TSG55 After Action Report thread

[Halcyan2]

3. you are not planning for later games, so your religion enhancement is not really essential. in particular, don't choose +15% growth if you are not in war in domination game.

Actually, I don't think Swords to Plowshares is that bad in this case. Due to the difficulty, you can stomp the AI pretty bad. When you do declare war, you should be able to take out the capital (and possibly the whole civ if it's their only city) in just 2-3 turns so most of the time you are still getting the growth bonus.

4. planting liberty GS at T83 is pretty late. just use him to bulb astronomy. btw, I got edu at t87 (not t80 =) and astro at t92 with GS bulbing.

What was your strategy for getting Education so early?

Did you sidetrack for any other techs (such as Construction)? Did you get lucky with your ancient ruins? Or something else?

 

[tommynt]

won this turn 109, gj glory for being faster in this 1

I hit astro turn 95 I think - so few turns later - not sure how u got from edu to astro in 7 turns - I did definatly need longer - also teched CB in between.

sub t100d be possible with map knowledge easily - without maybe aswell - I started killing my cont a bit late and had like no army in water when astro hit - guess that was main mistake, also going for religion was totaly unnneded in this and I kinda had known this before game - but well ..
Built also totaly usuales hangng gardens ...

my cont was even with only archers a easy pushover, 4 archers being able to kill a civ turn 60 - this difficulty is a bit too easy - isnt it?

 

[Monthar]

I finished my 2nd replay on turn 160, shaving 11 turns off my original and still didn't get any natural wonders first.

On my 3rd replay I managed to get to the faith wonder first but someone beat me to Cerro De Potosi. When I wasn't done by turn 161 I abandoned this attempt.

On my 4th attempt not only did I manage to get both natural wonders on the starting continent first, I also managed to win on turn 130. Again I bought a settler and escorted it to the faith wonder and built a city. Then I got a free pop in that city from a ruin. However I was a few gold short of buying the 2nd settler right away and had to wait a few turns, but I did get that settler on the southern coast putting Cerro De Potosi in the 3rd ring. A couple of trades let me buy the tiles to grab the wonder before Prague could get it.

The 4th attempt is the only one I went Liberty with. I used the free settler to build a city between on the river by the horses just south of Ethiopia.

I saved the GS I got from finishing Liberty to bulb Astronomy. However, I think since I got it before I finished education I probably should have should have bulbed immediately to finish education sooner and that might have shave a few more turns off on getting to Astronomy.

I think I should have skipped going to composite bows until after getting Astronomy. Archers and horses probably would have been enough to take the continent.

 

[dthompson32]

I read your detailed reports and here are some thoughts:

1. your cap should have hit pop 2 at t5 if you settle in place and work at the oasis (3 food) tile. not sure how your cap was still at pop 1 at T12. At the very early game, focus on your cap pop growth. You want to hit 3 or 4 fast before builing anything.

2. in this game, with NW alone you get +20 faith, so adding +1 faith with shrine is just not worth it. Use that hammer for other things.

3. you are not planning for later games, so your religion enhancement is not really essential. in particular, don't choose +15% growth if you are not in war in domination game.

4. planting liberty GS at T83 is pretty late. just use him to bulb astronomy. btw, I got edu at t87 (not t80 =) and astro at t92 with GS bulbing.

5. T110 astronomy, but you found persia at t131 - kinda late. make sure you send units in two armies so that they can attack each part (north and south this case). find all civs asap and exchange embassy (if possible) to see where caps are.

it's a great improvement from your first game and I think you will do much better at the next gotm!

I'm doing this one yet again because it is so freaking educational, but I won't give such a detailed report on the 3rd playthrough

1 - Great tip, I was trying to get the scouts out in 10 turns instead of 14, so switched off the oasis until they were built. Big early game mistake that I bet accumulates into 4 or 5 turns that can't be recovered.

2 - Yeah, I've noticed, +1 faith is useless when already generating at 20 a turn. I have noticed that sometimes it drops to 12 a turn, not sure why. On 3rd replay I'm ignoring shrines. As soon as the GL finished, I was sure to have libraries up in the other cities and started building the NC on turn 42 instead of 62.

3 - Definitely found out that the enhancers, especially STPS wasn't needed. Any growth I needed, I needed while I was conquering. I'm not bothering with enhancing this time.

4 - GS bulbing! Of course! I feel dumb for that. I've already planted on T80, I might drop back to an autosave to undo it and save the GS.

