TR02 - Losers move up to Emporer

[dmanakho]

If we get writing 1st we will be able to trade it for everything AIs have including IW...
We can buy IW right now for cash, but i would prefer workers at this moment. (ah, i am repeating myself again)

Question is - do we want to trade writing right away, or do we want to gamble and keep it (and one of the AIs might pop hut or self-research only a turn or two after us and still beat us to Phil. leaving us with nothing).

This map also feels like pangea map and if it is so research will be faster than we want it to be and phil. gambling even more dangerous. (depends on how soon AIs will learn about each other if haven't already)

 

[Tubby Rower]

We still have 4 unmet civs out there. They could be on another continent. I like keeping writing for a little while at least 5-7 turns to give us a head start on Phil.

I agree to get more workers. If we have to expand into the haunted jungle we'll have to get all the help that we can get!!!

 

[dmanakho]

Why scouting archers?

I guess it is safer if barbs are met to scout with archers...
But it likely to be waste of shields due to cost associated with archer build...(compared to warrior)
On emperor level we can't afford to build mil. units we can't use...
Although, sometimes you have no choice but building archers.
warriors are better due to direct upgrade to legion and horses will last us until the end of IAs within upgrade cycle.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

@ tubby, I'm on dial up too. Thus my comments about all the xposts.

Thou I lurked TR01, don't know if you guys covered why it is better to build offensive units to keep the AI at bay... IIRC there's an article in the War Academy.

RE the despotic GA. Something to be avoided. however, our UU would usually demand early war except for the spacing of this game. That was clear as mud wasn't it?

 

[Tubby Rower]

I just noticed that Russia has HBR. Should we get that & trade it around?

 

[Tubby Rower]

I remember some body saying something about offensive units add more to your power than defensive units and therefore cause the AI to think twice about demanding anything from you.

I agree if it was a crowded map (which this one isn't for some reason) then legions would be awesome to go run around and stomp a few civs real early. But Russia looks to be the closest @ ~ 20 tiles away so it would take 20 turns to get a legionaire up there. So let's build chariots then upgrade to horses!!

 

[dmanakho]

@ tubby, I'm on dial up too. Thus my comments about all the xposts.

You guys just have to convert to broadband..
I have 3Mbit cable in my house and having a good time sitting in front of the laptop in nice warm kitchen sipping hot tea while watching civ. forums.

Thou I lurked TR01, don't know if you guys covered why it is better to build offensive units to keep the AI at bay... IIRC there's an article in the War Academy.

I thought we did, We build offensive units because we are going to have offensive wars only... Slam AIs, slam

RE the despotic GA. Something to be avoided. however, our UU would usually demand early war except for the spacing of this game. That was clear as mud wasn't it?

That's why we need to convert to republic ASAP before using legions.
And with the spacing of this game our UU will be painfully slow. AIs are not good at putting roads together until middle of MAs that means one tile at a turn our speed is going to be with Legions. However we still can use them once in Republic for tactical purposes.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

HBR can wait.

The AI calculates how strong you are based on some formula that's too deep for me. Suffice to say that archers (an offensive unit) have more value than spears (a defensive unit). Thus comparing 5 archers to 5 spears, the AI would tend to avoid you more if you have 5 archers.

We can get more warriors in a shorter time, but I sometimes build archers for quality over quantity due to unit support costs.

Archers, when stacked, also have that defensive bombard capacity. Doesn't look like we have to worry about the AI in this game, but I'm paranoid in addition to my idiocy.

Bottom line:
1: expand fast
2. get Phil. first

 

[Tubby Rower]

@ dman, could you put a T in your line and run it up to Virginia for me? The loss over the line would probably be too great though..


Ok. I think that the only thing that's left to talk about is the cities. What did you think about my thoughts?

On the dot-map, pink 1st then yellow then burgundy. unless that is a horse 1 W of burgundy then go there after pink to keep it from Russia.

 

[dmanakho]

I second on what Admiral said.

HBR can wait.
1. we don't have horses connected.
2. we have no city available to produce horses...
3. it will take another 30-40 turns before we can even build our first horse.
4. fast expansion is more important.
So start pumping settlers/warriors out of Rome
and Veii to start building second granary once it finishes warrior (or it can actually produce a settler first and then start on granary)

 

[dmanakho]

@ dman, could you put a T in your line and run it up to Virginia for me? The loss over the line would probably be too great though..

