Troops of dead AI

[Mewtarthio]

It should mostly depend on your culture ratio. If they are "in awe of" your culture, most of the units should convert/disband (there would still be a few doggedly loyal troops, though, that refused to consider themselves beaten). If they are "disdainful of" your culture, they continue with guerrilla warfare.

 

[Pariah]

Mewtarthio is right, that they should either convert or continue their resistance dependent on cultural attitude toward their conquerers. But, as others have said, such orpahned units should be automatically reduced in health (unless they are partisans to begin with) and denied any chance to recover from damage. This reflects the fact that they are cut off from all support.

Having them remain active under their own toppled flag leaves the possibility of them recapturing a city or two, and resurrecting a dead civ. I think this idea is acceptable to most of us: after all, didn't France effectively cease to exist as a nation, during the years under German occupation? Of course, this might also happen if a large empire breaks up during government change, as several threads have suggested.

If you want to keep it simple - perhaps orphaned units of a defeated nation may be recruited by any other nation with which they were not previously at war. This is perhaps more realistic than joining a former enemy, especially the one which actually conquered their homes.

They would only become barbarians if there are no neutral/friendly nations available for them to join.

 

[Dreadnought]

I agree with Pariah...why join an enemy who had just destroyed their homes?

However, if the government of the conquered country was particulary bad, the defeated units might call their conquerers liberators...

 

[PeteAtoms]

I think they should be turned into Barbarian status like they do in the game Lords of Magic, they still have the hostility to the enemy who destroyed their civ and would attak that civ first, or they could form a totally new rogue state like The Republic of China.

 

[sir_schwick]

For this model, the culture quantity of the conquereing and conquered civ in the unit's home city is important, not neccessarily overall.

Ratio is Attacker - Vanquished
>1 - Unit joins resistance.
<1 - Unit goes home(disbands).

Only Geurilla type units would be able to heal like normal. All other units could only heal at 'base camps' or in allied cities. Resistors would also try to join the resistance as the highest level Geurilla. XP remains the same.

 

[Captain]

Yes I like the idea that the troops stick around to be finished off.

 

[sir_schwick]

Also, if a country surrenders to you, armies far away from the central government may still take the fight on.

 

[Pariah]

Also, if a country surrenders to you, armies far away from the central government may still take the fight on.

A bit like the various Japanese die-hards who refused to surrender after WWII?

Troops of a dead AI carrying on in some respect might be acceptable - but if a nation simply makes peace and undergoes government change, rather than being conquered, its units should not turn renegade and keep fighting. There would be no end to violence in that event.

 

[sir_schwick]

Troops of a dead AI carrying on in some respect might be acceptable - but if a nation simply makes peace and undergoes government change, rather than being conquered, its units should not turn renegade and keep fighting. There would be no end to violence in that event.

Actually this would be really fascinating, if units attack each other, civs could claim they were rebels. Many wars were started by misunderstanding between troops on opposite sides. Rebels would definitely attack loyalist troops, although it would look like units of the same civ were fighitng each other. Intelligence and spies would let you know who was a renegade and who was government troops.

 

[Elgalad]

Are we forgetting the fact that all of the Roman Auxiliaries were formed from citizens of conquered nations? Most of the Roman cavalry, archers, and irregular infantry came from these, and in many cases were some of the finest warriors of their era. I would like to see military units from a conquered nation go in several directions (barbarism/banditry/piracy, resistance/guerilla warfare, fleeing to a former ally) but those should also include conscription into the conqueror's military forces. There is no realistic reason as well, that they should not retain their complete military strength and experience at the moment they were conscripted. They might not be upgradable when new techs come along, but otherwise, they should retain their abilities (including captured UU's!)

-Elgalad

 

[douche_bag]

yea...what he said

this is the single most perfect response ever! and yes i like the idea. . .what he said. . .

 

[sir_schwick]

well stated

 

[Dreadnought]

@douche: lol

anyway, just for the record, maybe they could join you but you have to pay them, like they were mercenaries. Just a thought (hey, never knew I could think! )

 

[Vizard]

Mercenaries should be hard to code, I believe the barbarians options is the best, but at a reduced rate, anyways I'd like to se a rogue submarine carring a nuclear weapon
They don't have to be specific enemies of the civilization who destroyed them, since any troop without a strong leadership don't care sides, just steals and destroys anything in front of them. Including his former companions.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I like these ideas, especially the resistance idea. I think it's stupid that the troops just vanish. I for one try to COMPLETELY wipe a civ off the plannet when I conquer them. But it troubles me to think the disapeered troops weren't completely destroyed by an army, or vthe innocent civillian workers that were just one turn away from capture before enemy civs destroyed their empire.

I myself would like the enemy troops to still carry on the fight, with no particular leader until they win back a city, and with the (very low) chance of capturing an enemy veichle/ship. They would only be able to have techs giffted to them, and would still be able to innitate diplomacey, just with no particular named leader.

 

[Ramalhão]

1. They unit disappears, as if the troops dropped their weapons and went home (maybe increase nearest city by 1 pop for each 5 units).
2. They could go kamikaze and attack the nearest city in an attempt to reclaim their tribe. (more likely for a militaristic AI)
3. They could join the victors army as conscript units.
4. They could convert to barbarian status, they would retain their type (infantry, cavalry...) but become barbarians. Ships would become pirates/privateers.
5. They could choose to join a neighbor AI as conscripts

Good ideas. I think 2nd option is better. It remembers me Heroes of Might and Magic: if you lost the last castle, you have a week (7 turns) to try to get a new castle, when the time is gone, you lose . In Civ serie, it could be until the last unit is gone. Jews existed all the time without a territory until they got Israel.

All options are nice and could be options in Civ4editor, so each creator could use the option which is better for each scenario. Of course, including the option to vanish all units when last city is gone.

 

[Grohan]

I think that UUs should keep fighting against the enemy civ because they are more devoted to their civ. They are the elite troops of that civ who never give up.

 

[searcheagle]

I like many of the options that were proposed however, here is the model I would like to see.

All leftover units, except standard air units (Aka, not VTOL or helicopters) would be converted into Mercenaries. These mercenaries would either:

1. Join another civ and work for them under a contract. of course, they could break this contract if they feel you are being unreasonable. They could join any nation, including ones that they were waging war AGAINST. If they joined an enemy, it would probably require a higher cost. This would include techs that were out of reach for the civ that acquires them. It would require higher maintaince costs "since you dont know how to maintain them." There should also be a permanent agreement where they join the civ permenatly.

2. No one puts them under contract, so they support themselves by looting cities, trade routes, and the such. If they capture a city, they can keep it and either re-start thier original civ, sell it to another civ, or start up their own individual, unique civ.

 

[Crazy Eskimo]

I like the idea of enemy troops not always disappearing. I think the barbarian/pirate/guerilla option is a good one. If they become your units, they should definitely be demoted to show lack of morale (they would be THE definition of conscripts).

Overall, good idea!

 

[Superkrest]

why not make the newly disbanded , once proud army, fight for there idendity lost at your hand. freedom fighters or partisans . bent on eliminating you from there motherland. they new partisan army could incite revolt and really cramp up your occuping army...after a while if they havent been inihilated there cuase either...based on action against or in -action....fissles out as the populace loses patiens or gathers recuites from non assymulated cities or takes the city(s) themself