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TSG55 After Action Report thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Game Of The Month' started by Hammer Rabbi, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. golem

    golem Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Praha, Czech rep.
    ,Game status: Domination Victory
    Game date: 1080AD
    Turns played: 168
    Base score: 1116
    Final score: 3381
    Time played: 3:57:00

    Nice easy game, really enjoyed it. I conquered my continent with two arnies of conquistadors, and than wait 12 turns for astronomy. My Armadas slept in shallow waters on east and west. Nice look.

    If I knew I do not need Astronomy, I would finish much sooner - but this way it was more fun..

    Thanks to staff, really nice game.
     
  2. glory7

    glory7 King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    Game: Civ5 GOTM 55
    Date submitted: 2013-02-18
    Reference number: 28357
    Your name: glory7
    Game status: Domination Victory
    Game date: 200BC
    Turns played: 107
    Base score: 693
    Final score: 3300
    Time played: 3:33:00
    Submitted save: Isabella_0107 BC-0200.Civ5Save
    Renamed file: glory7_C505501.Civ5Save

    Settled at the starting place.

    cap bo: scout - scout - monument - granary - GL - NC - trirme - oracle - units
    2nd city (kaliash) : granary bought - monument - library - archers
    3rd city (+10 gold): granary bought - monument - library bought - units

    sp: liberty open (t12 culture ruin) - worker - hammer - golden age - meritocracy - commerce open - commerce left 1 (t81) - liberty finish (with oracle) - commerce 2

    My first two ruins were map and barb camp locations. I didn't like it, but actually those were pretty good. The first map ruin led me to ethi cap and ruin above it, and after that barb ruin I went one tile up and found NW. I didn't expect to get 416 gold though. Why it isn't 500g? is it b/c of the lower diff level?

    fortunately, I met one CS and got money from ethi so that I could buy settler right away.

    1st scout went east to meet several CS and byz, and ocean. warrior went up and met india. right after I met india, worker came out! of course took all lump sum gold and the worker too.

    2nd scout guarded settler to the faith mt and continued to east and found +10 gold NW. with money from india and byz, I bought granary at 2nd city so that it went up to pop 2 in 3 turns - you want pop 2 asap so that you use that faith mountain and let the city grow at the same time. Another unexpected benefit was that I could rush buy settler from the 2nd city, which was much closer to +10 gold NW.

    Went for 3 city NC and hard built 3-4 archers at the 2nd city and holy warrior-ed 5-6. Got construction around t60 and upgraded all of them and went for killing in both direction: army #1 went from the 2nd city to delhi and siam cap, and army #2 went from cap to ethi cap and byz cap. It took like 15 turns I think. each army of 5 comps and 1-2 melee was more than enough to finish all of them.

    Beelined to edu. with CS quests, got several allies including culture one next to +10 gold NW, got policies really quick. t81 great admiral to scout. I only met sweden before astronomy though - austria and persia didn't expand so they were inland.

    Got edu at t87 (EDIT: t86) and bought 3 univs. spt was 112. at t92, with libery GS bulbing I got astro and army #1 went into ocean from NW of cap and army #2 went east from belgrade. liberty settler and one horseman went SW ocean of cap to find civ (eventually met persia there).

    arrrived at the other continent around t100, and rush bought units from the city near persia (4 tiles from the cap, liberty settler) and killed persia at t106. Meanwhile, main armies took sweden cap at t105 and austria t107. Could have saved 2 turns if I were more careful.

    religion choices were extremely helpful: one with nature, initiation rites, holy warriors, and enhanced later with religious community and missionary cost 30% less. I didn't expect the game to go more than t130 so church property/tithe was clearly worse than initiation rites. And holy warriors were more than half of my army. with +28 faith without any faith building, it was just crazy.

    I don't think sub 100 is possible for this map, even for tommynt.
     
  3. Maxym

    Maxym King

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    Canada
    I was waiting for your submission, I hope me adding inside a quoted text is not too confusing.....

    I don't think so either, the advantages of AI abuse get smaller and smaller as levels go down, it is only 15 turns between our games and I misplayed the beginning very badly. Very impressive still, 15 turns between astro and Finish. I missed out on not having my 2nd army in water.
     
  4. Wargizmo

    Wargizmo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Messages:
    193
    Location:
    Australia
    Well you're limited to how fast you can get astronomy. Even with unlimited money and no enemies it's very hard to get it before turn 100... then you've got to actually get over to the other continent.
     
  5. glory7

    glory7 King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    glad to hear that you were waiting for my submission (and report).