5 - Even knowing where the other continent was, I still sent the two armies in the wrong directions. I should have sailed southeast from 3rd city by the gold NW and west from my capital. I ended up with my 2nd army in a jungle on the other island and didn't really save any time getting to Persia

Edit - I saved the GS and got to Edu on turn 97, 10 turns after you did. I'm going to need to look hard at my opening, I think I got the started on the GL and NC in optimal times, so I must not be growing my Capital fast enough. Ended up getting to Astro on turn 105, so still faster, but puzzled by why I'm 10 turns slower to Edu. I might have some other things I researched, like BW, that I didn't need. Currently generating 86 spt.

 

[Browd]

2 - Yeah, I've noticed, +1 faith is useless when already generating at 20 a turn. I have noticed that sometimes it drops to 12 a turn, not sure why.

The drop to 12 results from temporary loss of your pantheon belief in your Kailash city.

Just to level set, the 20 faith comes from working Mt. Kailash (2 x 6 faith) and the One With Nature pantheon (2 x 4 faith). When you founded the Kailash city, you got your pantheon in both your capital and the Kailash city, resulting in the full 20 faith.

When you founded your religion in your capital, it incorporated your pantheon as one of your religious beliefs, but your religion initially appeared only in your capital, while your Kailash city had just your pantheon, still generating 20 faith.

Your holy city was exerting 6 pressure on all cities within 10 tiles, including your Kailash city and, over time, converted a follower or two in your Kailash city, such that at a certain point your Kailash city had neither a majority of followers of your religion NOR a majority followers of your pantheon. So, for a few turns, until your religion became a majority, your Kailash city had neither your pantheon nor your religion. Hence, no One With Nature benefits during those turns.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

interesting, so if you have 2 followers of a pantheon and 2 followers of a religion it will negate the pantheon bonus for not being a majority. i didnt know that pantheons were subject to that kind of thing. sounds almost like a bug really.

 

[Browd]

Would you think it (the period when your city had no majority belief system) was a bug if the religion displacing your pantheon was someone else's religion? In a 5-pop city, pantheon majority (4 followers) => neither majority (2 vs. 2) => other religion majority (3 vs. 1) is, I think, a progression that we understand and that feels more or less "right".

What seems wonky in the case where your own religion is displacing your own pantheon is that your pantheon belief is also part of your religion. You would argue (and I wouldn't disagree with you) that in our hypothetical 5-pop city with 2 pantheon followers and 2 religion followers, your pantheon belief is still being followed by 4 of the 5 citizens and should remain in effect during the transition from your pantheon to your religion.

The mechanical problem is they coded pantheon as a type of religion (just as atheism is coded as a type of religion), so the fact that one belief overlaps between your pantheon and your religion would require special coding in order for your pantheon to still be regarded as the majority belief (4 pantheon followers and 2 religion followers in a 5-pop city?). Probably could be done, but I doubt it's much of a priority.

Anyway, the religion transition usually happens pretty quickly.

 

[Monthar]

I forgot to mention what my religion choices were for the turn 130 victory. I did enhance for one reason, cheaper missionaries.

Faith from natural wonders.
100 gold when a city first converts.
Buy pre-industrial land units with faith.
Mosques for the extra faith and a little happiness.
Cheaper missionaries so I could get those 100 gold booster shots sooner and to send one over to the 2nd continent along with a settler so I could both upgrade my units when they arrived and to buy more units with faith to speed the conquest.

Thinking about it now, it probably would have been better to take the 1% production boost per follower as the first follower belief and the buy pre-industrial land units as the 2nd follower belief.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Would you think it (the period when your city had no majority belief system) was a bug if the religion displacing your pantheon was someone else's religion? In a 5-pop city, pantheon majority (4 followers) => neither majority (2 vs. 2) => other religion majority (3 vs. 1) is, I think, a progression that we understand and that feels more or less "right".

What seems wonky in the case where your own religion is displacing your own pantheon is that your pantheon belief is also part of your religion. You would argue (and I wouldn't disagree with you) that in our hypothetical 5-pop city with 2 pantheon followers and 2 religion followers, your pantheon belief is still being followed by 4 of the 5 citizens and should remain in effect during the transition from your pantheon to your religion.

The mechanical problem is they coded pantheon as a type of religion (just as atheism is coded as a type of religion), so the fact that one belief overlaps between your pantheon and your religion would require special coding in order for your pantheon to still be regarded as the majority belief (4 pantheon followers and 2 religion followers in a 5-pop city?). Probably could be done, but I doubt it's much of a priority.

Anyway, the religion transition usually happens pretty quickly.

yeah, its only a silly thing when the pantheon is part of the religion it's battling it out with. i get that it needs that function when multiple religions are involved but yeah, it wasn't coded thoroughly, for sure.

