TR01 - Help a loser out
- Thread starter Tubby Rower
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Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Please detail as much as you can so that I can compare what I'm able to do. I'll try to trade with the save once I get home.dmanakho said:
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I checked crpStats and we currently only have one settler. Aenigma mentioned that the scout settler was close to barbs but never mentioned him again. If Istanbul was on track it should have produced a settler near the end of his turnset.dmanakho said:
Minute Man
Prince
Good morning, all.
Nice set of turns, Enigma. That trading screen just screams brokering opportunity. I agree with getttimg Math from India, even if it is expensive, and selling it around to everybody else. We should make a nice profit.
Btw, I don't think we were really planning a mass chariot upgrade; we were just building chariots because we didn't have HBR yet. So no big deal there.
I guess that's not our scouting settler after all. Even if it is, IMO we can probably use him at this point without unbalancing the game too much in our favor.
Nice set of turns, Enigma. That trading screen just screams brokering opportunity. I agree with getttimg Math from India, even if it is expensive, and selling it around to everybody else. We should make a nice profit.
Btw, I don't think we were really planning a mass chariot upgrade; we were just building chariots because we didn't have HBR yet. So no big deal there.
ÆnigmÆffect said:
I guess that's not our scouting settler after all. Even if it is, IMO we can probably use him at this point without unbalancing the game too much in our favor.
ÆnigmÆffect
Warlord
Good morning. Just quick answers before going into work.
Bonus settler got eaten by barbs. Forgot to mention it. Settler in Iron Horse is good for use.
For settler factory, I meant do we want to try waiting to start settler when we're pop4? Right now, I usually start right when the last one finished, which is pop 2 or 3.
American dude left. Never even went into our territory.
Okay, going to work now. Catch you guys then.
Bonus settler got eaten by barbs. Forgot to mention it. Settler in Iron Horse is good for use.
For settler factory, I meant do we want to try waiting to start settler when we're pop4? Right now, I usually start right when the last one finished, which is pop 2 or 3.
American dude left. Never even went into our territory.
Okay, going to work now. Catch you guys then.
I decided to use my lunch period and play a little. So far made 5 turns. The rest will play tonight at home.
Pre-turn check: MM around Ankara and we can get extra shield there.
MM Around Izmit and get us an extra shiny gold there.
Switch Aydin to worker for now.
Now we need to do some trading.
We have 328Gold and nice income of +23Gpt
Going to Gandhi. He behaves like used car salesman and after long negotiation
We give him HBR+267Gold and He gives us math.
Going to others.
Looks like Americans are researching Mathematics. They have 2 techs on us and 150gold and only willing to spend 59Gold for Math... Okay.... I will go for it.
Both Incas and Russians have MM against our Math. Incas give us better deal - 22Gold less, but they also have 80 gold in treasury and Russians have only 11 gold.
So if I Buy MM from Russians for 101 gold and then sell it to Incas for all the gold they have we will actually have a better deal.
So we shall do.
Math and 101 gold goes to Russians in exchange for MM.
We sell Math to Incas for 99Gold
Cleo pays us 84Gold for MM
Japs pay 80Gold for MM
Going back to Gandhi who I definitely remember seen selling junk cars in past.
We ask how much he will give us for MM and after negotiation he pays us 242Gold!
This is what I call tech brokering. Before I hit next turn we have extra 2 technologies, whopping 524Gold (196 of which is pure profit) and same +23GPT income. One thing I don't like there are still AIs left with cash in their pockets... We will have to rob them next time.
Have you guys noticed Americans have literature??? I bet you they popped it from hut.
No way would Ai research Literature as 1st priority so early in the game.
America would sell literature for 400Gold. No way... I will get it for better price later. We don't need it now anyways.
Another important discovery... Americans were researching Math all this time.
They never ever started working on Philosophy and they are the only ones who had a chance to do it for some time. Other tribes learned writing relatively short time ago.
We just might have a chance to pull philosophy and free gift tech.
With science at 100% and two wise men we can get Phylo in 5 turns running -3Gpt deficit.
I am willing to take this risk. If we succeed we can shave 20 turns on self-researching currency.
IBT: Barb warrior attacks our warrior near Ankara and dies.
T1. 1225BC. settler moves to the blue square city and there is a barb horse in reach. Houston we have a slight problem. Scouting warrior finds another source of ivory in far away land. I was hoping us and Incas would be the only tribes to claim ToZ...
May be we need to build it after all if opportunity comes. (Having second and then 3rd thought on that one though, hate wasting shields on wonders).
