Total War: Shogun 2 and the lessons 2k should learn from The Creative Assembly

[Ermak-]

The demo is absolutely fabulous! The game with such an enormous graphics and 3D animations to a pimple runs VERY VERY smooth! I immidiatly pre-bough the game. The only thing i fear is repetition of single player campign which they said they adressed with FOCUS (unlike ciV) on multiplayer. CA will wipe the floor with obese Sid Meyer simmering in his own excroment.

 

[pazmacats]

For the first time Im happy for having steam, because it made possible to me to download the Total War: Shogun 2 demo.

What a great game!

Lets see what "revolutionary" things The Creative Assembly have done with this new edition of the total war series:

Hmm, they keep all the good stuff from the past titles and improved then.

Wow, thats is truly revolutionary..I can see why 2k couldnt think in doing the same with civ V.

You know, Shogun 2 will probably sell a lot more than civ V and it is a much complex game. That will prove that you dont need to "dumb down" a game to sell it.

Im really sad with the direction choose by the civ developers and I hope they can learn from the others strategy games on the market.

Everybody here should download this demo and see what strategy games can already achieve. Im really impressed with shogun 2 and the deep concepts in it. I would love to see some of then on my next civ game or expasion.


Sry the broken english.

You are believing marketing sh!t again. Just like Civ5's marketing...

Every single game after the 1st Shogun was a big failure. BIG marketing budget, zero innovation, flawed historical accuracy, non-existant AI.

The only thing that rescued all the Total War games was graphics.

It's the most hyped series in gaming history. It's basically playing a bad RTS-clone with a broken campaign map.

 

[Thormodr]

Looks pretty promising.

The Total War series has had very bad AI for awhile though.

Hopefully that will be fixed with the newest release but I'm not optimistic.

Game and graphics look amazing though and Japanese history does appeal to me.

I'll take a wait and see attitude about this one but it definitely has my interest.

 

[Olaf_The_Great]

And get the hell away from Steam.

 

[bhavv]

You all played HOMM V? I have the gold edition and its terrific.

I like Shogun and Rome totalt war, Ididnt like the others. I like the strategy map gameplay, but I hate the battles too much and usually automate every battle.

Even though its an RTS and a TBS, if anyone hasnt tried it yet, you really need to get Anno 1404 Gold Edition. Its one of the best RTS games in a very long time, and maddeningly addictive.

 

[bhavv]

You are believing marketing sh!t again. Just like Civ5's marketing...

Every single game after the 1st Shogun was a big failure. BIG marketing budget, zero innovation, flawed historical accuracy, non-existant AI.

The only thing that rescued all the Total War games was graphics.

It's the most hyped series in gaming history. It's basically playing a bad RTS-clone with a broken campaign map.

Nah, Rome was absolutely brilliant.

 

[jojorah]

When I said "revolutionary" I was being ironic of course...

I disagree with most plp here, for me civ V is a lot more tedious and annoing than any TW.

Just dont make sense. One civ invades you, you kill 7-8 units and then you make a peace pact where they give you 3 cities and all their gold and resources.

I cant play this game without some MODs, its that bad.

Btw, the only hope I have to civ v is that they open the codes for the modders, then thalacius, alpaca and the others can do their magic.

to me it sounds like you are a little po with the civ series not civ 5. Of course i dont know what you mean by tedious but it sounds like you dont like micromanaging and waiting(thats the civ series!). Any way fraxis can tell that civization series is at risk and they seem to be intent on improving the capilations and such with patchs(at least i hope). They thing i like about civ is the replay value and it ability to change during the game. And i dont want to sound rude but why are you posting at the civ 5 forum if you think the game is tedius, this is a fan site. different games are appealing to different people. Btw this is off topic but there giving free trails of rise of nations.

 

[jacyp]

You are believing marketing sh!t again. Just like Civ5's marketing...

Every single game after the 1st Shogun was a big failure. BIG marketing budget, zero innovation, flawed historical accuracy, non-existant AI.

The only thing that rescued all the Total War games was graphics.

It's the most hyped series in gaming history. It's basically playing a bad RTS-clone with a broken campaign map.

Sorry dude, I just played the Shogun 2 demo, you're a 150% wrong.

I dare say that you have never played a total war game whatsoever, since you talked a lot of nonsense.

Shogun 2 is awesome. I say cos I just played it. It's a real demo with all features at display, not a limited thing disguising the bugs like Civ 5's demo was. It even has a encyclopedia accessible at any time that puts civilopedia to shame.

Good bye Buglization 5, welcome Shogun 2: Total War.

 

[Thormodr]

Sorry dude, I just played the Shogun 2 demo, you're a 150% wrong.

I dare say that you have never played a total war game whatsoever, since you talked a lot of nonsense.

Shogun 2 is awesome. I say cos I just played it. It's a real demo with all features at display, not a limited thing disguising the bugs like Civ 5's demo was. It even has a encyclopedia accessible at any time that puts civilopedia to shame.

