Spoiler :

027. Normally, I wouldn't even look at the Piety tree - but in a culture game this is the pillar stone! I will discuss the individual policies later. The activation bonus is just crap, though.

Spoiler :

028. Memphis founded! Haven't popped my own second city for a long time. That's refreshing. The Barbarians are so active in this area. Hopefully with the additional city healing, the starting Spearman can eventually bust their camp to the north. (It turned out that he can't!)

(To be continued)

 

[maltz]

Sorry - double post.

 

[Airey]

I didn't know that on Standard, 250 gold buys 35 influence, while on Marathon, 250 gold buys 25 influence.
So here comes the formal and correct analysis of City States comparison on Standard and Marathon:

Standard:
250 gold buys 35 influences. Decays at 1 per turn.
Initial investment = 7.14 gold per influence
Maintenance per turn = 7.14 gold/turn

Marathon (3 gold = 1 standard gold, 3 turn = 1 standard turn)
250 gold buys 25 influences. Decays at 0.67 per turn.
Marathon scaled to Normal
83.3 gold buys 25 influences. Decays at 2 per turn.
Initial investment = 3.33 per influence
Maintenance per turn = 6.66 gold/turn

Now you can see that on Marathon, City States are more than twice as easy to buy over, but the influence decays twice as fast. Overall, CS on Marathon is still 7% cheaper. Just not a big difference like 33%.

$ wise, the rate at getting to 250 @ normal isn't proportional to 250 @ marathon.
Likes how you add other intangibles in the later comments.
Other intangibles:
- AI allies CS first (more likely @ normal) = more cost for player
- growth rate =>more citizens earlier => different GPT rate (ie early Maritime ally)

Maybe you can revisit the issue @ end game. Seeing you have Greece and Siam.

 

[maltz]

Chapter 03. From Resource to Research

Previously I always sell Resources to get gold to raise army, to purchase buildings, and to bribe City States. In my first run up to about mid-game, I used the same strategy and became the tech leader - but I produced culture slowly. I can't win a culture game like that.

So I went back to an early point and altered my approach - I focused on Culture completely and rely on Research Agreements with everyone almost non-stop. Ramey's own research is extremely slow – needing the same number of turns to complete a tech as in a Marathon game. But I could still catch up with the AI, while getting the key techs required for key culture buildings as early as possible.

I also did some testing on how to get the desired tech in an RA. I will discuss that later.

With 2 cities, Ramey has 7 resources and 7 Open Borders to sell. That nets him about 80 gold/turn. Each RA costs 6.7 - 8.3 gold/turn. So he could afford to sign 6 RAs non-stop. Just not too much money left afterwards.

Spoiler :

029. In Classic Era, Civ leader's relationship begins to take shape. Let's start with Ramey.

Ramey previously declared war on Hiawatha of Iroquois in order to complete the Stonehenge. Nothing really happened from that war - Hiawatha sent only two scouts over to be killed by Ramey's extremely weak army of 1 (later, 2).

Ramey also got a slightly negative relationship with Genghis Khan, who covets Ramey's land (not good!). Fortunately, Oda Nobunaga of Japan approached Ramey for a Declaration of Friendship, followed by Ramky of Siam's same proposal. Ramey agreed with both. Allying with Japan is especially important, so Ramey, in the worst case, has to deal with only Mongolia.

And Ramey successfully bribed Japan to war Mongolia. So he remained safe with virtually no army.

While Hiawatha was bribed to war Alexander, their relationship soon made a turn for the worse. Alexander also declared war on Ramky. Originally, I thought Alexander will get into trouble by warring multiple neighbors, but it turned out that he is really good at this (he doesn't build wonders, just powerful units!).

Spoiler :

030. I planned to run 2 Cultural CS allies to rush to Piety's Free Religion and then Freedom's Constitution and Free Speech. So I spent Ramey's hard-earned gold to 2 Cultural CS, Warsaw and Vienna. Warsaw's alliance had almost dropped back to Friendly. Vienna was a new ally. Warsaw is located in Ramky's backyard, so he had very little competition. Vienna, on the other hand, was located between Japan and Egypt and was frequently bought over by someone else - not Japan, though. It was Greece!

Although giving more gold offers some extra influence points, each RA is only 250 gold. So I signed the RA instead throwing away gold that has no use for the next 30 turns. This is quite different from Marathon games, where one can easily spare 1000 gold to throw at a CS.

