Top City-State Choices

[TahamiTsunami]

It's been fun going over polls for Returning Civs, Brand New Civs, etc. While I'm not overly familiar with the popular choices enough to confidently do a poll, I figured I'd start by finding out which city-states would be the most desired. I'd definitely recommend checking out the ultimate city-state wishlist by @Guandao . Here are my top choices:

Lhasa: Tibet would definitely be a top tier choice for a civ if it weren't for the Chinese sensitivity of the subject so I'll settle for at least their capital being a city-state. It would certainly have a religious focus.

Acoma Pueblo / Other Puebloan Site: I'm a fan of the Cahokia city-state for both it's great bonus and for representing what would've been a mandatory civ if we knew more. Until we know for sure if one of the Puebloan groups can be a civ, I'd want an industrial Puebloan city-state. The sky city would be a good choice.

Tuktoyaktuk: I highly doubt we'll get an Inuit civ but I would like some form of Inuit representation. Since they didn't have cities, a modern city like Nuuk or Iqaluit would be a reasonable choice. However, I'd choose Tuktoyaktuk because, while it is also a modern city, it was a historically used site by the natives to transport supplies as well as hunt caribou and beluga whales. For that reason I'd see it as trade focused and as a northern counterpart to Zanzibar.

Soxtonoxmu: As much as I like them, I don't think a native Californian civ is very likely so I'd for a Chumash city to be a city-state. Soxtonoxmu is the city that Rafael Solares lived in and he's the guy who sold Chumash artifacts to museums in order to preserve Chumash culture. Soxtonoxmu could be a cultural or trade city-state.

Marajo: Another option that could've been an easy shoo-in if we knew more about them. As the wishlist says, it could be a cultural city-state that gains extra culture from relics and artifacts.

Timna: The capital of the Qataban kingdom of pre-Islamic Arabia. It would most likely be a trade city-state that provides Myrrh and Frankincense luxury resources.



So those are my choices, I'd like to hear what yours are!

 

[Phrozen]

Tiwanaku - Not sure why it keeps getting included in the Inca city list as the site was long abandoned once the Spanish found it. Could have a Gate of the Sun improvement.

Moche - Would be a shoe in for a recurring civ if we knew more than just archaeological evidence for their existence.Could have ceramics luxury or even be able to irrigate the desert.

Monterrey - Switch Mexico City to cultural and then bring in Monterrey as the industrial Mexican city state.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Here are mine:

Nassau: Even though it was the capital of a "Pirate Republic" I would make it a trade city state. In fact I think it would be a good replacement for Lisbon with the suzerain bonus. Of course you can also add in you get more gold from pillaging.

Hlg̱aagilda: Since the Haida were close to make it in as a full Civ, I think that a city-state to represent them would be nice. Make it a militaristic city state that lets you build a crest pole improvement that provides some culture and strength when defending within 3 tiles. Plus I would like more of the NA city architecture.

Bacatá: I don't believe Muisca will make it in, but their capital would make a good trade city-state. Lake tiles can grant extra gold and amenities if you are the suzerain.

Helsinki: Finland needs a rep and I would make it a science city state since I have a lot of trade ones already. Alternatively Turku could be used as that was the original university in Finland before it moved to Helsinki.

Lhasa: For the reasons mentioned above and yes should be religious. Not sure how historically accurate this is but I think it would be interesting for a suzerain bonus that allows religious units to teleport through mountains like a mountain tunnel, while moving.

Kiev: Can easily replace Antioch and keep the bonuses if the Byzantines come in.

Pretoria: Administrative Captial of South Africa. I needed an industrial city state and since it's called "Jacaranda City" for its many jacaranda trees I think giving it a bonus towards city parks would be nice.

Monte Albán: Zapotec Capital and great replacement for Palenque.

Honorable Mentions:

Vienna: I'd like to see Austria somewhat represented. It would make a great cultural city state if they don't return as a full Civ.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I think Pagan and/or Hanoi are absolutely necessary. I actually think it would behoove the devs to include both of these civs ultimately, but since it seems quite likely we will only get one, the other must be a city-state. Pagan would be religious, Hanoi would be militaristic.

