Trojan Horse: Ninja Style

[Krill]

Proposal for a new city location:



Aim: Create a single city front with Kaz, limit Kaz expansion, allowing TKY to grow to its' full potential, 4 extra forests for 2 extra workers.

Cost: Variable, minimum 2 forests in TKY, either settler out of CK (city t112) or [3 forests in TKY (city t111) and delay in hooking the corn]

Military plan: wipe out both Kaz axes on t107, and immediately cover both hills with axe/spear pairs, using 4 workers (1 choped from TKY is mandatory), to road to the axes to Kaz never see it coming. Leaves 2 axes, archer, sentry chariot for other operations, plus LB from CK to defend DT.

There are 2 separate worker plans that are used depending on where teh settler comes from; surficed to say I will post them later in the form of a possible NCDP update in this thread (just the relevent changes).

Spoiler :

Memphus says (15:59):
well you didn't miss much
how much time for MS on the clock?
Krill says (15:59):
less than 2 hours
Memphus says (16:00):
cool
wonder how long kaz will take.
i hope they don't move spears in behind those axes
Krill says (16:00):
*shrug*
Krill says (16:01):
not much we can do about that
Memphus says (16:01):
no
but could we dislog them then?
or woudl we just drop the city with the units there?
Krill says (16:01):
in theory
Krill says (16:02):
you know how we suprise kaz with the charfiots so they nevert see them coming?
Memphus says (16:02):
yeah
Krill says (16:02):
Well
Memphus says (16:02):
that is really cool btw
borders on genius play
i am sure they will say we chated
*cheated
Krill says (16:02):
will be funny
if they do
Memphus says (16:02):
ill take lots of screenshots.
Krill says (16:03):
We need an extra worker to pull this off, but...
Memphus says (16:03):
you going to post a map with the moves?
(do you need a screenshot)
Krill says (16:03):
Still working out all of the options
Krill says (16:04):
can use the current one of that land
Memphus says (16:04):
are you trying the plant the city the sae turn too? so they don't even know we dropped one?
Krill says (16:04):
yup
wipe them out
move units to cover
Krill says (16:05):
and move the settler onto the city site
all on t107
turn before the attack, move a mini stack of axes and spears so that they are 2 tiles from both axes
Memphus says (16:05):
hat is pretty slick
Krill says (16:05):
there is a road above them
need 4 workers for thisd, so t107
Krill says (16:06):
road the tile the mini stack is on
then road the tile SE of the ministack
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/team_epsilon/Civ4ScreenShot0187.jpg
both combat chariots kill the axes
and 1 axe/1spear moves to cover both chariots
the settler and longbow moves onto the city tile
Memphus says (16:07):
can they settle the city? it is on a forest
Krill says (16:07):
yeah
have to settle t108
Memphus says (16:07):
ok cool
Krill says (16:07):
We can use zuurstof to protect the settler
so maybe only need an archer
Memphus says (16:07):
btw is this taking into account serdom?
Krill says (16:07):
can upgrade t108 if need be
yes
Memphus says (16:08):
as in the 3 workers at TKY move next turn then have a 2 turn chop?
Krill says (16:08):
taking into account serfodom on t1034
t104 sorry
yes
I think we can revolt on t104
and not t103
because:
don;t need it in the west
in the south pasturing the pigs only needs serfdom for 2 turns
