TOS V3.05 PBEM "Cartwheel"

[Misfit_travel]

Without making this too complicated, just moving the air units out of Pearl onto an airfield would make 1st turn attacks on Pearl much more successful.

The search capability is limited in the game. I like the idea of a recon type unit (but I'm guessing that if v4.x territory as it involves new units).

Misfit

 

[aksully]

Without making this too complicated, just moving the air units out of Pearl onto an airfield would make 1st turn attacks on Pearl much more successful.

Yes to a degree but you still have what 9 or 10 city improvements that get factored into possible targets the computer can select to target? I think you would love to be the Jap player and making the first attack against this new feature. Making it happen can be complex or easy with the map. As it is now, the Jap player is severely handicapped by the current map of Oaha. I guess I see TOS as a way fix the limitations of the good scenario that Conquests gave us. I think Eric is 90% on the way to making this one the best, most historical, and playable scenarios. Fixing the initial placement of units at Oahu with a map revision gets it to 95%. Then continue to tweak it as he is.

The search capability is limited in the game. I like the idea of a recon type unit (but I'm guessing that if v4.x territory as it involves new units).

Perhaps. But, the units may already be out there and would just have to be added to the what..Civiliopedia? If they're not we could request Wyrmshadow or one of the others to create it for later? In the meantime I think all that would needed to be done is take the Allied and Jap Torpedo plane, copy it, rename it Recon and reduce its attack value to 0/1. We would say that the fourth carrier spot be retricted to a recon unit only. The same unit could be used on land as well until a PBY/Seaplane icon could be created.

Like I said just suggestions I'm throwing out for everyone to chew on....spit out....or swallow!

You guys can tell me to shut up any time!

Sully

 

[Misfit_travel]

Sully:

I hadn't thought about the city improvements all that much, but you're right about how they wind up being targets. Keep in mind though that in TOS the Japs more often than not wind up sticking around for another few turns. Stripping down a Pearl Harbour as you suggest can have even more devastation than actually occured just as easily. There is also no way in the game to represent the raising of ships after they had been sunk (given how shallow Pearl Harbour actually is). With a stripped down Pearl "city" the Jap could come back quickly and hammer it again and again till nothing is left.

Its going to wind up being a compromise no matter what happens.

How big is Oahu anyway. What you are suggesting would require city placement along the (attached jpg) lines because the editor will not allow you to place cities next to each other. You also probably wouldn't want make Oahu unrealistically larger than it is.

However, this type of layout would let the US player "hide" surviving Pearl Ships in multiple places (or at sea) perhaps mitigating the repeat attack situation the Japanese player might want to execute.

Misfit

 

[El_Tigre]

China:

-Nanking conquered, 1 LT lost
-bombarded some Japanese units near the border

NL:
-sank a DD near Palembang
-lost a sub to a DD south of Saigon
-the Japanese Marine next to Palembang lost 1hp

VP: 7961 (Allies) to 7547 (Japan)

 

[El_Tigre]

How big is Oahu anyway. What you are suggesting would require city placement along the (attached jpg) lines because the editor will not allow you to place cities next to each other. You also probably wouldn't want make Oahu unrealistically larger than it is.

However, this type of layout would let the US player "hide" surviving Pearl Ships in multiple places (or at sea) perhaps mitigating the repeat attack situation the Japanese player might want to execute.

Misfit

Looks good! Two comments: I would move PH 1 tile to the southeast, and
reduce the number of airbases to 1. Remember, planes in airbases are
invulnerable, so Kido Butai cannot destroy these planes. Thus, 2 airbases on
Oahu means that the US can hit the Japanese fleet with 8 planes (game rule)
on turn 2 without risking losses.

 

[aksully]

Geez, Nicely done Misfit! You could expand the island a little more. Put a tile between the two airfields and give it irrigated sugar. Put fish all around the isle. expand the coastal sq one more line of tiles off Pearl. The stacks of ships could occupy the tiles closest to Pearl and the airfield with the B17 (Hickam).But even if you can't add the extra tile ....this is just about right on! You can put sugar on the tile west of Honolulu.
Oahu is smaller than the Big Island (Hawaii) with its big city of Hilo. But Hilo was no where near the built up area that Oahu with Honolulu and Pearl was. The Big Island does not have gems. Mostly its plains with wheat and horses and cattle. I believe at the time the war started it had only an auxillary airfield with no assigned aircraft.
Anyhow...Good job! Eric should love it!
Sully

 

[El_Tigre]

I think Oahu shouldn't be larger than 3 or 4 tiles. Everything above 2 tiles
is already disproportionate to the actual size.

 

[aksully]

Looks good! Two comments: I would move PH 1 tile to the southeast, and
reduce the number of airbases to 1. Remember, planes in airbases are
invulnerable, so Kido Butai cannot destroy these planes. Thus, 2 airbases on
Oahu means that the US can hit the Japanese fleet with 8 planes (game rule)
on turn 2 without risking losses.

Ok so you're saying you can't bomb an airfield and damage/destroy aircraft on it? Now that I think about it...you can't eliminate an airfield via bombing can you? But you should be able to destroy aircraft especially if they are not performing air superiority missions (ie on the ground)..right?

I'd have to check this to be sure but the majority of planes assigned on Oahu were p-40s, PBY's, and some B17s. The majority of naval strike AC were on the carriers or being ferried. None of which have lethal attack values.

Sully

 

[aksully]

I think Oahu shouldn't be larger than 3 or 4 tiles. Everything above 2 tiles
is already disproportionate to the actual size.