Also, Bangkok to give our trusty staple Siam some love. Probably an industrial civ since its become kind of the economic hub of ASEAN.

Singapore. Economic.

Yakutsk, because Sakha is the largest subnational self-governing body in the world and we really could stand to fill out north Asia a bit better. It doesn't make sense aesthetically as a civ, but could very comfortably be a CS. (I would say Astana can come too, but Scythia is kind of vicariously representing Kazakhstan).

Tu'i Tonga and/or Honolulu, because these mini island empires make a lot more sense as CS than Rapa Nui which is really an archetypal example of a failed civilization. Cultural.

It's been fun going over polls for Returning Civs, Brand New Civs, etc. While I'm not overly familiar with the popular choices enough to confidently do a poll, I figured I'd start by finding out which city-states would be the most desired. I'd definitely recommend checking out the ultimate city-state wishlist by @Guandao . Here are my top choices:

Lhasa: Tibet would definitely be a top tier choice for a civ if it weren't for the Chinese sensitivity of the subject so I'll settle for at least their capital being a city-state. It would certainly have a religious focus.

Acoma Pueblo / Other Puebloan Site: I'm a fan of the Cahokia city-state for both it's great bonus and for representing what would've been a mandatory civ if we knew more. Until we know for sure if one of the Puebloan groups can be a civ, I'd want an industrial Puebloan city-state. The sky city would be a good choice.

Tuktoyaktuk: I highly doubt we'll get an Inuit civ but I would like some form of Inuit representation. Since they didn't have cities, a modern city like Nuuk or Iqaluit would be a reasonable choice. However, I'd choose Tuktoyaktuk because, while it is also a modern city, it was a historically used site by the natives to transport supplies as well as hunt caribou and beluga whales. For that reason I'd see it as trade focused and as a northern counterpart to Zanzibar.

Soxtonoxmu: As much as I like them, I don't think a native Californian civ is very likely so I'd for a Chumash city to be a city-state. Soxtonoxmu is the city that Rafael Solares lived in and he's the guy who sold Chumash artifacts to museums in order to preserve Chumash culture. Soxtonoxmu could be a cultural or trade city-state.

Marajo: Another option that could've been an easy shoo-in if we knew more about them. As the wishlist says, it could be a cultural city-state that gains extra culture from relics and artifacts.

Timna: The capital of the Qataban kingdom of pre-Islamic Arabia. It would most likely be a trade city-state that provides Myrrh and Frankincense luxury resources.



So those are my choices, I'd like to hear what yours are!

I think all of these would be excellent choices. Except Soxtonoxmu, which seems ... less important.

Here are mine:

Nassau: Even though it was the capital of a "Pirate Republic" I would make it a trade city state. In fact I think it would be a good replacement for Lisbon with the suzerain bonus. Of course you can also add in you get more gold from pillaging.

Hlg̱aagilda: Since the Haida were close to make it in as a full Civ, I think that a city-state to represent them would be nice. Make it a militaristic city state that lets you build a crest pole improvement that provides some culture and strength when defending within 3 tiles. Plus I would like more of the NA city architecture.

Bacatá: I don't believe Muisca will make it in, but their capital would make a good trade city-state. Lake tiles can grant extra gold and amenities if you are the suzerain.

Helsinki: Finland needs a rep and I would make it a science city state since I have a lot of trade ones already. Alternatively Turku could be used as that was the original university in Finland before it moved to Helsinki.

Lhasa: For the reasons mentioned above and yes should be religious. Not sure how historically accurate this is but I think it would be interesting for a suzerain bonus that allows religious units to teleport through mountains like a mountain tunnel, while moving.

Kiev: Can easily replace Antioch and keep the bonuses if the Byzantines come in.