Memphus says (16:08):
gives us 1 mroe turn for bureau...
Krill says (16:08):
east all workers are chopping
ronnie is moving
Krill says (16:09):
don;t need it for hte mining worker,
and the chopping worker can just move S and chop
so all the worker moves are fine
Memphus says (16:09):
yup
Krill says (16:09):
don;t need serfdom next turn.
The problem I see...
Krill says (16:10):
we are going to be left with an axe and a sentry chariot to defend TKY
atleast
Memphus says (16:10):
when does the current LB from CK get there?
Krill says (16:10):
not in time
that lb can defend DT though
Memphus says (16:10):
will TKY borders have poped?
Krill says (16:11):
no
well
they don;t have to
we have lots of visibility now
we can probably get by with leaving the archer between wheat and TKY
Memphus says (16:11):
. .. .. .. . so we will have 1 spear axe and chariot on each hill then?
Krill says (16:11):
because if we take the eastern hill we have visibility on anything that can attack the settler
yes
Memphus says (16:12):
cool
Krill says (16:12):
need to find a worker from somwhere though
Memphus says (16:12):
kinda wnat the sentry chariot down there too though
can the worker coem from CK in time?
Krill says (16:12):
no
Memphus says (16:12):
chop in TKY before Settler?
Krill says (16:12):
delays settler
Memphus says (16:12):
make the workers more efficient?
Krill says (16:13):
not without showing a worker to Kaz
Memphus says (16:14):
hmmm
what if we came from the east?
Krill says (16:15):
takes longer
Memphus says (16:15):
. .. .. .. .
Krill says (16:15):
need more roads
Krill says (16:18):
OK
I don't think we can do it that way...
but we can sneak the sentry chariot behind that forest adjacent to the western axe
Krill says (16:19):
so we can check for units
Memphus says (16:21):
so have it go from TKY to where waterstof is
then SE S
Krill says (16:21):
depends if we want to reveal to Cav we have a sentry chariot
Memphus says (16:22):
they can't see that unit...
well unless the have units.
but then he is vulnerable to a chariot attack
or would he be able to see anyone when he went SE
Krill says (16:24):
Cav can see waterstof
Memphus says (16:24):
right
Krill says (16:24):
so Cav can see a chariot on waterstofs tile
Memphus says (16:24):
sorry thought yo usaid kaz.
Krill says (16:24):
Cav can just tell Kaz that snippet of info
np
Memphus says (16:24):
yeah i don't care if cav see that
Krill says (16:27):
ok
Memphus says (16:28):
because if they have no units behind the axes then we don't need the spear and axe to move onto the hill
Krill says (16:28):
We need to defend those tiles so Kaz don;t try to choke us
atleast until we have the wheat improved
Memphus says (16:30):
yeah hmmm
Krill says (16:31):
I can get it all done by t109
with the axes dead and the settler moved onto the tile
Memphus says (16:31):
that gives them alot of time for more units
Krill says (16:31):
yeah
2 extra turns
Memphus says (16:31):
what is wrong with the 107?
what if we settle the city later, say 109
Krill says (16:31):
possible loss of 2 chariots. That's about it
Memphus says (16:32):
but kill the axes sooner
Krill says (16:32):
can do that easy
Memphus says (16:32):
as in chop out worker first
that leets current LB from CK make it there too.
and it gives us a "push" on Kaz which might make them want peace
Krill says (16:33):
can kill them t107
Memphus says (16:34):