    From your screenshots, I see that your "west" army was like 3 turns late to swim west, but your report says that it was not a major problem. I also observe that you do not have a city near +10 gold NW.

    Not sure you went 2 cities or 3 cities from the screenshot, but if you got the 3rd city up near +10 gold NW you could have saved at least 5 turns - 20 gpt and 8 fpt from one tile is just crazy, and the river wheat is excellent for the initial growth. that's the luck part I think.

    I did all "AI abusing" techniques but AI gold production was so disappointing at this level. I think it saved 4-5 turns at least though. Without it, I could not get initial granary up in 2nd and 3rd cities. Also really lucky that I didn't have to produce/buy my own worker - starting from t17 (maybe 16... not sure) india worker stealing, I did 2,3 more worker stealing and barb camp captured settler-to-worker conversions.
     
  6. glory7

    glory7 King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    that's true. This gotm reminds me of gotm43, huns domination game, where tommynt killed all civs at t127 (immortal, continent). He did mp style fast libery 4-5 cities to tech up.

    Since there were decent spots for additional cities and happiness was not a problem at this map, maybe fast 4-5 cities (2 rush bought to claim NWs asap, 1 from liberty, 1 hard built) would give faster astro time. I think you send all your army at the astro time to conquer the other continent (with 1,2 settler and missionary) and built/cash buy/holy warrior units to finish off your continent AIs if needed.

    I will try a replay to test this out - hoping to get sub or close 100 finish.
     
  7. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,495
    Yeah, that's right, i suck ;)
    Last time i played warlord game i think was Civ3. I've been way to careful all the game long. Avoiding multi front wars and sending twice the amount of units required to capture any city. :rolleyes:

    This game was an opportunity to test 2 unusual situations :
    • You can be the worst "Warmongering menace to the world" history ever seen, it won't matter to civs who never heard what you did.
      I actually wiped completely all other civs on my contient before first contact with the other continent. Gustavus and Darius were friendly when i met them, and nobody had any red line. I've seen people complain that AIs will hate you for being a warmonger even when they don't know, it's wrong. Probably those AIs had contacts with other civs.
    • It's possible to raze a Holy City if it's not also a Capital. It's highly uncommon but it's possible. :lol:
     
  8. Maxym

    Maxym King

    Joined:
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    973
    Location:
    Canada
    I guess when it gets close to 100 turn finishes three or four turns late into the water is a major problem and one entirely of my lack of focus. I could have taken Delhi with archers instead of waiting in Siam to finish edu and then construction. That would have shaved off 4 turns needed.

    I should have taken initiation rites, again my miscalculation, I did not intend to spread my religion, thinking I will need to buy holy warriors and figured in 90 turns I will make more from the 2 gpt in cap.

    I didn't bother settling cerro but perhaps should have, put my 3rd city between cap and first NW one to get trade routes up.

    I think I had time for GLighthouse too, and that would save two or three turns too.

    I might give it another go when I need a relief from the quagmire of Deity challenge 7.
     
  9. dopingman

    dopingman Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Messages:
    202
    How were you guys so fast? Edit: Ah, I see, holy warrior spam ftw. And rush buy more
    I don't even bother submitting with 222 turns and a score of 4381...
     
  10. glory7

    glory7 King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    704

    I am not sure about GLH - doesn't it only help military naval units?

    I was thinking about another city to connect trade routes, but I thought for gpt only it was just not worth it. Did not have enough workers. For another science city, maybe I should have settled one more.
     
  11. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Gender:
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    Location:
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    Only helps naval units. Embarked land units do not appear to benefit (at least I saw no benefit after capturing the GLH). Not sure if the Commerce policy (Naval Tradition) is different (but, like GLH, it only references naval units).
     
  12. Unresolved

    Unresolved King

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    956
    Game: Civ5 GOTM 55
    Date submitted: 2013-02-19
    Reference number: 28368
    Your name: Unresolved
    Game status: Domination Victory
    Game date: 1010AD
    Turns played: 161
    Base score: 938
    Final score: 2931
    Time played: 2:34:00
    Submitted save: Isabella_0161 AD-1010.Civ5Save
    Renamed file: Unresolved_C505501.Civ5Save

    I conquered my whole continent by T100. But astronomy took so long and my units were sitting around doing nothing for awhile. I made some stupid research choices early on and didn't get NC up until T95 or so, which greatly delayed astronomy. Not much to say about this GoTM since it was pretty straightforward. Crossbows and Conquistadors pretty much steamrolled the second continent.
     