Pretoria: Administrative Captial of South Africa. I needed an industrial city state and since it's called "Jacaranda City" for its many jacaranda trees I think giving it a bonus towards city parks would be nice.

Monte Albán: Zapotec Capital and great replacement for Palenque.

Honorable Mentions:

Vienna: I'd like to see Austria somewhat represented. It would make a great cultural city state if they don't return as a full Civ.

I also like most of these as CS, Vienna included. Some distinctions, however:

* I think Bacata will just be the capital of a Colombian civ, if we happen to get Colombia. But if we don't get Colombia, I think it's a must-have for a CS.
* I think Kiev will end up being an alternative capital for Russia under Olga. I know this is a slightly contentious idea but lumping Kievan Rus' into Russia is still historically defensible, and we really need to make the lavra make sense.
* I'm not sure how many North American CS would be left, but even if we did presume a PNW the Haida are competing with the Tlingit and the Salish. So I can't really say whether this is the best option among equivalents.
* Don't really think the Zapotec are necessary but if they couldn't find anything else to do with Palenque's bonuses it's probably the best Mesoamerican option.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Teotihuacan needs to be a city-state, and the Pyramid of the Sun needs to be a wonder.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think Bacata will just be the capital of a Colombian civ, if we happen to get Colombia. But if we don't get Colombia, I think it's a must-have for a CS.

Bogota is the current capital of Colombia, which is different than the Muisca capital, which is what I was referring to. It is perfectly fine to have a Colombian civ and the CS appearing in the same game just like Mexico City and the Aztecs.

 

[The Kingmaker]

If XP3 happens, we will probably need replacements for Babylon, Lisbon, and Palenque, maybe even Bologna.

Some more ideas:

I second Singapore... it only makes sense.

Tortuga... pirates!
Palmyra... since we're not getting them as a civ any time soon.
Copenhagen... if no Denmark
Damascus... if no Syria
Bactra/Balkh... for central Asia
Târgoviște... for Dracula/Wallachia fans
Havana... not getting Cuba
if not Kiev... then maybe the Zaporozhian Sich? Too ambitious?

 

[Xandinho]

I'd like to see Vatican City, Prague, Singapore, Vienna, Cape Town, Kiev, Lhasa, Tiwanaku, Bangkok, Dubai, Sófia and something new from North America.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

First, everybody go look at Gedemo's "City State Mods" - I think he's added over 30 City States by now, including some that are wildly obscure but intriguing.

Second, for individual cities that have something distinctive about them, I have a few candidates:

Belfast (obviously, if no separate Irish Civ) - because the Belfast shipyards built a large part of the Royal Navy in the Industrial and Modern Eras: could give a big boost to Naval Unit construction.
Darmstadt - the German city that was the capital of one of the principle "Hessian" states that provided mercenaries throughout most of the 18th century. We Need a Mercenary Mechanic in the game, and this could be one of the ways to get it: a City State that can 'hire out' a Unique Unit: Hessian Grenadier - to other Civs.
Port Royale - the Real "Pirate Capital": Privateers Without Borders
Syracuse (Sicily) - home of the world's first Military Research Laboratory, Dionysus's Ortygian Workshop, where the Quinquereme, crossbow and catapult were invented. This would be a Real Science City State, since every one of those inventions rapidly spread all over the Classical Mediterranean world.
Lübeck - the major city of the Hanseatic League: a Merchant/Gold/Trade City that should boost Trade Routes, Trade Goods, - maybe even add a special 'Bonus" Resource like Salted Cod to the game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

@The Kingmaker and @Boris Gudenuf : Damascus, Havana, Syracuse and Lübeck are already cities for Arabia, Spain, Greece and Germany respectfully.
There is always the possibility that they could take a city and make it a city-state as it already happened with Granada. At the same time I don't know if they would take another one from Spain so Havana might stay as a Spanish city.

 

[Patine]

Timna: The capital of the Qataban kingdom of pre-Islamic Arabia. It would most likely be a trade city-state that provides Myrrh and Frankincense luxury resources.

