Proposal for a new city location: Aim: Create a single city front with Kaz, limit Kaz expansion, allowing TKY to grow to its' full potential, 4 extra forests for 2 extra workers. Cost: Variable, minimum 2 forests in TKY, either settler out of CK (city t112) or [3 forests in TKY (city t111) and delay in hooking the corn] Military plan: wipe out both Kaz axes on t107, and immediately cover both hills with axe/spear pairs, using 4 workers (1 choped from TKY is mandatory), to road to the axes to Kaz never see it coming. Leaves 2 axes, archer, sentry chariot for other operations, plus LB from CK to defend DT. There are 2 separate worker plans that are used depending on where teh settler comes from; surficed to say I will post them later in the form of a possible NCDP update in this thread (just the relevent changes). Spoiler : Memphus says (15:59): well you didn't miss much how much time for MS on the clock? Krill says (15:59): less than 2 hours Memphus says (16:00): cool wonder how long kaz will take. i hope they don't move spears in behind those axes Krill says (16:00): *shrug* Krill says (16:01): not much we can do about that Memphus says (16:01): no but could we dislog them then? or woudl we just drop the city with the units there? Krill says (16:01): in theory Krill says (16:02): you know how we suprise kaz with the charfiots so they nevert see them coming? Memphus says (16:02): yeah Krill says (16:02): Well Memphus says (16:02): that is really cool btw borders on genius play i am sure they will say we chated *cheated Krill says (16:02): will be funny if they do Memphus says (16:02): ill take lots of screenshots. Krill says (16:03): We need an extra worker to pull this off, but... Memphus says (16:03): you going to post a map with the moves? (do you need a screenshot) Krill says (16:03): Still working out all of the options Krill says (16:04): can use the current one of that land Memphus says (16:04): are you trying the plant the city the sae turn too? so they don't even know we dropped one? Krill says (16:04): yup wipe them out move units to cover Krill says (16:05): and move the settler onto the city site all on t107 turn before the attack, move a mini stack of axes and spears so that they are 2 tiles from both axes Memphus says (16:05): hat is pretty slick Krill says (16:05): there is a road above them need 4 workers for thisd, so t107 Krill says (16:06): road the tile the mini stack is on then road the tile SE of the ministack http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/team_epsilon/Civ4ScreenShot0187.jpg both combat chariots kill the axes and 1 axe/1spear moves to cover both chariots the settler and longbow moves onto the city tile Memphus says (16:07): can they settle the city? it is on a forest Krill says (16:07): yeah have to settle t108 Memphus says (16:07): ok cool Krill says (16:07): We can use zuurstof to protect the settler so maybe only need an archer Memphus says (16:07): btw is this taking into account serdom? Krill says (16:07): can upgrade t108 if need be yes Memphus says (16:08): as in the 3 workers at TKY move next turn then have a 2 turn chop? Krill says (16:08): taking into account serfodom on t1034 t104 sorry yes I think we can revolt on t104 and not t103 because: don;t need it in the west in the south pasturing the pigs only needs serfdom for 2 turns Memphus says (16:08): gives us 1 mroe turn for bureau... Krill says (16:08): east all workers are chopping ronnie is moving Krill says (16:09): don;t need it for hte mining worker, and the chopping worker can just move S and chop so all the worker moves are fine Memphus says (16:09): yup Krill says (16:09): don;t need serfdom next turn. The problem I see... Krill says (16:10): we are going to be left with an axe and a sentry chariot to defend TKY atleast Memphus says (16:10): when does the current LB from CK get there? Krill says (16:10): not in time that lb can defend DT though Memphus says (16:10): will TKY borders have poped? Krill says (16:11): no well they don;t have to we have lots of visibility now we can probably get by with leaving the archer between wheat and TKY Memphus says (16:11): . .. .. .. . so we will have 1 spear axe and chariot on each hill then? Krill says (16:11): because if we take the eastern hill we have visibility on anything that can attack the settler yes Memphus says (16:12): cool Krill says (16:12): need to find a worker from somwhere though Memphus says (16:12): kinda wnat the sentry chariot down there too though can the worker coem from CK in time? Krill says (16:12): no Memphus says (16:12): chop in TKY before Settler? Krill says (16:12): delays settler Memphus says (16:12): make the workers more efficient? Krill says (16:13): not without showing a worker to Kaz Memphus says (16:14): hmmm what if we came from the east? Krill says (16:15): takes longer Memphus says (16:15): . .. .. .. . Krill says (16:15): need more roads Krill says (16:18): OK I don't think we can do it that way... but we can sneak the sentry chariot behind that forest adjacent to the western axe Krill says (16:19): so we can check for units Memphus says (16:21): so have it go from TKY to where waterstof is then SE S Krill says (16:21): depends if we want to reveal to Cav we have a sentry chariot Memphus says (16:22): they can't see that unit... well unless the have units. but then he is vulnerable to a chariot attack or would he be able to see anyone when he went SE Krill says (16:24): Cav can see waterstof Memphus says (16:24): right Krill says (16:24): so Cav can see a chariot on waterstofs tile Memphus says (16:24): sorry thought yo usaid kaz. Krill says (16:24): Cav can just tell Kaz that snippet of info np Memphus says (16:24): yeah i don't care if cav see that Krill says (16:27): ok Memphus says (16:28): because if they have no units behind the axes then we don't need the spear and axe to move onto the hill Krill says (16:28): We need to defend those tiles so Kaz don;t try to choke us atleast until we have the wheat improved Memphus says (16:30): yeah hmmm Krill says (16:31): I can get it all done by t109 with the axes dead and the settler moved onto the tile Memphus says (16:31): that gives them alot of time for more units Krill says (16:31): yeah 2 extra turns Memphus says (16:31): what is wrong with the 107? what if we settle the city later, say 109 Krill says (16:31): possible loss of 2 chariots. That's about it Memphus says (16:32): but kill the axes sooner Krill says (16:32): can do that easy Memphus says (16:32): as in chop out worker first that leets current LB from CK make it there too. and it gives us a "push" on Kaz which might make them want peace Krill says (16:33): can kill them t107 Memphus says (16:34): Krill says (16:34): thanks Memphus says (16:34): Krill says (16:35): city down t111 Memphus says (16:35): hmmm Memphus says (16:36): so for 2 turns sooner of an attack we lose 2 turns on the city placement Krill says (16:36): welll look at getting hte settler out of CK... if that's the timescale can get city down t112 Krill says (16:37): meeans that we have to make do with less military though so if we take losses we are between a rock and a hard place Memphus says (16:37): but lets our forest chops go into infrastructure at TKY Krill says (16:37): yeah Memphus says (16:37): risky. Krill says (16:37): unless we need the units in which case we lose a promo Memphus says (16:37): i like it!!!! no risk no reward! Krill says (16:38): Remeber Waterstof Memphus says (16:38): the 50%? Krill says (16:38): yes Memphus says (16:38): that worked out! crippled kaz Krill says (16:38): this might not Memphus says (16:38): haha Krill says (16:38): we need to keep an eye on Kazs power Memphus says (16:38): i wouldn't say it is 50-50[color] Spoiler : My view is that we should try for the city; we want to take out the axes no matter what, so Kaz don't know what we are doing. NB. It is possible to kill both Kaz axes and abandon both chariots, leaving the axes and settlers directly north of the chariots, AND get the city settled on t108. That's risky, but it means we don't chop out the 4th worker, instead going straight to the settler. We're 1 worker turn short of getting that to work out though.