Tupac08 - Simply Sid

Do we have any sort of consensus yet?
If nobody objects in the next 24 hours I'm going to go ahead and roll up a few starts and I'll pick the settings.

Suits me. I think we've mostly agreed that whatever you like is fine.
 
Ok I've rolled up some options as the dutch (continents, 70% water, Wet, Temperate, 4 Billion years old, No barbs)

Option 1


Option 2



Option 3


Option 4


Option 5



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Personally I favour option 5, but I'm not sure about any nearby luxs, Option 2 and Option 4 both have a food bonus (you can see the wheat to the NW in the fog in option 4) and a luxury (though for option 2 they are one and the same).
 
Options 1 and 4 would both require moving before settling, 1 to get off the cow and 4 to get on fresh water (needed for the extra food for agricultural civs in despotism).

Option 3 looks like a bad deal all around - no food, no luxuries. I like 5 significantly better than 1.

Having luxes available immediately is always nice. Ivory gives Statue of Zeus possibilities. This would give us a guaranteed 2-move, 3-attack unit, which is handy if horses or iron aren't located conveniently.

Neither 2 nor 4 will get us the excess food of a cow, though. 4 also appears to have a lot of plains under the forest, rather than grass, although it is hard to tell on my monitor. On the other hand, it has lots of forest to chop, too.

I think I have a slight preference for 4 over 5 right now, because of the presence of ivory. We can see a lot more in option 5, and it has lots of nice stuff - cow, BG, hills, rivers, and what appears to be a pretty good sized land mass (I'm assuming the land to the east, with its second river, is connected) - so I could go for option 5, too.
 
I quite like the wines of option 2, two food bonuses, but I am happy to go with 4 or 5. Option 1 looks OK but I am not keem on 3, no river so no trade bonuses
 
My preference is for option 5 I think, unless we have ALL the ivory I don't like our chances of statue of zeus anyway.

@Daeron, welcome aboard! :) on which start do you throw your hat?
 
Thank you :)

Option 2 and 5 seem most appealing to me. I doubt the ivory will get us the statue of zeus, especially if we're also aiming for the GLib?

5 definitely looks more promising commerce and shield wise. While 2 might be a safer bet, less central, so we might be able to expand towards the coast in one direction. But I'm not sure what the added value of the wines is in the early game if we run minimum science.

Considering the short window for expansion, capitol is best suited for SF, so that rules out 1, 3 and 4 for me. Both 2 and 5 can do this.

I do feel that 2 is the safest choice of the lot, it has two lux, a capitol SF and a branching river. But 5 is good as well, I'm fine with either.

Edit: Couldn't make out the wheat in option 4, but if there is wheat, it's good as well, though 2 and 5 seem preferable.
 
I like the terrain of 5 best, but the lack of a lux bothers me. I was recently tripped up by a nearly total lack of luxes on my large, starting island, and I'd like to avoid this again.

I've been having food-counting issues, but I think I've gotten it straight now. 2 and 5 both give +5 fpt, while 4 gives +4 fpt since it is a plains wheat, correct?

I'm leaning toward 2 now.
 
I like the terrain of 5 best, but the lack of a lux bothers me. I was recently tripped up by a nearly total lack of luxes on my large, starting island, and I'd like to avoid this again.

I've been having food-counting issues, but I think I've gotten it straight now. 2 and 5 both give +5 fpt, while 4 gives +4 fpt since it is a plains wheat, correct?

I'm leaning toward 2 now.

I missed that the wheat is on a plains tile as well. But yeah, 2 and 5 diverge on luxuries and terrain. 2 has the lux, but terrain wise, 5 might be more interesting. For a coastal start, tt might just allow us more the usual half a circle around our capitol than is usual with a coastal start.

It might be good to start with option 5, since, if it turns out to be a disaster we can always give up and start another with option 2.
 
So if I read this right we have

Option 2 - Del62, CKS
Option 5 - tupaclives, Daeron

What about Daeron's suggestion of starting on option 5 and if it turns out to be a poor start we try option 2?
 
So if I read this right we have

Option 2 - Del62, CKS
Option 5 - tupaclives, Daeron

What about Daeron's suggestion of starting on option 5 and if it turns out to be a poor start we try option 2?


Sounds good to me.
 
Alright we are underway.