One comment on worker actions. Please don't use workers in packs of 3 unless clearing wetlands or working on mountains. Our cities grow slow and it will be more efficient to use one worker per tile. I guess Izmit is somewhat exception since we wanted to improve tiles around that city fast.
Cleo knows Polytheism. She doesn't have math but she wants math and 520 gold, so I say forget it lady. Philosophy in 4 turns, nobody has it yet.
IBT. Barbarian horses came from north and from south. We need to clean that southern peninsula fast.
T2. 1200BC. Horse kills barb horse near Iron horse.
Warrior kills barb horse near bursa.
T3. 1175BC Iron Horse barracks->horse
Philosophy in 3 and we still have a clear shot
Warrior kills barbarian on S. Pen. Settler is delivered to settle next turn.
IBT. Barb horse kills our warrior
T4. 1150BC. Antalya is founded switch to worker.
Istanbul settler->spear
Edrine horse->horse
Philosophy is clear and still in 1 turn.
T5. 1125BC. Philosophy comes and I with hope choose Currency and YES!!!! We get it for free...
Set to CoL at max in 9turns.
Now lets see trading possibilities. Guess what Incas have researched Phylo same turn with us but I guess we were 1st ones in a round... Lucky us, that was a huge gamble.
I am not going to sell currency yet.
American is willing to pay us Lit+140gold for Phylo or 242G=all the money they have
I take money since they are not only ones who know literature.
Katy of Russia is willing to give us literature for Phylo and 10gold... Well, she is broke and could use those 10gold for rainy day.
We robbed every Ai except Cleo. Cleo has Poly and wants Phylo+Math+Literature+192gold for it...
Questions to the team:
Do you think we should buy from Cleo or should we wait?
Why have I made decision to sell Math for gold to America 1st and then trade techs with Incas and Russians?
What was the negative effect of selling Math to America 1st?
Pre-turn check: MM around Ankara and we can get extra shield there.
MM Around Izmit and get us an extra shiny gold there.
Switch Aydin to worker for now.
Now we need to do some trading.
We have 328Gold and nice income of +23Gpt
Going to Gandhi. He behaves like used car salesman and after long negotiation
We give him HBR+267Gold and He gives us math.
Going to others.
Looks like Americans are researching Mathematics. They have 2 techs on us and 150gold and only willing to spend 59Gold for Math... Okay.... I will go for it.
Both Incas and Russians have MM against our Math. Incas give us better deal - 22Gold less, but they also have 80 gold in treasury and Russians have only 11 gold.
So if I Buy MM from Russians for 101 gold and then sell it to Incas for all the gold they have we will actually have a better deal.
So we shall do.
Math and 101 gold goes to Russians in exchange for MM.
We sell Math to Incas for 99Gold
Cleo pays us 84Gold for MM
Japs pay 80Gold for MM
Going back to Gandhi who I definitely remember seen selling junk cars in past.
We ask how much he will give us for MM and after negotiation he pays us 242Gold!
This is what I call tech brokering. Before I hit next turn we have extra 2 technologies, whopping 524Gold (196 of which is pure profit) and same +23GPT income. One thing I don't like there are still AIs left with cash in their pockets... We will have to rob them next time.
Have you guys noticed Americans have literature??? I bet you they popped it from hut.
No way would Ai research Literature as 1st priority so early in the game.
America would sell literature for 400Gold. No way... I will get it for better price later. We don't need it now anyways.
Another important discovery... Americans were researching Math all this time.
They never ever started working on Philosophy and they are the only ones who had a chance to do it for some time. Other tribes learned writing relatively short time ago.
We just might have a chance to pull philosophy and free gift tech.
With science at 100% and two wise men we can get Phylo in 5 turns running -3Gpt deficit.
I am willing to take this risk. If we succeed we can shave 20 turns on self-researching currency.
IBT: Barb warrior attacks our warrior near Ankara and dies.
T1. 1225BC. settler moves to the blue square city and there is a barb horse in reach. Houston we have a slight problem. Scouting warrior finds another source of ivory in far away land. I was hoping us and Incas would be the only tribes to claim ToZ...
May be we need to build it after all if opportunity comes. (Having second and then 3rd thought on that one though, hate wasting shields on wonders).
One comment on worker actions. Please don't use workers in packs of 3 unless clearing wetlands or working on mountains. Our cities grow slow and it will be more efficient to use one worker per tile. I guess Izmit is somewhat exception since we wanted to improve tiles around that city fast.
Cleo knows Polytheism. She doesn't have math but she wants math and 520 gold, so I say forget it lady. Philosophy in 4 turns, nobody has it yet.
IBT. Barbarian horses came from north and from south. We need to clean that southern peninsula fast.