  13. caeru71

    caeru71 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    128
    Game status: Domination Victory
    Game date: 1725AD
    Turns played: 255
    Base score: 2158
    Final score: 4231
     
  14. Maxym

    Maxym King

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Canada
    I was wondering if AI can even win on Warlord except by time. They were so late to everything and without their bonuses it does not seem likely they could launch or build Utopia. Maybe diplo but even that I can't see unless they beeline a bit. Has anyone seen AI win on that level?
     
  15. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,380
    Probably. Just have to ask the newbies who are new to the game and get trounced on the lower difficulty levels! (Especially those who haven't played previous Civs).
     
  16. dthompson32

    dthompson32 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Florida
    Game: Civ5 GOTM 55
    Date submitted: 2013-02-20
    Reference number: 28374
    Your name: dthompson32
    Game status: Domination Victory
    Game date: 1330AD
    Turns played: 193
    Base score: 1222
    Final score: 3215
    Time played: 8:21:00

    I had the base continent wrapped up by turn 97. It took me almost 100 turns to get the tech to cross the ocean. I slowed down sailing while waiting for machinery so I would have crossbows when I invaded.

    Since I went west, it took longer than if I had gone east. I landed on the north coast of the other continent, fortunately there was a good bit of unsettled land just northwest of Vienna. After I took Vienna, I upgraded my longswords to Tericos and moved south to Stockholm. The terrain and lack of roads made moving north to south pretty difficult. Continuing my turn summary:

    Turn 167 Austria loses their capital after sailing my army across the ocean
    Turn 180 Sweden loses its capital to my Tercios and Conquistadors
    Turn 183 I get south and find that once I move through the marsh it is open desert to Persia's capital
    Turn 192 Persia falls to my Terico, despite slowing me down with the Great Wall

    - How many cities did you build and how many did you decide to acquire?

    I built my capital and two more cities, though I ended up not needing either of the additional cities. All the rest of my cities were taken from other Civs. My second and third cities were the Ethiopian and Byzantium capitals.

    - How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?

    Religion didn't come into play at all, other than my pantheon giving me a food bonus for camps. I was the only Civ to have spies, so they were not useful.

    - How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

    Not particularly well for them. I kept breaking deals and taking their capitals.

    - How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

    I was a lot more aggressive in taking cities and annexing them because I knew I had that huge happiness benefit.

    All in all a very fun game. It was hard passing up all those great locations to build cities while pushing to get to Astronomy. It might be fun to play this map and build a huge empire on the starting continent, then sail a modern fleet against the remaining Civs.
     
  17. dthompson32

    dthompson32 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Florida
    I love the detail that Glory7 is giving in his after action reports. I'm finding it very educational to replay following his path to see how how it works out and where I can improve.
     
  18. dthompson32

    dthompson32 Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Florida
    I did a replay of the game, same rules of no reload but obviously I had a huge advantage of knowing where everything was. I kept detailed notes throughout which are below if you are THAT bored right now. Things that I'm still having trouble with, I'm just not generating the science that others are getting. I think I'm not growing fast enough still.

    Not having libraries when I could start building the NC was a problem, I didn't have it finished until late and my science suffered, delaying Astronomy.

    I'm not getting something about cultural CSs, what policies are people getting to help them push their tech faster if Rationalism isn't open yet? I finished Liberty and managed to get 2 more policies before finishing, but others clearly are getting techs faster.

    I could have been faster knocking off the other Civs on my continent, I guess I should have built units earlier right after I had my religion set up. Enhancing the religion was pretty useless.