Krill says (16:34):
thanks
Memphus says (16:34):

Krill says (16:35):
city down t111
Memphus says (16:35):
hmmm
Memphus says (16:36):
so for 2 turns sooner of an attack we lose 2 turns on the city placement
Krill says (16:36):
welll
look at getting hte settler out of CK...
if that's the timescale
can get city down t112
Krill says (16:37):
meeans that we have to make do with less military though
so if we take losses we are between a rock and a hard place
Memphus says (16:37):
but lets our forest chops go into infrastructure at TKY
Krill says (16:37):
yeah
Memphus says (16:37):
risky.
Krill says (16:37):
unless we need the units
in which case we lose a promo
Memphus says (16:37):
i like it!!!!
no risk no reward!
Krill says (16:38):
Remeber Waterstof
Memphus says (16:38):
the 50%?
Krill says (16:38):
yes
Memphus says (16:38):
that worked out!
crippled kaz
Krill says (16:38):
this might not
Memphus says (16:38):
haha
Krill says (16:38):
we need to keep an eye on Kazs power
Memphus says (16:38):
i wouldn't say it is 50-50[color]

Spoiler :

My view is that we should try for the city; we want to take out the axes no matter what, so Kaz don't know what we are doing.

NB. It is possible to kill both Kaz axes and abandon both chariots, leaving the axes and settlers directly north of the chariots, AND get the city settled on t108. That's risky, but it means we don't chop out the 4th worker, instead going straight to the settler. We're 1 worker turn short of getting that to work out though.

 

[Strow]

I like the idea of this single city front and creating more growth for TKY. Do we have enough military to take out those axes on the hills?

 

[Dreylin]

So if we attack the Axes early with no backup, we not only risk losing the Chariots to any unseen Kaz units, but we'd just lose the Hills again, right? Seems to me like we should do this right and attack with sufficient force to minimse the chance of losing units and secure the hills - even if only for the turn we need to get the new city in place. If we sacrifice an extra forest or two to that plan, it still lets TKY concentrate on infrastructure potentially earlier than if we have to defend a two-city front for longer.

 

[Memphus]

Yeah Basically here are the options:

1. Do Nothing Fight Kaz from TKY and DT.

2. Press With Chariots (risking them) But get City on T108

3. Press with Chariots & Backup (via Workers) So that After we have on each hill:
1 Wounded Chariot, 1 Axe, 1 Spear
This However Means the city can't be dropped until ~T111

I know I want to Do option 3.

 

[Krill]

No matter what we can attack the axes on t107, and take the hills with the axe/spear stacks; that much I think is a no brainer. The main question is a) do we want teh city and b) if so, where do we get the settler. CK and less military units, or TKY and less forests to chop.

PS for Dreylin. End of Session formal was boring. the Librarian (Tim Fowler in case you knew him) got honourary Full Colours.

 

[Ronnie1]

I REALLY like option 3!

It forces Kaz to concede defeat in this war, because it makes a counter attack nearly impossible to pull off.

 

[Dreylin]

No matter what we can attack the axes on t107, and take the hills with the axe/spear stacks; that much I think is a no brainer. The main question is a) do we want teh city and b) if so, where do we get the settler. CK and less military units, or TKY and less forests to chop.

Well I say b) TKY

PS for Dreylin. End of Session formal was boring. the Librarian (Tim Fowler in case you knew him) got honourary Full Colours.

Nope, he started after my time there ... not that I think I knew the College Librarian when I was there. Though that does bring back memories of being the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Society Head Librarian; they're not as tollerant of scratching yourself in the Reference Section in my current job.

 

[Krill]

Well I say b) TKY

Why? (I'm still thinking about it...)

Nope, he started after my time there ... not that I think I knew the College Librarian when I was there. Though that does bring back memories of being the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Society Head Librarian; they're not as tollerant of scratching yourself in the Reference Section in my current job.

Hahaha.

 

[Dreylin]

Why? (I'm still thinking about it...)

Two reasons:

Speed - imo even a turn will make a difference.

Military - If CK builds the Settler, TKY is going to be on Infra not Military; but going for this city site it is an offensive move against Kaz, and likely to provoke a response. We need to be ready for that response.

 

[Krill]

Point: are we going to be pressing and further south though? The units that CK can build are: LB, chariots, swords, axes, spears, archers. Arguably only longbows and spears are worth building until we can build HA/cats/eles ourselves. The settler is worth 2 LB, the first would get into the city t112, the second t114. If Kaz push us and try to attack with cats/HA how should we defend?

 

[mostly-harmless]

Have we any agreement with Cav in place that prevents us to settle further south? Can't remember, just thought I read it somewhere.

mh

 

[Memphus]

That is the risk. (Less military if CK builds the settler. )No Risk no reward. (See My chat with Krill) We have to take above average risks (waterstof anyone) Because it is a 3 v 2. So to me anything that has a 40% chance of working we go for.

The Reward? Why we wanted TKY (and DT) in the first place. It is a gold mine city. The faster it gets up to speed the Sooner we arn't relying on our core for troops in that area. Right now The Western "colony" (TKY, DT and proposed city) needs to be supported from the core. The sooner they support themselves the better we are.

Less military if CK builds the settler. But long term it pays off in that those cities start contributing to the empire instead of draining.

