Top Ten Wonders?

CivGuru

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Pleasant Hill, CA, USA
Here's my top 10. What's yours?
1) Pyramids
2) Leonardo's Workshop
3) Magellan's Expedition
4) United Nations
5) Statue of Liberty
6) Hoover Dam
7) Womans Sufferage
8) Seti Program
9) Michelangelos Chapel
10) Eiffel Tower (Only against AI)
 
It depends on my diffuculty level and playing strategy so for purposes of this discussion I will just assume my typical playing style.

1. Hoover Dam
2. Leo's
3. Mike's Chapel
4. Great Wall
5. UN
6. SETI
7. Magellan's
8. Oracle
9. Hanging Gardens
10. Pyramids

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[This message has been edited by BlueMonday (edited April 22, 2001).]
 
I think a Wonder's value is totally dependent on the level of gameplay and also the unique situation of each game. Therefore I cannot list them in order of importance, however, I CAN list the ones I most desire to obtain. (No particular order except the first - which I think is the best of them all).

1. Statue of Liberty
2. Adam Smith's
3. SETI
4. Hoover Dam
5. Great Library
6. Colossus
7. Mike's Chapel
8. Shakespeare's Theatre
9. Leonardo's Workshop
10. Apollo Program

and a few I generally never build:

Sun Tzu's
Oracle
Manhattan Project
Great Wall
Pyramids
 
1) mikes chapel
2) Hoover (If I get that far)
3) workshop
4) Adam Smith
5) Statue

Others that are not necessarily great on their own, but very nice in combination

SSC: Colossus, Cope's observatory, Newton's college

Lighthouse & Magellan: ability to build Super Ironclads for pre-gunpowder dominance.

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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.
 
Yes, TimTheEnchanter, I should think a veteran, 7 move (or 7 attack) ironclad would be an quite an unpleasant surprise for the phalanxes sleepily guarding the coastal city!
 
It's real nice: 7 moves, Vet gives attack/defense of 6, 2 hit points and best of all...shore bombardments ignore city walls. Nothing at sea can touch it, and it is unstoppable against coastal cities before muskets, and available without gunpowder. - You just follow it up with the occupying troops who walk into the empty city.

It's almost as good as a diplomat!

The only drawback is not all cities are on the coast
frown.gif


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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.
 
1. Leonardos Workshop
2. Mike's Chapel
3. Hoover Dam
4. Pyramids
5. Adam Smiths
6. San Tzu's
7. Great Library
8. Magellans
9. Statue of Liberty
10. Hanging Gardens

These are roughly my top 10, on Deity with raging hordes. I'm usually fairly war like to.
 
I fail to see why Adam Smiths is such a good wonder, but everybody seem to have it in their top 10 list...
confused.gif


Isn't the income of 8 tradecaravans way higher?
 
Not when you are maxed out on your caravans (3), which every civ should be.

...and think 100 cities, five 1 gold upkeep improvements per city - 500 gold per turn - thats a lot!

plus, neither BlueMonday, nor CivGuru had it on their lists...
 
Originally posted by Knigget:
I fail to see why Adam Smiths is such a good wonder, but everybody seem to have it in their top 10 list... <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/confused.gif" border=0>

Isn't the income of 8 tradecaravans way higher?

I know that many people use this same argument against the colossus as well - that if the shields used to make the wonder were used for trade routes instead it would net you better results.

My only response to that is "why not have both?"

With Adam Smith's, I will be tying up one city for a while, and that would potentailly delay the building of three caravans. Most times, before I get to economics, I already have 2-3 trade routes from that city, so I may not be losing very much in that regard. When Adam Smith's is completed, I find that I can set taxes lower or start speed building things like libraries, marketplaces, and temples if need be - all of which are now essentially free. I can also speed build some caravans as well - making up for any time lost.

Perhaps the Colossus is a different story since it is unlikely that you have any trade routes from the city that is producing it before the construction begins. However, I still like to go for it as a cog to my eventual science city. Also, I WILL produce caravans in this city (usually right after its completion) and the caravans will now be more valuable. It also allows you to support other caravans from this city to make them more valuable as well.

Other wonders to make out my top 10:
Leo's
Mike's
Pyramids
Hang. Gardens
Hoover
G. Wall
Magellan
SETI


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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock
 
Damn,

Don't know why it posted twice.

Why can't we delete our own posts?

Sorry

[This message has been edited by Kev (edited April 25, 2001).]
 