Roster
tupaclives - up
CKS - on deck
del62
Daeron

First question, based off our start do we assume we will have space and go immediately for a settler factory (worker --> granary --> settlers, and let new cities provide military), conservative (immediate curraghs, warriors for MP and scouting and hold back on the first settler) or do we want an early settler?

There are no barbs so if this was a solo game I would go for a little bit of Wei Chi ambition and go immediately for a settler factory to try to grab as much land as possible.
 
Yeah, could go straight to SF, then next town will be set up with barracks and the third for curraghs. Immediate curraghs cater more towards archipelago I think.

Faster expanding will make it easier for us to buy techs from our neighbours (more cities, more commerce).
 
Is it not worth getting a warrior out before the first worker then scout a bit, if we find a second food source early then we can get a settler out before granary.
 
Is it not worth getting a warrior out before the first worker then scout a bit, if we find a second food source early then we can get a settler out before granary.

You're the Dutch. Do you want a warrior for scouting or a curragh?
 
Oh well here we go

Turn 1 (4000BC) - Found Amsterdam on the spot, set production to worker, due in 5 (with a view to a warrior next). Writing @ 10% (because we are seafaring and on the coast + river + working a tile on the river we have enough commerce to run at 10%)

Turn 5 (3750BC) - Amsterdam: Worker --> Warrior

Turn 10 (3500BC) - Amsterdam: Warrior --> Warrior (both will be for scouting), lux tax to 10%.

Turn 12 (3400BC) - We spy gems in range of a 2nd city. Excellent :)

Turn 13 (3350BC) - Amsterdam: Warrior --> Granary

Turn 14 (3300BC) - Lux tax to 20%

Turn 18 (3100BC) - Lux tax to 30%

Turn 19 (3050BC) - Spy Ivory to our South-east. This start looks even better :) Still no sign of any AI civs yet.

Turn 20 (3000BC) - Turnset over.

Post-Flight Notes:

We have 2 luxuries in sight, a fair amount of fresh water. Very few food bonuses away from the capital and still no sign of the AI.
Either we have a bit of space (in which case we need to start pumping out settlers before the AI shows up) or we are alone (in which case we need to start pumping settlers to get the land filled up so we can generate enough commerce for research).
Either way we need to start pumping settlers from Amsterdam.

I've done a little bit of a dotmap, it's very rough but it's designed to grab the luxuries, and make as much use of the fresh water as we can.

My gut feeling is to get a settler to the Blue Dot asap (purely because it's an extremely valuable spot and is the furthest away and thus most vulnerable to being snapped up if we do have company) and the 2nd settler grabs the red dot (thus giving us access to 2 luxuries in short order.
In a solo game I would then have these 2 sites on warrior/worker rotation and get a city on the sea (Black dot?, or even where the northernmost warrior is) in order to get a few curraghs out in short order.
Otherwise we should see if we can squeeze a curragh or two out of amsterdam, but lets grab the 2 luxuries first!

On a little note, I accidently hit build city before taking the initial screenshot so it wanted to call the first city Rotterdam when I loaded up the save to start this turnset and I manually changed it to Amsterdam, it means our city name queue will be out a bit.




Enjoy it guys, this looks like a good start, but then again there is no such thing as an easy start on SID!
 

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tupaclives - Just Played
CKS - UP
Del62 - On Deck
Daeron

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war. You may, however, incite them to war (demands to leave, espionage etc.)

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.

Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.

You may not found and abandon a city in the same turn (this is to prevent 'crawling' your way through an AI civ's territory in 1 turn (by founding, moving a settler one tile, abandoning the city then founding a new city etc.)

You cannot gift the GLib away simply to allow you to gain a greater benefit by capturing it later. You may, however, capture the GLib as built by an AI civ at a later point in the game and receive the full benefit of doing so.

Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ. The ONLY exception is a pure per-turn deal if it is the last war of the game. I still don't like this, but this is a concession to the SG community standards.

4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
 
lurker's comment: Imo, no town position is worth to walk 9 turns with your settler. Just start with the towns in your vicinity, where you really should have explored better (if Sid and min research) for the optimal next site. build roads and found more and farther cities asap. if you are really lucky, blue dot will still be there.
templar_x
 
8 turns, and it provides us with a guaranteed luxury to trade, as well as the only other 2 food bonuses in sight, on a river. I think it is an extremely valuable site.
 
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