Perhaps El but the map Misfit has made is pretty good! The main resources on Oahu are pineapple, sugar, tropical fruit, and nuts. Fish all around the island with a bunch of whales (in season). His map now represents Oahu better than the original. It allows the placement of the barracks and harbor in Pearl separate from Honolulu. Very accurate and historically correct.
Sully

 

[El_Tigre]

But you should be able to destroy aircraft especially if they are not performing air superiority missions (ie on the ground)..right?

You should be able to destroy them, but you can't! And as long as there are
airplanes on an airfield it cannot be destroyed. That the reason for the 4 planes
per AB rule...

Edit: ... which does NOT apply to cities, because planes in cities can be
destroyed by bombardment.

 

[eric_A]

I am quite happy with the way the Pearl Harbour attacks are
working out. Typically 3 or 4 battlship are sunk and the fighter
wing is destroyed. Historically only 2 (Arizona and Oklahoma) were
total writeoffs. Of course some of the others took a few months to repair , but there is no way to slow down ship repair in civ that I know of.
If we started the ships parked outside the port, I think the damage
would be far to much, So I'm inclined to leave things the way they are,
so what if the library and the bank get bombed?

 

[aksully]

I am quite happy with the way the Pearl Harbour attacks are
working out. Typically 3 or 4 battlship are sunk and the fighter
wing is destroyed. Historically only 2 (Arizona and Oklahoma) were
total writeoffs. Of course some of the others took a few months to repair , but there is no way to slow down ship repair in civ that I know of.
If we started the ships parked outside the port, I think the damage
would be far to much, So I'm inclined to leave things the way they are,
so what if the library and the bank get bombed?

No problem Eric just a suggestion. I'm offline for at least the next 24 hours.Time for family and such. I'll have my turn completed late Sunday night and will send to Misfit. Enjoying a great game. I appreciate the invite guys.

Sully

 

[El_Tigre]

Of course some of the others took a few months to repair , but there is no way to slow down ship repair in civ that I know of.

To simulate that you would have to increase the amount of hitpoints
considerably and remove the harbor from the city (and make sure it can't be
rushed). This would have a lot of consequences, e.g. the TB's and DB's rate of
fire must be adjusted, so that they still have the chance to sink ships.

Like I said just suggestions I'm throwing out for everyone to chew on....spit out....or swallow!

Same here! I think this scenario is nearing perfection, and by presenting all sort
of suggestions I don't want to nit-pick, but want to present a variety of ideas
from which Eric can choose the ones he likes.

 

[aksully]

Week 8. 1942

Dongala Occupied...NL Inf KIA

Jap Destroyed sunk by sub near Ketapang
Same sub sunk by jap CA

Allied DD sunk W of Batavia

Roads bombed and cut in Japan
Jap Inf KIA against Nanking

Rabual Bombed>Lost Zero

Sully

 

[Misfit_travel]

Jap DD sunk S of Tarawa by combination of air and naval fire.

Turn to Eric_A.

Misfit

 

[Misfit_travel]

Looks good! Two comments: I would move PH 1 tile to the southeast, and
reduce the number of airbases to 1. Remember, planes in airbases are
invulnerable, so Kido Butai cannot destroy these planes. Thus, 2 airbases on
Oahu means that the US can hit the Japanese fleet with 8 planes (game rule)
on turn 2 without risking losses.

That's the best reason I've heard so far to "encourage" the Jap Fleet to retreat, like it did historically.

Something to consider Eric_A, even if you don't split Pearl and Honolulu.

Misfit

 

[eric_A]

Week 8, 1942

Bombed marine NW of Port Moresby.

 

[eric_A]

That's the best reason I've heard so far to "encourage" the Jap Fleet to retreat, like it did historically.

Something to consider Eric_A, even if you don't split Pearl and Honolulu.

Misfit

I could add a vacant airbase on the undeveloped tile at the
east end of the island.

 

[aksully]

Clarification of my last battle summary....Jap Destroyed was meant to be Jap Destroyer and Roads bombed and cut in Japan should have been in China. I don't do well with 100am summaries.


Back to the game...China is getting to be a real nightmare for the Japs. Last turn China captured Nanking and I was surprised to see a bunch of light tanks are now in garrison there so there was absolutely no way to launch a counterattack! Where the heck did they come from??? I quess China made a deal for oil from one of her allies.

My problem is that my artillery is essentially neutralized by guerilla attacks. With their large movement capability, they can hold in a square outside of art range when I end my turn. Then they can be moved to one of my cities, use their stealth selective attack to take out the arty, then move troops in for the attack without a defensive fire by the arty!!! There is just no way to protect artillery in cities or stacks from querillas. I wish someone had warned me about this!!! I have really learned the hard way and should have spent more time analyzing the guerilla's capability. I really missed the boat on that! Now Tigre somehow has all these tanks to go along with the superhuman guerillas! I'm going to have to figure something out...and quick!

Sully

 

[El_Tigre]

I will refrain from attacking defenseless units inside your cities from now on. I
think it's an exploit, too. Everything outside is fair game, however.

China:
- Canton conquered, 1 MGB and a Fighter destroyed
- 3 NI and a MGB are now trapped deep inside Chinese territory
- destroyed roads near Hanoi
- Artillery from Foochow bombarded the Super BB Yamato down to 1hp

NL:
- bombed Paratrooper next to Sangkoelirang, -1hp

VP: 9392 (Allies) to 9117 (Japan)