TOS V4 Beta PBEM

[WVCivnut]

USA:

• Sank a sub west of Pearl with a BB. Is it possible to set subs so they can't attack capital ships if DDs are present? I think that is how it works in WWII Global. All of my carriers have been eliminated to easily -- in my opinion.

Commonwealth

• Dive bomb attacks against DDs Arashi and Fubuki west of Ketapang.
• The Arashi is sunk by DD attack.
• Fubuki sunk by CA.
• Bombed inf div south of Hangchow.

Dutch:

• Nothing to report.

China:

• Bombed army.

 

[aksully]

Breakout of Kido Butai
Hawaiian Waters...
Kido Butai attempts to break out of Hawaiian waters while sinking 2 CA's..Pensacola and Indianapolis and a CL. But despite several attempts..the DD Dunlap remains afloat and within range. A Gun Action is anticipated next week.

However...Midway Island Captured!
-While the majority of US forces were pursuing Kido Butai...A powerful TF attacked and captured this key airfield. SNLF Marines captured the island and destroyed a B-25, 2 TBDs, and a P-40 Sqdn without loss.

-Meanwhile IJN Naval Aircraft, Ships, and I-Boats in a series of coordinated attacks sank; the BB's Arizona and Tennessee, the CA Chicago, and a CW DD.

-A courageous I-Boat attacked the BB California and caused some damage but the sub was sunk.

Solomen Islands
-US PT Boat Sqdn Sunk by IJN Desron South of Guadalcanal
-Port Moresby bombed by IJAAF bombers injuring units and killing citizens

Java Sea Area
-Palembang Captured by IJA Inf Div. Dutch Garrison KIA.
-Ketapang Captured by SNLF Marines. Dutch Garrison KIA.

Large CW TF sighted! IJN Recon spot TF of 2 CVs, BB, CA, 4 CL's and a DD approaching Ketapang from the south. Numerous IJN ships preparing for a major sea battle!

Celebes Sea Area
-Menado Captured by SNLF Marines...garrison KIA.

China Theater

Near Chungking..Betty shot down by P-40s

Near Ichang
-2 CInf Div KIA by Corps east of city

Near Changsha
-3 CInf Divisions KIA by Arty, air, and Corps attack. Biplane shot down by Zekes.

Near Harbin
-4 Guerilla units KIA by air, cavalry and tank units.

GPS to US

Sully

 

[eric_A]

USA:
Sank a sub west of Pearl with a BB. Is it possible to set subs so they can't attack capital ships if DDs are present? I think that is how it works in WWII Global. All of my carriers have been eliminated to easily -- in my opinion.

WV:
I think it may be you need to use different tactics. Here
is a screen shot of what I mean. You will need a LOT of
escort DDs in the early pary of the game before you
get ASW tech.

 

[aksully]

WV:
I think it may be you need to use different tactics. Here
is a screen shot of what I mean. You will need a LOT of
escort DDs in the early pary of the game before you
get ASW tech.

And I seriously hope that isn't a real TF off of Tarawa!!!!!

Sully

 

[eric_A]

And I seriously hope that isn't a real TF off of Tarawa!!!!!

Sully

Real TF, but different game.

 

[aksully]

is there a thread for that one?

 

[aksully]

Current observations...China seems to be very well done Eric. I think it makes TOS alot stronger along historical lines. Makes the Jap player focus on allocating resources a lot more than TOS3 did. Interesting that both the Chinese Nationals and IJA are "fighting" against Guerillas!! I think you really have it nailed Eric within the limits of the C3C engine!!!

The appearance of a strong CW Naval TF from the Indian Ocean was a surprise to me because...the Indian Ocean wasn't there in TOS 3!!!!

Plus, the larger map Eric, really gives TOS a Pacific Naval War feel.

I'd still maintain there is a real place for CLs as a separate unit in the game along with float/recon planes. Is there a way you could increase CV trans capacity to 4 and use SBD and Kate graphics, rename them Recon so they can still be intercepted? Searching...and then finding the enemy task forces is a great thrill. Much better than running DDs all over the place hoping they hit/find something.

Anyhow...I'm still hoping for a Merrill's Marauders unit too.

Still seems there's not many workers to be able to capture. And Japan seems to start with hardly any. If you don't want it to start with many then perhaps boost the civ pop of its starting cities by a couple to allow them to be "built"??

Sully

 

[WVCivnut]

USA:

• Nothing to report. Nothing left to fight with anyway.

Commonwealth:

• Sank a DD south of Ketapang with air and DD.

Dutch:

• Sank a DD south of Ketapang with a DD.
• Sank a DD west of Makassar with a DD.

China:

• Destroyed Army northwest of Changsha with air and artillery bombardment followed by US Inf.

 

[eric_A]

is there a thread for that one?

No, it was me playing against the AI.