Yeah but why not get both ! Here is my top 10:

1- Leo's (as soon as gunpowder is availaible you get unbeatable offensive units available straight away. It saves a lot of time and shields)
2- Pyramids
3- Mike's
4- Shakespeare Theater ! (surprised only Magnus has put it in his list, it is so cool to have it in a big producing city where all your "expeditionnary" corpses will be located without any unhapinness. Very useful in Democracy, don't you find ?)
5- Hoover Dam
6- Statue of Liberty (soooo sweet to switch from Democracy to Fundy to break a treaty, and then switch back to civilized-democracy in the same turn ! No lousy Senate interferences, erk erk erk...)
7- SETI (7th cos' it arrives too late in the game, accdording to me)
8- Magellan's expedition
9- Women Suffrage (very useful under Demo once again
10- UN (to infer "peacekeeping" support by the Senate)

The ones I rarely build :
- Lighthouse (so short, you can almost discover navigation by the time you get it)
- Darwin's (I am usually ahead enough in science to handle it in one of my opponent's)
- Eiffel Tower (annoying that your ennemies don't want to play with you !)
- Manhattan project (nukes : the later, the better)
 
As to tying up production with Colossus/Adam Smiths instead of producing trade routes. A city doesn't have to build caravans to gain trade routes. caravans can be built in other cities and sent to the wonder-building city and either establish a route if beneficial (both cities benefit, after all), or re-support from that city and send it on its way. Trade routes AND economic wonders.
My top wonders depends to a certain extent on circumstances, and I'm finding that it is slowly evolving, too.
First wonder: Colossus (comes early, lasts a long time, foundation of SSC)
Happiness wonders (Hanging Gardens if possible, Mike's)
Science wonders in SSC (Cop's, Isaac Newtons, SETI if I get that far)
I'm learning the benefits of the Great Wall (don't have to build city walls).
Couple Great Wall with Leo's and Sun TZus for a crushingly powerful military posture (Leos' takes away vet status of upgraded units, but Sun Tzu's gives it back after any battle)
Post Industrial: Hoover and Women's sufferage (and SETI, of course)
 
Additionally, why I like Statue of Liberty above all - you can get any government without having the tech, so for example, you can get fundamentalism and nobody can steal it from you, if you haven't researched it yet and you are "#1 in science!". I like the fact that I can go to communism with it before industrialization.
 
The way one ranks the Wonders of the World reflects on the type of game you play. These rankings more or less reflect the use that I have made of these of these wonders in my last two single-player games at Deity level, spaceship plus future tech mode.

1. Colussus: Foundation of the SSC; at the center of nexus of trade routes, improves science, wealth and happiness in other cities; while it eventually expires, you can get hell of a lot of mileage out of this wonder; in my opinion, by far the best of the ancient wonders.

2. Michaelangelo's Chapel: Essential for Deity level where the name of the game is controlling discontent.

3. King Richard's Crusade: Thanks to this wonder, I've built all of the subsequent Wonders in seven of the seven games. 'Nuf said.

4. Hoover Dam: increases industrial production while cutting industrial pollution; by far and away the most useful of the Modern Wonders.

5. United Nations: essential for the late game where you need to monitor the scientific progress of competing civs -- especially when they decide to pursue the Nuclear option; essential to prevent this being built by AI's, who can then exchange knowledge with all other civs; also helpful when waging war as a Democracy, especially if you know how to use your emissaries wisely.

6. Hanging Gardens: Combined with Michaelangelo's Chapel, quite effective at promoting "We Love the Consul/President's Day"; while it expires relatively early (w/ Railroad), at Deity level that one extra happy citizen in each city is often the one that triggers "We Love the Consul/President's Day," making this extremely useful for early demographic growth.

7. Cure for Cancer: by increasing happiness, has an indirect but essentially identical effect as Women's Suffrage when it comes to fighting wars as a democracy; by increasing happiness, promotes "We Love the President's Day," thus serving as replacement for the expired Hanging Gardens.

8. Shakespeare's Theatre: a sine qua non for waging war as a Democracy; requires careful thought as to its placement (ideally, an industrial port city that will be connected by rail with other major industrial cities).

9. Leonardo's Workshop: always nice to upgrade your units -- especially engineers! (The way I fight wars, this wonder seldom has had a significant military impact on my games.) However, it essential to keep this wonder out of a Computer Civ's control; I can imagine that in multiplayer games, this wonder becomes one of the most important, if not the most important wonder.

10. SETI: important for the late game where the competing civs are in alliance and essentially pursuing a common research program; and always good for the pursuit of future techs.
 
1) Pyramids
2) Leonardo's Workshop
3) Michelangelos Chapel
4) JS Bach
5) Statue of Liberty
6) United Nations
7) Womans Sufferage
8) Magellan's Expedition
9) Hoover Dam

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