This could be one of those social marketing issues. Pre-Islamic cities and cultures actually on the Arabian Peninsula (except, seemingly, Yemeni ones) that are NOT portrayed in these kinds of media as highly "sinful, decadent, impious, hubrisful, and on brink of suffering Divine Wrath for displeasing Allah can be quite contentious to certain aspect of the Islamic Community, just as physically portraying Mohammed, his immediate family, his Companions, and the four Rashidun Caliphs can be.

those are my choices, I'd like to hear what yours are

Tortuga... pirates!

Tortuga, as portrayed in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchise, the novel (and several movie versions) of "Treasure Island," etc. didn't ever exist as such. That identity of a "filthy-pirate-ridden freeport" was based on 18th Century Nassau, which @TahamiTsunami already listed. The REAL Tortuga, on the island of Hispaniola, was much less exciting and more sedate, peaceful, and law-abiding.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

@The Kingmaker and @Boris Gudenuf : Damascus, Havana, Syracuse and Lübeck are already cities for Arabia, Spain, Greece and Germany respectfully.
There is always the possibility that they could take a city and make it a city-state as it already happened with Granada. At the same time I don't know if they would take another one from Spain so Havana might stay as a Spanish city.

Since cities in major Civilizations in the game are either the Capital or they are ciphers, they can be swapped out at will - and have been. Making them City States at least allows us to distinguish them in some way that actually has an effect in the game.
Lubeck, by the way, is also one of Gedemo's Modded City States, so it already has a (sort of) Double Life.

The REAL Tortuga, on the island of Hispaniola, was much less exciting and more sedate, peaceful, and law-abiding.

Wouldn't that alone make it unique enough in the 18th century to be an potential City State?

Shucks, that would make it unique in either the Caribbean or Central America Today!

 

[The Kingmaker]

Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon for SW Native Americans.

Tiwanaku is a good one for South America.

 

[Patine]

Wouldn't that alone make it unique enough in the 18th century to be an potential City State?

Shucks, that would make it unique in either the Caribbean or Central America Today!

It certainly would - if I wasn't speaking relatively.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Teotihuacan needs to be a city-state, and the Pyramid of the Sun needs to be a wonder.

I do the same appeal, Teotihuacan can't be a Civilization because it was just a city, but the importance of this city to American history is ruge. The history of Northe America is divided in 5 periods: Pre - Classic, Classic, Pos - Classic, Colonization and Republican era. And the Classic period is just the period who exist Teotihuacan and Pre Classic is before they and Pos Classic is after they.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Since cities in major Civilizations in the game are either the Capital or they are ciphers, they can be swapped out at will - and have been. Making them City States at least allows us to distinguish them in some way that actually has an effect in the game.
Lubeck, by the way, is also one of Gedemo's Modded City States, so it already has a (sort of) Double Life.

True, that is why I mentioned Granada being taken away from Spain.
Though out of all the ones mentioned, Lubeck does seem the one that probably would need to stay German, unlike say Havana or Syracuse, meaning it's at least in modern day German territory and was ruled over by Barbarossa himself. That's just my opinion.

 

[Patine]

I do the same appeal, Teotihuacan can't be a Civilization because it was just a city, but the importance of this city to American history is ruge. The history of Northe America is divided in 5 periods: Pre - Classic, Classic, Pos - Classic, Colonization and Republican era. And the Classic period is just the period who exist Teotihuacan and Pre Classic is before they and Pos Classic is after they.

I think your historical eras are applied a little too broadly by saying "of NORTH AMERICAN history." The Indigenous People of Canada had no traceable Pre-Classic, Classic, or Post-Classic eras (they have different eras only known by archaeology and paleoanthropology), and we're not a Republic up here, so a Republican era doesn't apply either. And we have between about a third and half of the land area of the geographical continent of North America (which includes Canada, the United States (except Hawaii), Greenland, St. Pierre and Miquelon, Bermuda, Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean Islands, by geographical convention).