After signing RAs and purchasing a few really important buildings, I didn't have any gold left to ally with a Maritime CS. In fact, Egypt had no Maritime CS throughout the first half of the game (not sure about second half, because it hasn't happened!). I thought this is fine, since I am not going to run a huge population to accelerate research. Thebe's population was quite miserable in mid-game.

Then, I noticed a new, and big problem with a mediocre population - I will discuss that when the screenshot comes.

Spoiler :

031. In Classical Era, each Cultural CS gives +8 culture/turn. That's quite an important contribution to early culture points. I was thinking about delaying the alliance till Medieval (+12 culture/turn), but +8 each is not bad at all already.

Spoiler :

032. Ramey had been waiting for this moment for a while - Mr. Oda agreed to war the Great Khan for such a cheap price! Japan and Mongolia are not really neighbors; there is City-State-filled buffer zone in the middle. The two wouldn't really fight until quite a bit later. But Ramey is safe for a while.

Oda's war declaration got a denouncement from Khan, who also gave an interesting speech on Ramey. Apparently Khan hates Ramey as much as he hates Oda. But Khan did not denounce Ramey. Ramey is such a non-threat in the world. He is just here to build cultural wonders for tourists to see.

Spoiler :

033. As City State's missions are much more valuable than they were on Marathon, I try to complete as many as possible. But throughout the first half of the game, I only get two "mission possibles" - to find Aztec (as in the screenshot), and to bust a barbarian camp from a friendly Military CS. 80% of the other missions are about "destroying this CS for us".

Spoiler :

034. Completed the Pyramids after National College. Although not a super wonder, it provides another +1 Great Engineer point. That raises the generation rate of the first G-Eng by 100%! (The first point comes from Stonehenge.) I plan to use this G-Eng to pop the Himeji castle, which adds 2 more G-Eng points.

Spoiler :

035. I wanted to purchase the unimproved Wheat (3/0/1) tile in Memphis at the beginning, but it was always occupied by some Barbarians. So I lost a little population growth from there.

I only built the cultural buildings in Memphis, starting with the cheapest Monument, then moving to Burial Tomb. Those two already took me a long, long time to complete. Then I started to build a Garden, thinking that I can finally generate Great People points in Memphis. I realized one thing after picking Egypt: there is no Artist Specialist slot for Burial Tomb (but there is one in Temple, which it replaces).

Are Artist Specialists any good? They only generate +1 Culture (that's so miserable) and +3 G-Art points. I will probably use my first few G-Arts to build Landmarks in Thebes, unless there is some important strategic resource I need to get to. I end up not running any Artist Specialists in the first half of the game, so I can grow Thebe's population faster (and get more G-Eng to rush important wonders).

I only realized later that the Great People point pool is shared empire-wise. So Memphis will probably never see its own GP, since the GP generation rate in Thebes is way higher. But if I get just 1 GP from Memphis, the investment of the Garden in Memphis will be worthwhile! (There is no National Wonder for Gardens in all cities - National Garden does not exist.)

A lot later, I purchased a Workshop in Memphis to enable an Eng specialist (+2 hammer) and 20% production bonus on buildings. Then I started to build an Opera House, Museum... That's a lot later (probably 4-5 chapters later).

Spoiler :

036. Theology completed - Medieval Age! Researched the military techs next so I can decide whether to pop Memphis somewhere else... (And since you have already read about Memphis' location, I am bound to have Iron this time!)

Spoiler :

037. Normally I would rush for Patronage... and I actually did in my previous shallow run that ended up being the tech leader but cultural loser. In this altered approach, which I believe is much better for a cultural game (but a lot worse for the good of the Empire!), I am going to completely ignore Patronage, and go through the Piety policies to get Free Religion (+2 policies), and use that to unlock Freedom. My many RAs will push Ramey from Medieval into Renaissance just in time.

I had a little choice of whether to pick Organized Religion (25% faster Golden Age) or Mandate of Heaven (50% Happiness surplus goes into Culture) first. I picked the latter first, since Ramey's accumulated happiness was still quite far away from the first Golden Age. My one and half CS friends (one just got bought over by Greece) unfortunately had the same luxurious resource (Silver), so Ramey was running on a very low surplus Happiness. That makes Mandate of Heaven weak, too.

Later, I completed the Friendly Military CS's barbarian camp mission and invested another 250 gold to get an additional resource (Dye) for a while.