 

[eric_A]

Current observations...China seems to be very well done Eric. I think it makes TOS alot stronger along historical lines. Makes the Jap player focus on allocating resources a lot more than TOS3 did. Interesting that both the Chinese Nationals and IJA are "fighting" against Guerillas!! I think you really have it nailed Eric within the limits of the C3C engine!!!

The appearance of a strong CW Naval TF from the Indian Ocean was a surprise to me because...the Indian Ocean wasn't there in TOS 3!!!!

Plus, the larger map Eric, really gives TOS a Pacific Naval War feel.

I'd still maintain there is a real place for CLs as a separate unit in the game along with float/recon planes. Is there a way you could increase CV trans capacity to 4 and use SBD and Kate graphics, rename them Recon so they can still be intercepted? Searching...and then finding the enemy task forces is a great thrill. Much better than running DDs all over the place hoping they hit/find something.

Sully

Sully:
Thanks for the compliments regarding China.

I was considering the idea of allowing BBs/CAs to carry 1 air unit, along
with a house rule that the only kind of unit they are allowed to carry is
a biplane fighter which would represent the floatplanes. The trouble with
this kind of stuff is maintaining the different versions for SP and MP. The
more changes, the harder it gets. You can't allow the AI to do this or else it
would load up BBs with heavy bombers and use them to bomb cities.
However, if you want to play around with mods for MP like this, be my guest.
I'll even give you modding advice if you need it. I will also put graphics for
the PBY in the final version so you can use that as well.

 

[Luthor_Saxburg]

Is it possible to set subs so they can't attack capital ships if DDs are present? I think that is how it works in WWII Global. All of my carriers have been eliminated to easily -- in my opinion.

Sorry to intrude but I do think this could be a a good idea! At least for BB's and (perhaps) Heavy Cruisers. But not for CV's as that is part of the thrill of the game.

I haven't seen this version, but from my previous experience (V3 and HOF) maybe I would recommend to have a higher number of DD's in the beginning of the game to allow anti-sub fleet protection. Subs 100% invisible is way too powerful. To counter-balance this, maybe nations could start with a limited number (2?) of planes (or ships) that could see Subs?

 

[eric_A]

Sorry to intrude but I do think this could be a a good idea! At least for BB's and (perhaps) Heavy Cruisers. But not for CV's as that is part of the thrill of the game.

I haven't seen this version, but from my previous experience (V3 and HOF) maybe I would recommend to have a higher number of DD's in the beginning of the game to allow anti-sub fleet protection. Subs 100% invisible is way too powerful. To counter-balance this, maybe nations could start with a limited number (2?) of planes (or ships) that could see Subs?

Luthor:
I don't agree. One of the problems with a scenario like this is trying to slow
down the pace of things so that the war is not all over by the end of 1942.
This is especially a problem when playing against the AI. Invisble subs works
well for this, it forces the players to be extremely cautious in the early part
of the game.
I don't think the game engine allows destroyers to prevent stealth attacks
on capital ships. There is the "stealth attack bug" which you can make
use of, if you escort a single transport (or any single ship with a lower
defense rating than destroyers) with DESTROYERS ONLY it will not be possible
to make a stealth attack on it. This could well work for a CVL since I think
it has a lower rating than DDs. In the case of a CV I think it will depend
on the experience level of the DDs vs CV as they are pretty close. I would
have thought everyone knew about this stuff already, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[WVCivnut]

I don't think the game engine allows destroyers to prevent stealth attacks
on capital ships. There is the "stealth attack bug" which you can make
use of, if you escort a single transport (or any single ship with a lower
defense rating than destroyers) with DESTROYERS ONLY it will not be possible
to make a stealth attack on it. This could well work for a CVL since I think
it has a lower rating than DDs. In the case of a CV I think it will depend
on the experience level of the DDs vs CV as they are pretty close. I would
have thought everyone knew about this stuff already, maybe I'm wrong.

This is the first I'd heard of this stealth bug. I had noticed situations like that in WWII Global but thought it was normal for subs. I do agree with Luthor on the number of DDs at the start -- upping the starting number would help. And I will play it different a second time -- this is the first time I've played the US against another player so it had just slipped by me.

 

[eric_A]

This is the first I'd heard of this stealth bug. I had noticed situations like that in WWII Global but thought it was normal for subs. I do agree with Luthor on the number of DDs at the start -- upping the starting number would help. And I will play it different a second time -- this is the first time I've played the US against another player so it had just slipped by me.

WV:
The US has plenty of destroyers, of course they are scattered all
over the map at start. It will take a while to get them all where you need
them, but as I said you don't want the whole war over too soon.

I case you were wondering about the fleet which starts off the coast
of South America; they are the ships which were transfered from the Atlantic
fleet early in the war. But when I tried starting them in the Gulf of Mexico,
the AI was too stupid to move them through Panama so I had to start
them in the Pacific.