 

[DrZ]

Your name: DrZ
Game status: Domination Victory
Game date: 920AD
Turns played: 156

Same like everybody, faith with Natural Wonders, time limited only by Astro which i bulbed with my great scientist (GS points from Great Library)
I did build wonders though, probably a bad idea:
1. Great Library -> iron working, but had no iron in the neibourhood..
2. Oracle -> so i can get naval tradition -> great admiral and scout before astro not sure if it's a good idea
3. Great Lighthouse -> thought it will make my units get on the other continent faster (it doesn't, it helps only military ships)

Lesson learned. Now, on to the Deity Challenges again!!!

 

[glory7]

Actually, I don't think Swords to Plowshares is that bad in this case. Due to the difficulty, you can stomp the AI pretty bad. When you do declare war, you should be able to take out the capital (and possibly the whole civ if it's their only city) in just 2-3 turns so most of the time you are still getting the growth bonus.


What was your strategy for getting Education so early?

Did you sidetrack for any other techs (such as Construction)? Did you get lucky with your ancient ruins? Or something else?

After reading your post, I think actually enhancing religion early and taking 15% growth at like t50-60 could help spt. I spent all my faith on holy warriors and missionaries before t60 so for me it was too late.

I got archery ruin at t12 and not sure about any other tech ruins. I went for construction before edu and other than that just sailing. I think early 3 cities with granaries and libs up helped a lot. I chopped a lot to get GL and NC quick, so that might have helped too.

 

[glory7]

won this turn 109, gj glory for being faster in this 1

I hit astro turn 95 I think - so few turns later - not sure how u got from edu to astro in 7 turns - I did definatly need longer - also teched CB in between.

sub t100d be possible with map knowledge easily - without maybe aswell - I started killing my cont a bit late and had like no army in water when astro hit - guess that was main mistake, also going for religion was totaly unnneded in this and I kinda had known this before game - but well ..
Built also totaly usuales hangng gardens ...

my cont was even with only archers a easy pushover, 4 archers being able to kill a civ turn 60 - this difficulty is a bit too easy - isnt it?

Thank you. For this low difficulty domination game, I think the strategy is pretty much the same for everyone so it comes down to the matter of luck.

As I mentioned in other threads before, I learned a lot from your threads and videos. In particular, following your actions one by one for 2 gotms after I played my own and compared with your moves and decisions significantly enhanced my play.

I thought I might stop playing civ5 if I get gold medal at gotm or get faster time than yours at least one time - which is a great accomplishment and honor. Maybe it's time to stop playing too much and work hard in real life.

For astro, I just checked my save file and noticed that I got edu at t86, not 87. I assumed it from t81 screenshot but I guess pop increase reduced one turn. with 3 univs, my spt was 112 and I only had 3 techs - optics (1 turn), compass (4 turns), astro (8 turns) - to go. I bulbed liberty GS at t91 when it said astro was 8 turns to go, but spt was short a bit (847/858). I think you teched CB between so that took several turns.

 

[Browd]

Replayed with MUCH better choices for build order, tech order, bulb timing, religion (e.g., initiation rites instead of church property) and war strategy (mostly, starting earlier, building 2 armies and never stopping) for turn 114 finish. Map knowledge obviously helped a great deal, but inspiration from Glory7's terrific write-up was key. Thanks

 

[tommynt]

As I mentioned in other threads before, I learned a lot from your threads and videos. In particular, following your actions one by one for 2 gotms after I played my own and compared with your moves and decisions significantly enhanced my play.

thx for flowers

Thank you. For this low difficulty domination game, I think the strategy is pretty much the same for everyone so it comes down to the matter of luck.

no luck is like no part in winning this fast or not (even when finding 2 nw obviously 1. helps - I found 1). Being focused on the target - kill every1 and tech astro fast that the important thing here - and as said I missed focusing on that a bit - building religion stuff is totaly unnneeded and pantheon should obviously be the +15% for wonders to speed gl/nc/oracle.

I had my archers way too spread accros map (too used to fullfill CS quests fast when u got load of time at this lvl) when all u need is to have 4 of them and a archer and kill 1 after another as early as possible befoer they get any army.

 

[Monthar]

I usually don't consider using the wonder production pantheon, but I can see how that might speed this game up even more.

 

[kargano]

265 turn dom victory, no submission.

I played way too safely, was trying to beeline to iron but of course there was none around. Found kalish first, but didn't think of settling next to it and taking advantage of holy warriors like others did. Wasted a lot of time taking out all the little cities that the other civs were popping out when I finally moved out with CB/warrs. Got astro around t240, discovered that sweden's cap was persepolis so I bum rushed vienna for the win, which was delayed a few turns since it had great wall.