T2. 1200BC. Horse kills barb horse near Iron horse.
Warrior kills barb horse near bursa.T3. 1175BC Iron Horse barracks->horse
Philosophy in 3 and we still have a clear shot
Warrior kills barbarian on S. Pen. Settler is delivered to settle next turn.
IBT. Barb horse kills our warrior
T4. 1150BC. Antalya is founded switch to worker.
Istanbul settler->spear
Edrine horse->horse
Philosophy is clear and still in 1 turn.
T5. 1125BC. Philosophy comes and I with hope choose Currency and YES!!!! We get it for free...
Set to CoL at max in 9turns.
Now lets see trading possibilities. Guess what Incas have researched Phylo same turn with us but I guess we were 1st ones in a round... Lucky us, that was a huge gamble.
I am not going to sell currency yet.
American is willing to pay us Lit+140gold for Phylo or 242G=all the money they have
I take money since they are not only ones who know literature.
Katy of Russia is willing to give us literature for Phylo and 10gold... Well, she is broke and could use those 10gold for rainy day.
We robbed every Ai except Cleo. Cleo has Poly and wants Phylo+Math+Literature+192gold for it...
Questions to the team:
Do you think we should buy from Cleo or should we wait?
Why have I made decision to sell Math for gold to America 1st and then trade techs with Incas and Russians?
What was the negative effect of selling Math to America 1st?
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Here are my educated guesses to your questions....
So how'd I do on your quiz??
EDIT: BTW, thanks for posting the tech trading, and WTG on the free currency.
I would have screwed that up!
I think that we should wait. It looks like you took all of the money from the other civs and we wouldn't be able to recover the price. Let someone else pay the hefty price and then we could buy it from them (or pointy-stick it out of Cleodmanakho said:
Because the amount of gold would have been reduced if you traded it around first
no that's wrong they don't I thought that they did, but according to the map as of the end of AEnigma's turn no one has that ivory yet. Also you got less out of the Incas and Russians since Licoln knew it.me said:
So how'd I do on your quiz??
EDIT: BTW, thanks for posting the tech trading, and WTG on the free currency.
I would have screwed that up!@Tubby: I'll tell ya later when we hear what others think 
Looks like we've just had a nice jump start towards MA. That is what happens when you have so many tribes on one piece of land.
It also looks like we are not going to have much of AA warfare after all.
we only have to buy 1 and research 2 techs and by the end of my turns I am pretty sure we will be only couple of turns away from CoL.
On retrospective I should have chosen Construction as gree gift, it is more expensive.
We will research CoL sell it to AIs. No doubt all AIs will start researching optional Republic/Monarchy techs.
Two possible directions for us to go.
1. Outresearch AIs in republic, revolt and then research construction Try try to do "free tech" trick as it was prescribed in MA article.
2. Don't research republic, but research Construction, buy poly. Enter MA, claim our free tech in MA and research at max towards MT. Once AIs self-research Repulic buy it from them for one of MA techs and revolt.
Problem with 1st solution - we are too weak for republic. Don't have enough pop and will run with deficit for quite some time. We will also have very low army support for quite some time.
Problem with second - we don't know how long will it take to AIs to research republic.
Problem with both solutions - we will be picked by AIs, therefor we have to start building horses and more horses to have our military on the same level and above with them.
Here comes warfare thingy again.
If everyone enters MAs soon itwon't make sense using horses or even swords against pikes. Instead of starting early global war, we might have few small ones... like taking that incense from Egypt or Ivory from Incas and then making peace for money. We will see how it goes, but right now it feels like we are going to fight with knights rather than horses...
Therefore keep building horses...
We may want to change Izmit to start ToZ. and have Edrine keep building horses non-stop. I would only squeeze worker out of it when it reaches pop 6 or so. That way production rate won't be penalised much. And remember - we only build spears for MP purposes and covering settlers.
Every defensive war should be played offensively. I am going to switch Ankara to library to expand borders
Looks like we've just had a nice jump start towards MA. That is what happens when you have so many tribes on one piece of land.
It also looks like we are not going to have much of AA warfare after all.
we only have to buy 1 and research 2 techs and by the end of my turns I am pretty sure we will be only couple of turns away from CoL.
On retrospective I should have chosen Construction as gree gift, it is more expensive.
We will research CoL sell it to AIs. No doubt all AIs will start researching optional Republic/Monarchy techs.
Two possible directions for us to go.
1. Outresearch AIs in republic, revolt and then research construction Try try to do "free tech" trick as it was prescribed in MA article.