    --- Detailed notes ---

    T6 - Hit a ruin for culture and opened up Liberty, also met Ethiopia to take a paltry 20 gold from him
    T10 - Met Byzantium and got a better deal of 88 gold from her, also popped a ruin for Mining, Pottery finished and I start on Writing
    T11 - Found Mt Kalish for lots of cash
    T12 - Bought a Settler with the cash, had to delay a turn because Capital was still population 1
    T13 - Ethiopia asks for peace and offers about 50 gold
    T16 - Another culture ruin, take the free worker from Liberty
    T17 - Byzantium offers gold for peace, meet India and take 107 gold from him, back up to over 400 gold now
    T21 - 2nd city founded and met Siam, took 99 gold from him, used gold to buy tiles to access Mt Kalish and a Granary in 2nd city
    T23 - Accepted peace from India, not much money but I don't want everyone trying to kill me
    T24 - Found Cerro and popped a ruin for 20 faith
    T25 - Founded pantheon One with Nature for NW faith bonus, also got next policy, took Republic for production bonus
    T26 - 2nd city goes to population 2 and I can work Mt Kalish, now generating 20 faith per turn, Capital finished Granary and starts on Great Library
    T29 - I can get a free settler in 15 turns or buy one now, I have Siam outside my 2nd city so need to wait for scout escort to get there before buying
    T30 - Calendar finishes I can improve my dye now, start Archery
    T32 - Bought settler, Siam warrior is camped next to 2nd city, but almost dead, scout is there for escort, my upgraded archer scout is 2 turns away as well
    T34 - Starting to march settler to 3rd city location, research AH to find horses for 4th city and open trapping
    T35 - 2nd city monument done, starting on shrine (note should have built Library instead)
    T36 - Prophet spawns, take church property and holy warriors
    T37 - AH finishes, start on trapping
    T42 - Dye is available for sale and I get 156 for it from Ethiopia, I will need cash to buy tiles in 3rd city, trapping finishes so I can start on truffles in Capital, policy opens and I take Representation for the culture discount and start a golden age, trapping is done, starting beeline to CBs
    T44 - GL finishes, take philosophy, going to need cash to buy libraries, stole a worker from Columbo, start shrine in Capital
    T45 - Settle 3rd city on river next to wheat, buy NW tile, building monument, planning to buy Library here
    T46 - Shrine done in 2nd city, starting Library
    T47 - Shrine in Capital done, starting to build army
    T48 - Truffles ready, sold to India for enough to buy Library in 3rd city (4 turns after GL is done and I still don't have libraries and one is hard building in 2nd city)
    T50 - 3rd city grows to 2 and NW is locked into production, generating 39 gpt right now in golden age
    T52 - GA ends, still getting 29 gpt now rush buying archers with faith and building them in Capital
    T53 - Stole a worker from Prague to work in 3rd city, delaying construction by a turn to let another archer build in Capital
    T55 - Construction finishes, heading to Theology for Hagia Sophia, starting to upgrade 7 archers, building some warriors in Capital, I could break deal with Ethiopia to get dye back and resell it, but no one has much money, going to wait for salt to finish then sell it to Ethiopia too
    T60 - Sold salt and an embassy to India for 172, all but 2 archers now upgraded
    T61 - Ethiopia notices my army so I go ahead and DOW him, most other Civs denounce me, policy comes up and I take Meritocracy, I don't need free settler yet
    T62 - Start attacking Ethiopian Capital, Library finished in 2nd city, starting watermill, start NC in Capital (18 turns late!!)
    T63 - GA starts, Theology research starts
    T64 - Ethiopia falls, puppeted their Capital, upgrade last two archers, hoping to save rest of money for awhile to buy universities
    T65 - Splitting my army and sending some south and some north
    T69 - Took what little cash I could from Byzantium and DOWed to start assault on their capital
    T72 - Great Prophet finally spawns (3 turns late), religion enhanced to add Swords to Plowshares for the 15% growth bonus once all the wars end and Itinerant Preachers to help spread the religion, Siam notices my troops and we go to war, Byzantium falls (my warrior barely survived to take the city, should have brought two of them), Great General appears in 2nd city (convenient) (I could have used that faith earlier to build an army and take over my continent sooner)
    T73 - I take Siam's first city, Theology is completed and I start the beeline to Education, I pick up a captured settler to give me an extra worker and start another Settler in my 2nd city in case I need to settle near some horses after wars are done, next turn I see that Siam has annexed some horses, but I'll still need 2 settlers for the final war so keep building (turned out I only needed one)
    T76 - Cleared a barb camp that got Belgrade as an ally and also picked up a captured worker in the camp
    T78 - Starting assault on Siam's Capital and moving southern army north to help with India
    T81 - Siam falls, lost a CB in the process though, settler for later is done in 2nd city and Math just opened up, so building some siege weapons
    T82 - Crossed the 1000 gold mark and Belgrade gives me a CB in my 3rd city, so close to the action
    T83 - Finished Liberty and take a Great Scientist, settling him near Capital
    T86 - National College finally completes, the production in the Capital is just awful, starting Oracle to try and get another policy