 

[glory7]

Replayed with MUCH better choices for build order, tech order, bulb timing, religion (e.g., initiation rites instead of church property) and war strategy (mostly, starting earlier, building 2 armies and never stopping) for turn 114 finish. Map knowledge obviously helped a great deal, but inspiration from Glory7's terrific write-up was key. Thanks

you're welcome - glad to hear that it was helpful. t114 is a great time for 2nd play.

 

[Tventano]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 55
Date submitted: 2013-02-25
Reference number: 28401
Your name: Tventano
Game status: Domination Victory
Game date: 1150AD
Turns played: 175
Base score: 1454
Final score: 4154
Time played: 4:37:00

Long time ago that I played GOTM's, it is nice to compare results and strategy with others. Never play at Warlord level and I am not used to such quick aggro play. So I learned quite a lot, thanks for organizing the GOTM's!

Settled SW of Oasis in the hope to find something else than just forest. I was never first at a Natural Wonder and just got 83gold (why not 100?). Started with 2 scouts and found 20 faith in a ruins, chose desert (thus immediately +2 per turn). Went for gold per city and pagoda's. Happiness just went up (extra happiness for natural wonders at warlord?) so the religion did not do anything useful.

Went Liberty and ICS. 2nd city was founded before GL, thus never started the NC.
Realized pretty late that I could easily CB rush the continent.

After Liberty I went Commerce for +1 speed on water and the admiral. Turn 144 I found the other continent and finished conquering my continent. Turn 146 Astronomy. I built to many wonders and did not focus on a quick win. Should have taken GS instead of GE for Liberty finisher.

 

[dthompson32]

Well I finish a 3rd replay after taking the weekend off to run a race. Getting better at it, got a Turn 130 win. I might do this one one more time to work on the early capital growth like Glory suggests. I also still took too long getting an army out, I ended up leaving India with two cities because I needed to get my troops in the water. Only took about 10 turns to subdue the other continent once my troops were ashore.

 

[Woodszilla]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 55
Date submitted: 2013-02-25
Reference number: 28405
Your name: Woodszilla
Game status: Domination Victory
Game date: 1030AD
Turns played: 163
Base score: 1011
Final score: 3159
Time played: 6:02:00
Submitted save: Isabella_0163 AD-1030.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Woodszilla_C505501.Civ5Save

I finished on turn 166 163... Will submit tonight when I get home, and try to do a decent write-up, but I was pretty disappointed by my time. I could see shaving 30, maybe 40 turns off with more focus. Can't image how I would shave off 60 turns! glory and tommy you guys are crazy good. Grats.

Don't think I actually spent 6 hours on this, probably half of that is idle time.

My biggest downfall was unfocused teching. If I had beelined education it would have made a huge difference. As I played, I had taken all caps on my continent and then had my army swimming in the shallow for about 20 turns waiting for astro.

Then by the time I got there, Austria had Great Wall so that slowed me down a good couple turns as well.

Social policies and religion choices could have been better too... I really need to do more planning/strategizing before I just go for it.

EDIT:
First GOTM submission.

I don't want to get into a long write up as my time wasn't that great-

Settled in place. Went 4 cities tradition then went into Honor because I didn't know what else to do, 2 scouts, found 2 wonders first on main continent, bought 2 settlers with the gold. built GL(theo) and pyramids. stole 3 workers from CSs. Hard built all buildings, granaries, libraries etc.... settled 4th city by faith wonder (mainly to be able to upgrade closer to the top 2 civs) with a bought settler, one with nature pantheon. But by the time I got a religion, I had big enough armies built that holy warriors would have been redundant. I took tithe and religious community.

didn't beeline education, kinda just messed around teching toward xb's without unlocking construction. biggest mistake there.

built 2 armies, sent one north toward siam, one east to byz. unlocked construction, upgraded most of my archers and went on a capital spree. 4-5 cbs + war or spear(ruin).

As I said before, my army sat around in the shallows waiting for astro to finish, about 20 turns =/ I did float around and demand gold from CSs while I waited tho, so I had a lot of cash (that i didnt end up using all of) when I finally set sail (west).

Took a settler with me, plopped him between... god i don't even remember the opponents already, the middle and bottom one =x Bought xbows and a swordsman to hit the bottom capital, while my embarked units went to hit Austria and the middle guy.

Austria had Great Wall, so that one took the longest, needed to bring in a couple reinforcements to finish the job.


If I did it over, I would beeline education, settle the faith wonder with 2nd settler, holy warriors, go liberty->commerce, steal more workers and skip pyramids, start warring earlier.

Another good learning experience I suppose. Hopefully I have a better showing on the next GOTM.