2. Don't research republic, but research Construction, buy poly. Enter MA, claim our free tech in MA and research at max towards MT. Once AIs self-research Repulic buy it from them for one of MA techs and revolt.
Problem with 1st solution - we are too weak for republic. Don't have enough pop and will run with deficit for quite some time. We will also have very low army support for quite some time.
Problem with second - we don't know how long will it take to AIs to research republic.
Problem with both solutions - we will be picked by AIs, therefor we have to start building horses and more horses to have our military on the same level and above with them.
Here comes warfare thingy again.
If everyone enters MAs soon itwon't make sense using horses or even swords against pikes. Instead of starting early global war, we might have few small ones... like taking that incense from Egypt or Ivory from Incas and then making peace for money. We will see how it goes, but right now it feels like we are going to fight with knights rather than horses...
Therefore keep building horses...
We may want to change Izmit to start ToZ. and have Edrine keep building horses non-stop. I would only squeeze worker out of it when it reaches pop 6 or so. That way production rate won't be penalised much. And remember - we only build spears for MP purposes and covering settlers.
Every defensive war should be played offensively. I am going to switch Ankara to library to expand borders
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I like the 2nd solution. It sounds like the 1st solution will hold us back a little. I don't mind staying in despo for a little longer. I don't think that the Ai's will take too long with Republic.dmanakho said:
Minute Man
Prince
Nice job on the tech trading, dman! 
That was even better than I was expecting.
We wait. Poly doesn't do anything immediately important for us, and you've already robbed most of the other civs blind. Let's wait until the price comes down.
You wanted to take as much gold as possible out of the pockets of the tech leader?
You had to pay the Russians more for MM, since Math wasn't worth as much as it would be if America didn't have it.
That was even better than I was expecting.dmanakho said:
We wait. Poly doesn't do anything immediately important for us, and you've already robbed most of the other civs blind. Let's wait until the price comes down.
dmanakho said:
You wanted to take as much gold as possible out of the pockets of the tech leader?
dmanakho said:
You had to pay the Russians more for MM, since Math wasn't worth as much as it would be if America didn't have it.
Minute Man
Prince
Sorry for double post...you guys are just way too fast for me.
Not to mention three different expansionist civs popping techs from huts and trading them around.
I like option #2 as well.
Do we know who else has iron?
dmanakho said:
Not to mention three different expansionist civs popping techs from huts and trading them around.
dmanakho said:
I like option #2 as well.
dmanakho said:
Do we know who else has iron?
dmanakho said:Philosophy comes and I with hope choose Currency and YES!!!! We get it for free...
I got the impression from your report that buying Polytheism from Cleo would have 0 resale value. That doesn't sound very good to me.dmanakho said:
America had already been researching Math, so if you had traded it to anyone else first, you wouldn't have been able to get anything from Abe later on.
The downside is that your near-monopoly bargaining price went to a civ that wouldn't pay all of it, so you get less gold from the other civs than you might have been able to.
In order to have republic for trading, we'd have to get it and construction before Russia or Persia (do we know them yet?) get ~halfway through republic. Even then, they could draw monotheism and engineering, so we don't get a shot at a required 2nd-tier MA tech (just theology).dmanakho said:
I definitely like option 2 more.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
As for visible iron, Japan for sure. India or the Incans will secure the iron in the middle-north of the continent. There is also some more iron in the middle and that'll be up for grabs between Russians, Japan, India, & Egypt. Also there is some more near Philadelphia that Russia also has a chance for.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
How do you know if what someone is researching?Veovim said:
No we don't.Veovim said:
Few more ideas...(and you can definetely guess how much of real job i've actually done today)
Why don't i start researching Construction at max instead of CoL.
I think we will research constructions at about the same time when one of AIs comes with CoL (someone else ought to start researching CoL right?) and we will trade immediately moving to MAs...
I am thinking on switching Izmit to ToZ... It is least corrupted city after our capital. The reason i am thinking about it I am not sure Incas will be the ones to get it 1st and the 3rd source of ivory is quite far from where we are.
We need to decide on location for Forbidden Palace. Iron Horse would probably be a good location.
Any suggestions?
Why don't i start researching Construction at max instead of CoL.
I think we will research constructions at about the same time when one of AIs comes with CoL (someone else ought to start researching CoL right?) and we will trade immediately moving to MAs...
I am thinking on switching Izmit to ToZ... It is least corrupted city after our capital. The reason i am thinking about it I am not sure Incas will be the ones to get it 1st and the 3rd source of ivory is quite far from where we are.
We need to decide on location for Forbidden Palace. Iron Horse would probably be a good location.
Any suggestions?
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