Spoiler :

038. While looking for Aztec, the Scouts found a Natural Wonder El Dorado... isn't it artificial?
An instant Culture +5 is totally awesome early game (very early +50% surplus food and +33% wonder production). I wish I had that in Egypt's capital.

Spoiler :

039. Here, our spearman caught another Barbarian worker! But that's actually Egypt's own captured worker. Later, I got really pissed off by these ever-regenerating pests and decided to... buy a Warrior.

Spoiler :

040. I actually have lots of Iron in this game - 8 units! Both are within Thebes' harvest radius.

After keeping them for a while but not needing them, I decided to sell them to Japan to help Oda fight Genghis Khan and his other enemies. Each unit of iron is worth 45 gold. I sold 7 of them, netting 315 gold - slightly better than a luxurious resource, actually.

Spoiler :

041. At this stage, Cultural points from Cultural CSs still plays a heavy role, so I invested another 250 gold (that's one tech!) to rob Vienna's alliance back from Greece. Of course, Greece bested me later, but Alexander might not have done anything. My natural influence decay is twice as fast as Greece...

Spoiler :

042. After Pyramid, I felt there was no more critically important wonder to build, so I completed Monument and Burial Tomb.

And here I bought my Warrior. It is cheaper to buy a Warrior (200g) then upgrade (90g) them to Swordsman, which costs 410 gold. Another factor that prompted me to spend 80% of a tech (RA is only 250g) to buy a crap unit is that Hiawatha's Scouts are here again. Although AI Scouts do not steal workers, they are still very annoying.

If this is a regular game, I would definitely get a huge loan from my target, rush a few Warriors (and upgrade them) and Catapults, and start warring. Later on, war might be unavoidable as I will have to give a hand to bring down the front runner.

Spoiler :

043. After getting Organized Religion, Ramey had just enough points to start his first Golden Age. Golden Age in Marathon lasts 20 turns (should be 30 turns for the universal 3X time scaling). So Golden Ages on Standard speed should be actually more useful than I thought on my Marathon games. Should Ramey build Chichen Itza?

Actually, Ramey's first RA wouldn't be completed until 5 turns later, and there was no guarantee that he would get Civil Service.

Spoiler :

044. Since I couldn't start Chichen Itza, I picked Hagia Sophia to build. Since the game will drag long, I might end up with 1-2 more Great People from it. With the help of Golden Age, it will only take 11 turns.

Spoiler :

045. Here I was able to capture a CS worker! But I don't really need it. I walked them home to build a few improvements and disbanded them. Too bad I can't return them to some other CS to get influence.

Ramey’s strings of RAs started arriving on Turn 83. Before that, I researched all the cheap filler techs below to make sure that I don't get any crap tech. I thought this would be the best strategy to get good RA results, until I realized that I can still get whatever I want. Let's cover that in the next chapter.

(To be continued)

 

[Civ'ed]

038. While looking for Aztec, the Scouts found a Natural Wonder El Dorado... isn't it artificial?

Well no one knows if it existed for sure

 

[maltz]

Chapter 04. Slingshot to Freedom

I don't like cliff hangers, so here I am back immediately to reveal how to get whatever tech you want from RA, even without the New Random Seed setting, just in case you don't know already.

I discovered this (whatever you want to call it) accidentally - I made some bad moves and went back a few turns to correct it. Then I noticed that everything on that turn happened as it did, but everything AFTER that turn happened differently. What does that mean?

Let's say on Turn 100 I get a RA due. If I load a save from Turn 99, I will always get the same RA tech on Turn 100.

But if I load a save from Turn 98, everything in Turn 99 will happen in the same way, but Turn 100 will be different. Very likely, I will receive a different tech if I restart from Turn 98.

It is likely that the game generates a new random number every turn. And the result of any given turn is only determined by the random number generated in the previous turn. So one only has to load back one more turn in order to get a new random seed.

One can use it on everything that requires a random number. Free Pottery and free Calendar from ruins! It works just like the New Random Seed setting except that you can't change outcomes within a turn. Too bad I only discovered the trick on Turn 104. The actual process for me is very tedious due to my slow computer. So far, I only loaded the game once - at Turn 102-104 to get me some tech to enter Renaissance.

Spoiler :

046. This is Ramey's tech route in the Medieval Era. The best part comes from RA#5, where Ramey got Acoustics, entered Renaissance Era, and on the next turn got Free Religions for 2 policies in Freedom (unlocked by Renaissance). That was close. (Other than Acoustics, I would settle with Banking, too.)