My Plan would be this Push Kaz back again and get this city with a Settler from CK. Then get peace. We can't hit their core with the unit completement we have.

My bet is they are building a settler to try and block us. So killing the axes is critical. the slower settler also gives us more time to asses the layof the land down there, and possibly change the city site.

Worst Case Scenairo (Kaz actually get into the war) and the chop in TKY go to units. Yes we lose the promo from CK, but we gain on travel time. That is the risk. One we should take.

 

[Memphus]

Have we any agreement with Cav in place that prevents us to settle further south? Can't remember, just thought I read it somewhere.

mh

We (I) I have stated in chats that if Cav left Kaz deals (which they didn't) that we would commit to not settling any further SW (into thier area)

Notice the "SW" part is key because we do plan on settling west. Just not "SW"

*We (I) also said had kaz just given us Angle (TKY) that we would of stopped expanding South into thier land. But that never happened

 

[Dreylin]

True, and Kaz also elected not to accept the Peace offer which we made (not surprisingly), but also not to propose one of their own, which is perhaps more surprising.

 

[Krill]

Look at it from Kaz' perspective; they have CS and MC, so are 1 tech from maces, and we don't have HBR or construction, so are roughly 900 beakers from war eles which we need to compete. They probably think they can build a large enough stack to take back TKY...which is where the Wheat city comes into play.

 

[Strow]

Im for the city and the sooner the better but Ill leave the risk up to the pros here. Sooner or later we will poke them too much and they will come with some for of "stack" against us.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I like the idea of killing the axes, but it's hard for me to believe that they will leave 2 axes hanging out vulnerable to chariots for too long. So we'll see what the situation is in 5 turns.

 

[Krill]

(Pics from Memphus)



AT: sure, they could cover with spears. Nothing we can do about that apart from trying to kill the axes before they cover.

 

[Krill]

OK, new method of doing it. Gives Kaz 1 extra turn to get defenses in place, and shows them the settler; it still hides the chariots and workers, but gets the city settled t108 and the hills taken t108.

Spoiler :

Krill says (01:38):
oh wow
when you get back, I think I have a humdinger of an idea, if we are ballsy
Krill says (01:40):
We can show them the settler moving up on t108
well
t107
plant the city
use the road that it provides
Krill says (01:41):
move 2 workers through to road - back to normal
that's risky
Krill says (01:48):
BTW
if we pull this off
I really want to tell Kazthat they should have taken teh path of Daylight
Memphus says (01:53):
haha yup
that will be the email
i love the idea of showing them the settler
then on the enxt turn running workers through and smahing them with chariots
Krill says (01:54):
Don;t actually need to get out the fourth worker then
Memphus says (01:54):
. .. .. .. .!
that is sick
ok that is the plan
Krill says (01:55):
so, settle t108
kill t108
need to get teh chariots healed up asap
need to finish roading with the worker on the hill
and move 1 worker to the forest NE of TKY and one SE of TKY
Krill says (01:56):
t104 chop*3
t105 chop*3
t106 move 2 workers SE of the deforested hill
along with the settler and defensive units
third worker irrigates the corn
Krill says (01:57):
t107 road with 2 workers, move settler, defensive units and the axe/spear stacks onto the future city tile
t108 road the tiles needed, smash, take hte hills
move up sentry chariot as required

Basically, chop the settler out of TKY.

t106, move the settler, city defenses and the axe/spear stack and 2 workers onto the tile E SE of TKY.

t107, road with 2 workers, move the chariots onto the workers, move the defense and axe/spears onto the future city tile.

t108, settle the city, move the workers onto the required tile, road, kill the axes with the chariots, move the axes/spears onto the hills/chariots et voilá, hills are ours 1 turns later but hte city is down way sooner, and the corn is hooked t108 as well.

Basic trade is we show Kaz that we are about to make a city, but keep the fact we are about to wipe out their units hidden. Smoke and mirrors...because there is no way they can play through zuurstof on a forest, as well as 2 extra axes and spears as well as an archer (could be longbow).

 

[Memphus]

This is genius in the making. On so many levels!