Good bye Buglization 5, welcome Shogun 2: Total War.

Competition is a very good thing.

Hopefully CA can actually program a working AI, let alone a good one though.

 

[nokmirt]

For the first time Im happy for having steam, because it made possible to me to download the Total War: Shogun 2 demo.

What a great game!

Lets see what "revolutionary" things The Creative Assembly have done with this new edition of the total war series:

Hmm, they keep all the good stuff from the past titles and improved then.

Wow, thats is truly revolutionary..I can see why 2k couldnt think in doing the same with civ V.

You know, Shogun 2 will probably sell a lot more than civ V and it is a much complex game. That will prove that you dont need to "dumb down" a game to sell it.

Im really sad with the direction choose by the civ developers and I hope they can learn from the others strategy games on the market.

Everybody here should download this demo and see what strategy games can already achieve. Im really impressed with shogun 2 and the deep concepts in it. I would love to see some of then on my next civ game or expasion.


Sry the broken english.

I pre-ordered this game and it looks like it is on a whole new level from NTW. NTW is a good game, but they should redo earlier total war games and update them to match the concepts in shogun 2. I watched a video with ninjas getting ready to do some dirty work. There are levels of intrigue in any history we learn about, and I feel they should be added to games to make them more interesting. I also hear the AI is not going to be a pushover.

BTW the AI in NTW was far better than ETW. I am sure CA has concentrated on making it even alot better for shogun 2, unlike what Firaxis did for CiV. I hope this is a lesson to Firaxis so they will fix the issue with CiV.

 

[CurseUppl]

So it looks to me that you're simply a fan of ancient and medieval ways of combat, like many that didn't like Empire or Napoleon, and that's fine.

You're right

Hopefully S2:TW will satisfy my melee blood lust.

 

[pazmacats]

Sorry dude, I just played the Shogun 2 demo, you're a 150% wrong.

I dare say that you have never played a total war game whatsoever, since you talked a lot of nonsense.

Shogun 2 is awesome. I say cos I just played it. It's a real demo with all features at display, not a limited thing disguising the bugs like Civ 5's demo was. It even has a encyclopedia accessible at any time that puts civilopedia to shame.

Good bye Buglization 5, welcome Shogun 2: Total War.

Sorry dude, I just played the Shogun 2 demo, you're a 150% wrong.

I dare say that you have never played a total war game whatsoever, since you talked a lot of nonsense.

Shogun 2 is totally bad. I say cos I just played it. It's a real demo, not the full game. Though it has a encyclopedia accessible at any time that puts civilopedia to shame, it still doesn't provide a strategic challenge. Fighting throngs of badly composed armies still gets old really fast.

 

[Fabiano79]

to me it sounds like you are a little po with the civ series not civ 5. Of course i dont know what you mean by tedious but it sounds like you dont like micromanaging and waiting(thats the civ series!). Any way fraxis can tell that civization series is at risk and they seem to be intent on improving the capilations and such with patchs(at least i hope). They thing i like about civ is the replay value and it ability to change during the game. And i dont want to sound rude but why are you posting at the civ 5 forum if you think the game is tedius, this is a fan site. different games are appealing to different people. Btw this is off topic but there giving free trails of rise of nations.

Actually, I can say that Im a bigger fan of civ series than TW. I love micromanagement and empires building. And, IM sorry to say, but civ V dont have both.

You guys can see that everyone here who tried the shogun 2 demo liked. Those complaining about TW did not played shogun 2. Cmon, its free. Try it and then come here to say your impressions.

My poiny is, while firafix/2k removed features of the civ series, CA just add new stuff keeping all the caracteriscts of the TW series. Thats is what I would like to see on civ...every edition being more complex and challenging.

Again sorry, but its just see all the threads about how this edition is "for dummies". You cant play this game serious (read the thread about the most ridiculous AI mistakes). How can I be immerse in a game where a civ who was my friend for a 1000 years decide to go to war because I have few troups, and then, when I defeat the first wave of invaders (any player can defeat 12 enemy units with 4 troups), the civ just quit the game giving me severeal cities and all her resources and gold.

Sorry, civ V (without the MODs) has a long way to go before can be called a civilization game.

 

[Maniacal]

You guys can see that everyone here who tried the shogun 2 demo liked. Those complaining about TW did not played shogun 2. Cmon, its free. Try it and then come here to say your impressions.

I tried the demo for Shogun 2, and since everything was completely scripted and you were mostly stuck with a tutorial level and a very difficult (and again scripted) historical battle its too early to know if the game is going to really be a major improvement over the previous TW games or not. And either way I am going to wait until the Gold Edition comes out.

Medieval 2 and Rome were awesome, but I found myself looking for the best mods and will never play the vastly inferior vanilla again (Europa Barbarorum for Rome and Stainless Steel for Medieval 2).