As the strings of RAs kick in, Ramey only researched the 3 cheapest tech in order to receive 8 expensive free techs. While you think this is incredibly cheap, please keep in mind the AIs are also signing RAs with each other non-stop. If Ramey doesn't sign it, he will get so hopelessly behind. Ramey still isn't the tech leader, but close. He was actually the 3rd, then the 2nd. (The demographic reads 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8 and 2. )

Alexander is the tech leader. He is doing extremely well into Renaissance, so well that I am considering coming back to an earlier point to raise an army to bring him down before he grows out of control.

Spoiler :

047. This is an update of the Pangaea world in Late Medieval - Early Renaissance Era. Let's again start with Ramey.

Ramey successfully bribed Japan to war Iroquois. As Iroquois was under pressure from both Japan and Greece, Hiawatha proposed an unconditional peace treaty with Ramey. While I would love to get a favorable treaty, I agreed just in case Iroquois rebuild an army in a short time (and again demands lots of gold for peace).

Ramey's pressure from Genghis Khan was lessened when the Great Khan realized that Ramey is too weak to make a difference. Khan launched a major invasion to Japan (which happened to be witnessed by Ramey's scout), declared war to Siam, and even Aztec, whom he had no business with whatsoever.

Ramey, Oda, and Ramky built up a triangle alliance, the only friends of this violent masculine world. The alliance is a very good news for Ramey, since he can worry even less about Mongolia as there are two friends to slow down Genghis Khan. As a result, Ramey continued his peaceful approach and remained almost defenseless. His scouts and starting Spearman was travelling the world to visit Natural Wonders and distant City States.

Interestingly, Hiawatha also approached Ramey to show the willingness to Declare Friendship. There was even no "we have gone to war in the past" modifier, just a pure desire of Friendship. Such a nice leader. But too bad, Ramey had to turn down Hiawatha, for Hiawatha is Oda's enemy (and that actually is Ramey's fault. ). Ramey needs Oda's 100% support to fight against Mongolia.

Alexander became the front-runner of the game. He soon became the tech leader and had conquered quite a few cities from his neighbors. It will be everybody's top priority to slow Alex down.

Everybody was fighting their neighbors except Ramey. (Rome and Aztec share no common borders, I later learned.)

Spoiler :

048. Here Ramky made Oda to attack Hiawatha in another very cheap deal. It is probably this war that made Hiawatha want to make peace with Ramey.

My other intention of the bribe is to give Japan the bad warmonger reputation sooner, so he can more quickly be denounced by other leaders. Then Japan will see more war and less RA. Keeping neighbors not too powerful and busy is the key for long-lasting peace.

Spoiler :

049. Got Hagia Sophia without any trouble. In my Ramky OCC Science game, I saw 10 GP from the capital at the end. So I can expect at least 10 in a Culture game.

Spoiler :

050. Ramey's scouts revealed a large Mongolia army... that's scary. On this map, Mongolia has no immediate neighbor except Ramey. That really sucks.

Since I didn't realize I can still pick my RA tech, I still didn't have Civil Service upon the completion of Hagia Sophia (4 more turns).

I decided to give Ramey Angkor Wat and forget about Chichen Itza all together. Angkor Wat is an awesome wonder for border expansion (400% rate). I got it in my two previous OCC games and never regretted. However, since I am playing a Cultural game, eventually I will get Landed Elite from Tradition (300% border expansion). So Angkor Wat is redundant.

Since I have decided to build it, I will delay Landed Elite to absolutely the last minute, so I can get other useful policies a little earlier. Angkor Wat also gives +1 G-Eng point. That's not a bad thing, either.

Spoiler :

051. Policy time again. That's probably the only excitement from a culture game - "I got another policy! What do I pick?" As I have decided to rush for Freedom, I will go down the Piety tree to first get Reformation. Another 10 turns of Golden Age!

Note: If I restart from Turn 84, I would get Civil Service and used the first Golden Age to finish Chichen Itza, and spend 1 point in Landed Elite to delay Reformation.

Spoiler :

052. As I was deeply worried about the Mongolia horde, I made quite an expensive bribe to make Mongolia attack Japan (Oda did not agree to war Mongolia anymore.) Just to keep them busy at each other.

Spoiler :

053. Got the first GP (G-Eng) on Turn 95. Ramey already had Chivalry at the time, so the G-Eng can be used to rush Himeji castle immediately.