 

[aksully]

China Theater
-Near Ichang
--P-40 Shot down by Zeke
--Biplane Shot Down by Zeke
--Chinese Inf Div North of Inchang KIA by NI Div

-NEar Harbin
--Commie Guerilla and Flak KIA by IJA Cavalry and Lt Tank Brigade

-Near Yenan
--CIDiv Redlined by IJAAF attacks

Java Sea Theater
-NW of Batavia
--Betty Bomber shot down by Flak
--Fighter Shot Down by Betty
--BB Warspite Sunk by IJN Kates
--BB Revenge Redlined by IJN Kate

-SE of Singapore
--IJN Fast Trans Sunk by Allied SS
--Allied SS sunk by IJN CA

Hawaiian Waters
-Near Midway
--IBoat sunk by Allied SS
--IJN DD sunk by Allies SS
--Allied SS sunk by CA

Comments; Allied SS's scored heavy in this turn. I got a little sloppy in moving a Trans unit before an escort unit. The probable US SS near Midway was a real nasty! First I move a Regular I-boat right into it from the NW. Then I attack it with a Reg DD frow the SE and it gets waxed! Finally I killed the beast!

The CW Naval TF near Batavia put up a good defense too this turn. I wasn't prepared to counter it.. at first.

The China land battle continues to bog down and cost considerable assets to make even small gains. In the short term...Shane had a big turn last killing a Corps! But it gave me a good sense of what can be done if one over-extends.

Kido Butai seems to have escaped after its 6 month combat tour. But it lost a CV with 2 air units, 2 BB's , 2 CAs, and 2 DDs. A pretty heavy price to pay though by what recon shows... the US Fleet has been neutralized....for now. I've read Eric's take on Search AC and it makes sense. It may be that the C3C engine won't allow the use of that type of unit without unbalencing it in other areas.

GPS to US

Sully

 

[WVCivnut]

Comments; Allied SS's scored heavy in this turn. I got a little sloppy in moving a Trans unit before an escort unit. The probable US SS near Midway was a real nasty! First I move a Regular I-boat right into it from the NW. Then I attack it with a Reg DD frow the SE and it gets waxed! Finally I killed the beast!

The subs are better in defense than offense -- so I have used some them as traps. I would think subs would be better in attack and very week on defense -- but this works too.

 

[eric_A]

The subs are better in defense than offense -- so I have used some them as traps. I would think subs would be better in attack and very week on defense -- but this works too.

WV:
The US subs had defective torpedos at the start of the war. I added
a new tech "improved subs" to simulate this. Once the US gets this tech
the attack strength goes from 3 to 6.

 

[aksully]

WV:
The US subs had defective torpedos at the start of the war. I added
a new tech "improved subs" to simulate this. Once the US gets this tech
the attack strength goes from 3 to 6.

The one I ran into that sank two ships must have found some good torpedoes!
Sully

 

[WVCivnut]

USA:

• Bombed DD northwest of Pearl with B25.
• Attacked fast transport southeast of Rabaul with sub but lost.

Commonwealth:

• Sank a DD and sub north of Batavia with air units and DDs.
• Bombed road south of Hanoi.
• Bombed road west of Hong Kong.

Dutch:

• Nothing to report.

China:

• Shelled army east of Ichang.

 

[aksully]

China Theater
-Near Ichang
-- 7 Chinese Inf Div North of Inchang KIA by NI Divisions and Corps but the city still held and remains in Chinese hands

-Near Yenan
--2 Chinese Inf Divs were KIA by NI Divisions

Celebes Sea Theater
-Makassar Captured by SNLF Marines. 1 DInf Div KIA.
-CW DD Sunk by IJN DD SW of Makassar

Hawaiian Waters
-NE of Pearl Harbor. Another major naval battle was fought and won by the IJN and Kido Butai NE of PH. The I-Boat I-21 scouting east of PH spotted a strong US TF comprised of the BBs California, Colorado, and Nevada, 2 DDs, a Fast Transport, and a large Transport screened by at least 2 SSs! I-21 reported the location of the TF to Kido Butai which launched scores of Vals and Kates. The enemy TF without the benefit of air cover..was overwhelmed. The 3 BB's, the Fast Trans, and a DD were sunk after numerous bomb and torpedo hits. The large Trans and a DD remained afloat and as I-21 approached to attack it ran into an SS which sank the gallant I-Boat. An IJN DD moved in to finish off the Trans and it was sunk by another SS. A small TF was dispatched from Kido Butai and it sunk the Trans and SS. A SS and DD are all that remain of the US TF.

GPS to US
Sully

Comments; A TF without air cover means disaster. It is obvious that the US is without CVs since it risked moving a TF within range of Kido Butai. In a very rare turn for me...I did not lose one aircraft to flak from the 3 BBs.

The major CW TF near the Java Sea which caused some serious damage to the IJN last turn has vanished outside the range of my land based aircraft. This is a time when long range float planes would be useful. Too bad the C3C engine won't support this.