 

[CossackProblem]

Total War games are almost all awful. The first Shogun/Medieval were pretty solid titles; the simplicity helped those games a lot compared to their 3D brothers. Rome: Total War is not a good game, but it got a pass because it was breaking some moderate new ground. Instead of improving CA has churned out half-assed game after game. Empire was a gigantic flop, not to mention a pretty good tip off that yes, reviewers are probably being paid since nobody could possibly miss the vast array of bugs that were present. I blew $60 on Empire, $60 to never buy a CA title again and to forever shut the door on gaming "journalism".

 

[pazmacats]

Total War games are almost all awful. The first Shogun/Medieval were pretty solid titles; the simplicity helped those games a lot compared to their 3D brothers. Rome: Total War is not a good game, but it got a pass because it was breaking some moderate new ground. Instead of improving CA has churned out half-assed game after game. Empire was a gigantic flop, not to mention a pretty good tip off that yes, reviewers are probably being paid since nobody could possibly miss the vast array of bugs that were present. I blew $60 on Empire, $60 to never buy a CA title again and to forever shut the door on gaming "journalism".

That sums up my experience as well.

The thing that is so bad about TW games (and about Civ5) is the way they are presented to the public. Innovation was present in the first titles. But in Civ5 and all the games after the first Shogun the success of the earlier titles was used as a marketing tool. This seems to only work in gaming industry. Imagine buying a Coke without sugar, a Mercedes that breaks down after 20 hours or a graphic card that only gives you 30 FPS... No matter how sucessful they were in the past, it will be the end of their reputation.

Yet everybody living from the gaming industry insists that TW and Civ5 are the pinnacle of gaming evolution...

 

[Fabiano79]

Total War games are almost all awful. The first Shogun/Medieval were pretty solid titles; the simplicity helped those games a lot compared to their 3D brothers. Rome: Total War is not a good game, but it got a pass because it was breaking some moderate new ground. Instead of improving CA has churned out half-assed game after game. Empire was a gigantic flop, not to mention a pretty good tip off that yes, reviewers are probably being paid since nobody could possibly miss the vast array of bugs that were present. I blew $60 on Empire, $60 to never buy a CA title again and to forever shut the door on gaming "journalism".

If TW and CIV sucks, what can we play now?

EU? Victoria? Go back to Galactic civilizations? Try to enjoy some rts?

I dont know, but my hopes are with the shogun 2..theres no strategy game on the market right now that can deliver some entertainment.

 

[Thormodr]

If TW and CIV sucks, what can we play now?

EU? Victoria? Go back to Galactic civilizations? Try to enjoy some rts?

I dont know, but my hopes are with the shogun 2..theres no strategy game on the market right now that can deliver some entertainment.

Although Elemental: War of Magic had an extremely rough launch and is still middling at best, the stand alone expansion Fallen Enchantress (which is Kael's baby) is looking pretty promising so far:

http://asia.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/elementalwarofmagicfallenenchantress/video/6300944/elemental-fallen-enchantress-developer-diary?nonRedirectElement=1

 

[jacyp]

Competition is a very good thing.

Hopefully CA can actually program a working AI, let alone a good one though.

Even if the AI sucks, I prefer to have an awesome game with poor, but fixable by modders, AI, than to have a buggy game, with buggy EVERYTHING from graphics to the very coreplay, with an AI that sucks and isn't fixable by anyone but the developers who just don't.

Most people that criticize the AI of total war games appear to simply don't know that the AI in total war series is a matter of tweaking and optimizing the database table that control their actions. Something that anyone can do, something that someone always do and improve the game 100% in a matter of few months after release.

Sorry dude, I just played the Shogun 2 demo, you're a 150% wrong.

I dare say that you have never played a total war game whatsoever, since you talked a lot of nonsense.

Shogun 2 is totally bad. I say cos I just played it. It's a real demo, not the full game. Though it has a encyclopedia accessible at any time that puts civilopedia to shame, it still doesn't provide a strategic challenge. Fighting throngs of badly composed armies still gets old really fast.

I am very sorry that you were hoping for epic battles with thousand of units, with a sample of every unit available in the full game, FROM A DEMO.

Yeah, that's very reasonable from you. Excuse me for not giving any credit to your weird logic.

 

[Thormodr]

Even if the AI sucks, I prefer to have an awesome game with poor, but fixable by modders, AI, than to have a buggy game, with buggy EVERYTHING from graphics to the very coreplay, with an AI that sucks and isn't fixable by anyone but the developers who just don't.

Most people that criticize the AI of total war games appear to simply don't know that the AI in total war series is a matter of tweaking and optimizing the database table that control their actions. Something that anyone can do, something that someone always do and improve the game 100% in a matter of few months after release.

The trouble with that is that it encourages game developers to put out sloppy half arsed products.

Hopefully the AI is at least competent to start and that the game is extremely moddable.

I'll wait and see as I got burnt on Empire Total War as well as Civilization 5. Give it time for the hype to die down so I can make an informed decision.

I really do want this game to be awesome and succeed though. Just like I wanted Civilization 5 to be awesome.