Strangely, while in my previous games, I could always instant rush Himeji Castle with a G-Eng, now I was one turn short. The G-Eng accelerated the Himeji Castle from 16-turn to 2-turn (under Golden Age). This was quite a disappointing rush... (I didn't realize the reason for the power failure at this point.)

Spoiler :

054. As Hiawatha asked for peace, Ramey immediately started signing RA with him. 7 RAs running non-stop - that was insane! A bigger map and more Civ definitely make the Civ progress faster. Is that a good thing for Ramey? Maybe not - he needs to block Spaceships before his Utopia project finishes. But if Ramey does not sign RA, others will anyway.

Spoiler :

055. Here is Himeji Castle. This wonder surprisingly has a lot of Culture (half a Stonehenge!) and is really good for a defensive play (such as in a Culture game). This wonder also boosts the base generation rate of G-Eng. So Ramey will have a 2nd G-Eng ready when Sistine Chapel (Acoustics, +33% Culture) becomes available.

Spoiler :

056. Ramey saved some gold to get a Workshop (500 gold) running in Thebes. This is a wonderful building, not only because it enables Ironwork later, but it provides +2 hammer and +3 G-Eng points!

Due to the lack of Maritime CS allies and the extra Eng specialist, Thebe's population grew really slowly. (I had so many tiles pre-improved.) I was seriously thinking about getting a Maritime CS ally, but all of them have been bought and/or are hostile. So I sent Ramey's scouts and spearman to far, far away, trying to see if there are other Maritime CSs worth befriending with.

Spoiler :

057. Here Genghis Khan launched a major invasion on Oda! Ramey's scout saw a giant wave of units cross the middle of the continent. But they eventually failed to take any Japanese city. That's just how good AI is.

Spoiler :

058. Angkor Wat completed. There was a healthy G-Eng points accumulating in Thebes.

Spoiler :

059. And Ramey entered Renaissance on the same turn thanks for the Acoustics RA slingshot. Now Ramey can definitely get Sistine Chapel when the next G-Eng comes out.

From the score board, you can see that Monty was actually the leader in Medieval. But very soon, Monty will lose cities to Alexander, for the tech leader had fielded soldiers of the next generation.

Spoiler :

060. In a normal game, I would definitely get Market, National Treasury and University. But I am leaving all of these great buildings behind - I am getting a useless National Epic for even faster GP generation! So I can get more Great People to build more important wonders. I should get the next G-Eng in 13 turns or less for Sistine Chapel.

Spoiler :

061. Here is the policy slingshot - Free Religion gives 2 free policies to unlock the Freedom tree and Constitution (+100% culture in Thebes). Start now, the culture output from the capital outweighs Cultural CS's contribution!

Spoiler :

062. This is a screenshot from a few turns later. Thebes generates 21 culture points. After Constitution it becomes +42. A base of 21 is really weak, though. There are a few heavy-weight buildings to come: Opera House, Museum, and G-Artist converted Landmarks. After Sistine chapel, I should use the next G-Eng to rush Louvre for 2 Landmarks (+10 base).

(To be continued)

 

[Deussu]

Those artist specialists are way too weak, that's true. +1 is so bad compared to the merchant's +3 , engineer's +2 or +3 . Increasing it to +3 would make them alright.

 

[Magnive]

*Lurker comment* You can get whatever tech you desire with RA if you know how to do it, since the formular for what tech you get can be manipulated.
I can't remember the exact formular, but every 1% research in a tech reduces the chance of getting it by 4%, as long as you've got a tech which have 0% research in another tech
Quite useful when I use RA's

 

[maltz]

Those artist specialists are way too weak, that's true. +1 is so bad compared to the merchant's +3 , engineer's +2 or +3 . Increasing it to +3 would make them alright.

Yeah. But I think Landmarks are pretty good (+5 each). So specialists can be used to generate Landmarks. But I think it is better to just build/rush Louvre to give 2 landmarks.

*Lurker comment* You can get whatever tech you desire with RA if you know how to do it, since the formular for what tech you get can be manipulated.
I can't remember the exact formular, but every 1% research in a tech reduces the chance of getting it by 4%, as long as you've got a tech which have 0% research in another tech
Quite useful when I use RA's

Thanks for the number. That's one way to change the RA tech even if you load the turn just before.

 

[Magnive]

Or, you could just sink enough turns into unwanted techs and avoid having to reload

 

[maltz]

Or, you could just sink enough turns into unwanted techs and avoid having to reload

I tested that (sinking 1 more turn into another unwanted tech) and it worked well. Thanks.