Sure, but that will cost you more. All this copper to pay for, you know.

Originally Posted by me
On the dot-map, pink 1st then yellow then burgundy. unless that is a horse 1 W of burgundy then go there after pink to keep it from Russia.

This actually makes sence. It doesn't feel like somebody is going to claim land east from us betwean rome and ocean. But russian will certainly try to get empty land south from Rostov. So i am having second thought and suggest pink then yellow then burgundy... But if situation changes player will have to make a decision accordingly.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Gotta turn you'ins on to the History Channel.

Rome was a successful empire due to its road network. They had the ability to move troops further and faster than the competition.

I agree workers are good. I almost never use slaves to do anything but road because they're too slow.

Presuming we get D-man's 2 slaves, start them roading to where we want future cities. we'll need a military unit to sit on them cause of the barbs.

I'm fine with going to Rep. asap, but if the AI's were closer, I'd argue for Monarchy for extended warfare. We had this discussion the other night. Go for Rep.

 

[Tubby Rower]

This actually makes sence.

Alright I got one right

I'm compiling a recommended list for Mach (he's up next) & here's what I got so far

• Buy the 2 wokers from china
• build settler in Veii after warrior finishes then start granary
• build settler in Rome after granary then warrior
• keep an eye on happiness
• use MapStat
• every turn check to see if anyone has writing. If so buy it then trade it around
• After writing comes in -> Philosophy @ 100% unless lux needs to be raised
• settle on pink dot with first settler and connect those dyes ASAP
• Settle on burgundy dot with next settler. After that go blue or even up by the sugar in the north
• build barracks in new cities

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

@ Tubby - yellow after pink is cool. I just want to connect the dyes to keep the lux slider reasonable.

This is somewhat heretical. It really doesn't matter where you build as long as you don't waste tiles. this is only true at emperor or below. of course if you're intelligent about the placement it helps alot. the AI is so stupid about city placement that you can expand into their gaps well into the middle ages. See threads about settler tunnelling.

Don't underestimate the stacked archer defensive bombard at this stage. I've had an archer and a warrior hold off 5+ horses in a Monarch game.

 

[Tubby Rower]

@ A-K I watch the History channel more and more these days I must be getting old @ 28

Well I have to head to bed. My wife doesn't seem to mind me doing this for a little while but if I stay up all night talking to you guys instead of sitting on the couch with her, she might break my civ cd. She's mentioned it in jest before but I don't want to push it....

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

@ tubby - good list

@ lurkers - am I making sense or just being my usual idiot self?

Here's another of the wall thought - how bout a worker pump and a settler pump?

 

[dmanakho]

[*]build settler in Rome after granary then warrior

Warrior then settler after granary.. We will need escort and MP while rome is growing so warrior goes 1st.

@ lurkers - am I making sense or just being my usual idiot self?

Here's another of the wall thought - how bout a worker pump and a settler pump?

1. You do make sense
2. Veii and Rome can be combined settler/worker pump depending in current needs of our economy we can pull a settler or a worker... have got to be flexible these days.
3. i am off for today as well... tired...

 

[Mach]

Man, I gotta get used to the pace you guys post at! Twice tonight I thought about commenting...and then didn't because it would have been a bad x-post...

Thanks for the list, tub. I was watching you guys talk and was keeping my own list, and it looked pretty similar. The only thing I would add is if someone demands writing, say no.

Question: what should I do with the workers? We have two working at Veii, and we'll have one plus the two slaves working at Rome. With the Rome workers: I would road/mine the bg s of Rome, then road the horses, then start roading up past green dot to pink dot. With the Veii workers: once they're done with Veii, they can go work yellow dot.

Anyways, I got it, will play tomorrow evening.

 

[eldar]

Another novella to catch up on first thing in the morning...!!

 

[dmanakho]

The only thing I would add is if someone demands writing, say no.

Only if you feel safe there are no scouting hordes of AI troops near our towns.

Question: what should I do with the workers? We have two working at Veii, and we'll have one plus the two slaves working at Rome. With the Rome workers: I would road/mine the bg s of Rome, then road the horses, then start roading up past green dot to pink dot. With the Veii workers: once they're done with Veii, they can go work yellow dot.
Anyways, I got it, will play tomorrow evening.

Road two forests north of Veii, will use those for shields. When settler is built send a worker along (or 2 slaves) to improve around new city. Escort workers with military... It felt like we have raging barbs in this game.