    T88 - Traded truffles to India for all their gold then attacked, two cities to take out, 2nd city finished catapult and starts on market
    T90 - 1st of India's cities falls
    T92 - first two trade routes come online, I'm probably a little late building these, two more will finish soon
    T95 - India falls and I own the continent, over 1700 gold saved now and Education comes in 2 turns (I noticed Glory7 got Edu at turn 80, so I'm 17 turns late, just like I was 18 turns late starting the NC)
    T97 - Education finished and I have enough to buy 2 universities, research optics to get the embark on my units and prepare them to sail
    T101 - Astronomy will pop in about 10 turns, moving all my units into the water to stage them half going east, half going west, sending settlers with them to allow upgrades when they land, starting to buy units with faith (This is kind of late, I could have been doing CS quests for 20 turns instead of hustling into the water right after finishing taking out India)
    T103 - Buy the 3rd university
    T106 - Opened commerce to increase gold production
    T107 - Finally finished a horse pasture and bought two horsemen using faith
    T109 - Oracle finishes and I take Trade Unions, gpt goes up to 50
    T110 - Astronomy is done, armies start sailing
    T112 - Found a little island with Hong Kong and Lisbon on it off the east coast of my continent, or might be the other continent, not sure
    T115 - Land Ho! My settler hits shallow water on the northeast edge of the other continent
    T116 - Chivalry completes, can upgrade to Conquistadors once landed, starting beeline to Machinery, found ruins on island with Lisbon, I doubt it is other continent
    T117 - Great Scientist popped, I might use it to bulb to Gunpowder, met Austria and sold an ivory for all her cash and an embassy to locate her Capital, first spot I landed on I can't build a city, too close, need to find a better spot, she is so far behind I can't even get open borders to look around, I'm just going to land my army and take one of her cities, it will be faster
    T119 - Started war with Austria and found a place to land my other army on other coast, too bad it is jungle
    T120 - City founded on coast, starting to upgrade units, 1200 gold available
    T122 - Took 1st Austrian city, used the GS to bulb toward gunpowder, upgrading CBs to Xbows
    T123 - Policy came up, took Merchantilism, nothing really better to pick
    T124 - Used a Conquistador to find Sweden, sold him some luxuries for all his money (321 gold) plus 3 gpt and an embassy, gives me more money to use for upgrades
    T126 - Starting to take Austria and Sweden at the same time, northern army is 2 Conquistadors, 2 xbows, 3 swordsmen and a warrior (out of iron), southern army is a Conquistador, 4 xbows, and 3 swordsmen, no money left to buy some trebuchets but gold is running 100 gpt so soon, though I get gunpowder in 4 turns
    T128 - Sweden's first city is taken, marching on Stockholm, whittling down Vienna and really missing the siege weapon that I lost taking her first city, I could puppet Salzberg and rush buy one, but it wouldn't be worth it, I have enough to take it, and my southern army will need the Tercios for the march against Persia
    T129 - Took Austria's Capital by pounding on it with swordsmen and Conquistadors, taking a pause down south to upgrade to Tercios
    T131 - Finally met Persia, sold him all my excess luxuries for 20 gpt and all his gold, nice of him to finance his own destruction, also found a ruin on my continent that everyone had missed
    T134 - Stockholm goes down to the combined armies, now turning south for Persia, he has a city I plan to bypass and head straight to his Capital, I can avoid the marsh and use desert if I go that way
    T137 - Went ahead and annexed the city closest to front line to buy cannons (I didn't end up needing them)
    T138 - DOW Persia and start marching to his Capital, he seemed so surprised
    T143 - A river crossing slowed me down, but my first units are starting to attack Persia's Capital
    T145 - The Persian Capital falls to a Tercio
     
  19. glory7

    glory7 King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    Glad to hear that it is useful. I learned a lot from other people's reports before and if I can return that favor I would be really happy. Let me know if you have any questions.
     
  20. glory7

    glory7 King

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    704
    I read your detailed reports and here are some thoughts:

    1. your cap should have hit pop 2 at t5 if you settle in place and work at the oasis (3 food) tile. not sure how your cap was still at pop 1 at T12. At the very early game, focus on your cap pop growth. You want to hit 3 or 4 fast before builing anything.

    2. in this game, with NW alone you get +20 faith, so adding +1 faith with shrine is just not worth it. Use that hammer for other things.

    3. you are not planning for later games, so your religion enhancement is not really essential. in particular, don't choose +15% growth if you are not in war in domination game.

    4. planting liberty GS at T83 is pretty late. just use him to bulb astronomy. btw, I got edu at t87 (not t80 =) and astro at t92 with GS bulbing.

    5. T110 astronomy, but you found persia at t131 - kinda late. make sure you send units in two armies so that they can attack each part (north and south this case). find all civs asap and exchange embassy (if possible) to see where caps are.

    it's a great improvement from your first game and I think you will do much better at the next gotm!
     

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