[BTS] Trying to beat Deity! (Sitting Bull shadow game)

[dfg26]

Hello everybody! This is my first time doing a forum game, tell me if I'm doing it wrong I've had some previous failed games on deity, this time I really try to consider my each move carefully.

I've chosen Sitting Bull as a leader - I really like PHI, and the fact that I can get barb defense without any hassle.

Map settings: Fractal, standard size, normal speed, no huts, no events.

The start:

Spoiler :

Decent looking start on the first roll. I don't see a reason to move the settler at this point. I'm debating whether to move my warrior to NW or SW. Somehow my hunch tells me there might be tundra in the north so I move him to SW.

Settled:

Spoiler :

Moving the warrior reveals another corn, decide to settle in place. My hunch about the tundra was right

First 15 turns:

Spoiler :

T0: Worker first. Mining --> Bronze working seems like an obvious first tech choice. I decide to research the wheel first, so my worker doesn't run out of things to do, and I can start making a road to my second city. And I'm not in too much of a hurry to get to BW, since I don't need to reveal copper.

T2: Discover elephants SW of Cahokia. Might come in handy later.

T5: Border pop reveals silver to the north of Cahokia. Gonna go check out if there's any seafood next to it.



T9: We have fish next to the silver. I think I'll put my second city 4N1E from Cahokia.



T15: Well well, what have we here...


Marble, stone and a PHI leader. I think some wonder whoring could happen during this game I still haven't met anyone else, and I see a coastline. I begin to suspect I might be isolated. That would suck, especially since I haven't done any isolation games on deity. I hope this is some kind of sneaky continent instead, and the AI's just haven't reached me yet.

I start building a warrior after the worker. I want to grow to size 3 asap and start with a settler. Although I'm not in a terrible hurry, since the place doesn't look too crowded.

 

[Fippy]

Looks like a nice one, good food and happy resis are around too.
Stone in a bad place thou, not sure if it's worth settling there for Pyras..they can go early (T60+), and you will have a good happy cap already.
Certainly Literature thou, with marble and tons of forests

 

[Rusten]

T9: We have fish next to the silver. I think I'll put my second city 4N1E from Cahokia.

Never settle your 2nd city without a food resource. Here it's a big mistake.

Better is settling the river+cow and getting a wb there to be in place for settling a city 5N of capital later. Speeds up its development severely with coastal fish in 1st ring and instant food improvement. Chop granary on size 1 for maximum efficiency. The silver will be claimed by capital on 100 culture for you to work.

 

[Rusten]

T0: Worker first. Mining --> Bronze working seems like an obvious first tech choice. I decide to research the wheel first, so my worker doesn't run out of things to do, and I can start making a road to my second city. And I'm not in too much of a hurry to get to BW, since I don't need to reveal copper.

Doing something almost pointless is not much better than doing nothing at all. I'd rather the worker sit around for 2 turns than spend 10 turns making roads. I've not looked at the timings for when you finish BW, but teching wheel first "just to have something to do" is 100% wrong. Teching BW is not for copper, it's for whipping and chopping. Especially the latter. And delaying it for roads is not worth it.

 

[dfg26]

Good points. I'd still argue that the wheel decision isn't 100% horrible. I mean, I've got plenty of food to get out settlers and workers so I don't think chopping is my #1 priority. Or maybe it was a wrong decision, will see.

 

[Fippy]

Have to disagree with Rusten on wheel,
i might have teched it before BW too.

With no river connection in your cap, roads will be needed towards city #2,
and if those roads fit on forests they can also be used for faster chopping later.
"Pointless" is way too strongly said, very close between bw or wheel first.

 

[sampsa]

I mean, I've got plenty of food to get out settlers and workers so I don't think chopping is my #1 priority.

IMO the key of doing good on deity is the opposite of this mindset. You have to execute everything with maximum efficiency, as fast as possible. Chop dogs to protect you, then settlers for more cities. Roads are less important, but still are relatively important here since you have weak . This also makes the fish city a bit more urgent, maybe 3rd city. Definitely fish on 1st ring though, cap border pop will claim silver.

 

[6K Man]

I don’t understand why you're worried a Worker will be idle. You have to build it (the Worker), improve 2 Corn, and then build a mine… Bronze Working isn’t going to take that long to research.

 

[Fish Man]

Let's say BW takes 24 turns to reach, with oasis (probably less but oh well). You'll be just about done farming your second corn by the time it rolls around. I see no reason why I would delay chopping. Grow to size 3 and then whip/chop away settlers/workers.

 

[Fippy]

Why are you giving him such a hard time for this rather unimportant decision lol,
not like he will not have both when needed (starting with Agri and Oasis)..

The thought behind "if my worker would have to wait for BW, but could build ~2 roads before" seems 100% correct in my eyes for this start,
neither whipping before size 4 or sending a settler out with no roads or other support make more sense.

 

[sampsa]

Undefeatable whipping settlers at size 3 like a boss. Guess he means first settler size 3, then grow to whip. I guess I should have investigated the start more before making any comments but in general chopping sooner is much better than building roads. I'm not sure if I understand what the final part of Fippy's last sentence says though. Certainly a connection between 1st and 2nd city asap is good, but not a necessity.

 

[krikav]

Stone doesn't look tempting. I usually ignore such desert stones until it's time for oxford or kremlin.
Focus on the marble instead.
Some early marble gambit could be an option here imho. Chopping into ToAr with marble is very strong. You probably also have a 20% chance or so for the oracle too.
That would mean going through myst, and if so, I see no problem with settling close to the silver first and working silver while building monument.
Solves all commerce problems.

Did you use the "wait for 5 turns before commit to tech"-trick?

Mining should in all certainty have been the first tech imho. After that maybee TW, but probably not.
If you get city1 and 2 out fast, they might get a free connection (for example, 1N of silver and 1E of cow) and that would give the traderoutes between them.

 

[Fippy]

. I'm not sure if I understand what the final part of Fippy's last sentence says though. Certainly a connection between 1st and 2nd city asap is good, but not a necessity.

My opinion: i would rather have ~2 roads and BW a bit later, than my worker sitting around for a couple turns here.
Chops are good ofc, but so are roads in this posi and i see little gain in chopping for an earlier settler, if 1 of those turns gets lost while moving anyways (no road).

And yup i know it's not relevant if we start with Agri.

 

[dfg26]

I will have to take a break from the game because of studies. I can see that my choice of wheel first (and the planned placement of my second city) was quite controversial , so I think when I return I'll play the first 20-40 turns as I originally planned, and after that a second time based on your advice and compare the results. At least it will be a good learning experience.