 

[Henri Christophe]

I think your historical eras are applied a little too broadly by saying "of NORTH AMERICAN history." The Indigenous People of Canada had no traceable Pre-Classic, Classic, or Post-Classic eras (they have different eras only known by archaeology and paleoanthropology), and we're not a Republic up here, so a Republican era doesn't apply either. And we have between about a third and half of the land area of the geographical continent of North America (which includes Canada, the United States (except Hawaii), Greenland, St. Pierre and Miquelon, Bermuda, Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean Islands, by geographical convention).

I listening a thousand times the concept of Middle Ages being aplied to countrys who isn't europeans.
Middle Ages is the time periodo between the fall of Rome (in Rome) and the fall of Rome (in Istanbul). So why it's acceptable saying things as "The Great Zimbabwe was build during the Middle-Ages. or, The Zhang He was a great navigator of the middle ages?"

Now it's funny to see if I try do the same concept to American cronology, how really appear someone angry with that.
And the native-americans was not isolated, maybe Teotihuacan don't influeced that much the Inutis, but it's possible to trace Teotihucan influence until in Cahokia. Unfortunately we don't know that much about Canadian Indians to say how much was Teotihuacan influence there, but, as we can't asume had influence we also can't asume hadn't.

Of course Canada isn't a republic, they still a colony. Canada still in the colonization era

 

[Patine]

I listening a thousand times the concept of Middle Ages being aplied to countrys who isn't europeans.
Middle Ages is the time periodo between the fall of Rome (in Rome) and the fall of Rome (in Istanbul). So why it's acceptable saying things as "The Great Zimbabwe was build during the Middle-Ages. or, The Zhang He was a great navigator of the middle ages?"

Now it's funny to see if I try do the same concept to American cronology, how really appear someone angry with that.
And the native-americans was not isolated, maybe Teotihuacan don't influeced that much the Inutis, but it's possible to trace Teotihucan influence until in Cahokia. Unfortunately we don't know that much about Canadian Indians to say how much was Teotihuacan influence there, but, as we can't asume had influence we also can't asume hadn't.

Of course Canada isn't a republic, they still a colony. Canada still in the colonization era

Well, if you ever catch me making such a reference that way to anyone outside the old Roman Empire's sphere of Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa, please feel free to chasten me. My correction stands. Oh, and if "colony" and 'republic" are the only two possible forms of government in the Western Hemisphere in the Imperial Age onward by your recknoning, time to study modern government theory and forms of government from a more credible source that covers it's greater complexity and variety. Start, in fact, with Commonwealth Realm, as that'll be relevant starting point.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

There's definitely some great choices in here that I didn't think about. For what its worth, I tried to avoid using city-states that could be cities in a full civ but since we'll probably only get 1 expansion pack I probably should realize that some desired full civs might only make it in as city-states. As much as I'd like the Tlingit, Haida, Burma, Vietnam, etc. to all be in, I'll make my expectations a bit more realistic. It is a shame but it's better than nothing.

I think all of these would be excellent choices. Except Soxtonoxmu, which seems ... less important.

I do agree that of all those choices, Soxtonoxmu is less important than the others. I just know that a native Californian civ is fairly unlikely so a city-state would be nice to have. The Chumash do have other options though: Syxtun could be industrial and the very well known Malibu could be trade focused.

This could be one of those social marketing issues. Pre-Islamic cities and cultures actually on the Arabian Peninsula (except, seemingly, Yemeni ones) that are NOT portrayed in these kinds of media as highly "sinful, decadent, impious, hubrisful, and on brink of suffering Divine Wrath for displeasing Allah can be quite contentious to certain aspect of the Islamic Community, just as physically portraying Mohammed, his immediate family, his Companions, and the four Rashidun Caliphs can be.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. I didn't even know that the four Rashidun caliphs couldn't be shown either. If that's the case then that dampens the chances for more focus on the Arabian peninsula. Regardless, thank you for telling me.

I like a lot of the suggestions that I'm seeing here. I might be tempted to do an actual poll in the future!