Turkey shells Northern Iraq, ground operations to occur within days

[Che Guava]

If Turkey is going to eliminate this terrorist organization I give my full support.

Too bad that those guys are getting support from the US to fight in Iran. Well at least according to the Daily Telegraph


Whoops!

 

[Godwynn]

Too bad that those guys are getting support from the US to fight in Iran. Well at least according to the Daily Telegraph


Whoops!

We support commies? Pah.

 

[Stewbert 08]

How has Turkey been the problem? It memory serves, they've been the stable and more tolerant country of the middle east, recognizing Israel, and providing a better model for government than most of its neighbours. Kurdistan has always been a bit of a sore point (and a black mark), but relatively speaking I think that Turkey has done more to stabilize the middle east than any other muslim nation...

Turkey has violently repressed its Kurds including murder, "disappearances," cultural repression etc.

The reason is because Turkey is a phony-ass country that's sitting right on top of part of the nation of Kurdistan, which covers parts of Turkey, Iraq and Iran. Nearly 1/4 of Turkey is in Kurdistan.

All three countries foresaw that an invasion would lead to greater independence for Iraqi Kurds and feared that an Iraqi Kurdistan would become a military or popular base for the formation of an actual Kurdish state, with the rebellion of Iranian and Turkish Kurds.

Turkish interference was predicted from the very start of the war but of course the neocons planned with it in mind. Oh, wait, they didn't plan for this or anything else? SHOCKER.

The reason Turkey is stretching its legs now is even more humiliating. It's because the impotence of the American military to control Iraq has been pretty clearly demonstrated. They know the Kurds won't even wait for us to leave before they strike out for nationhood. So they're moving in preemptively. Question is, can we stop them? Probably not.

No silly, this time we're going to do it right and make them Greeks again.

Too late, most Greeks are ethnically Turkish or part-Turkish.

 

[Che Guava]

We support commies? Pah.

Commies are only quasi-scum since the islamists took thier spot at the bottom of the barrel, so it's ok to use commies to fight terrorists

 

[Bill3000]

Too late, most Greeks are ethnically Turkish or part-Turkish.

And vice-versa!

What, you think Anatolia was completely depopulated when the Turks moved in?

 

[Godwynn]

Commies are only quasi-scum since the islamists took thier spot at the bottom of the barrel, so it's ok to use commies to fight terrorists

Are we supplying them arms and money?

Sooner or later that will come back to haunt us.

 

[Che Guava]

Are we supplying them arms and money?

Sooner or later that will come back to haunt us.

With Turkey set to go kurd-hunting, I think sooner is rapidly becoming 'now'...

 

[Stewbert 08]

We gave them billions of dollars in military aid during 1994-96 the exact same time they were slaughtering the Kurds. Probably some of the helicopters they will soon be using to kill innocents in N. Iraq were paid for by the Clinton Presidency.

In fact I think they briefly surpassed Egypt as our largest recipient of foreign aid after Israel.

In short, WE FAIL.

 

[Ancyrean]

Wonderful situation - if the US wants a support of Iraqi Kurds (who are the only group which supports the US to this day), it must stop Turkey. If it stops Turkey, it will lose one of the most important allies in the region.

The US is paralyzed by the very dilemma that you describe. As a result, it is more likely for the US to publicly admonish the Turkish incursion (to look concerned about it to their Kurdish friends) while privately telling the Turkish government to get over with it fast, while telling the Kurds that they can shout out their outrage but keep it there.

Then they have to hope the Turkish operation is succesful, so that the Turks will go back sooner.

I suspects Turks do this because they want to force the US to do it for them. Anyway, it give the EU a perfect excuse to stop membership talks with Turkey.

Although that outcome lies at the heart of your desire, you forget the fact that the membership negotiations with Turkey was opened with a unanimous European Council decision, and requires such another one to stop it. This won't happen, as Turkey has many friends in the EU.

More likely, there'll be an EU statement saying "the use of force doesn't solve anything blah blah blah and we urge the Turkish government to refrain from hurting civilians etc etc etc". They can only "threaten" about the negotiations if the Turkish invasion is very wide-spread, ie all over Northern Iraq, or it gets prolonged into several weeks with reports of many civilian casualties.

 

[Greek Stud]

Maybe there's a plan to carve Turkey before Thanksgiving. Or at least America will get tired of being blackmailed, and funding the build-up of Turkey's armed forces. Nah, that'd make too much sense, let's pretend Turkey is a good example for the Middle East and didn't support the Marxists and Cuban troops that attacked Ethiopia. Oh but who cares about Ethiopia. Let's just fix all of Turkey's ports so they can demand another 30 billion to invade Iraq. And with Turkey crowning themselves the guarentee power over the Turcomen in Kirkuk, I wonder if they will ever leave Iraq like they have left Cyprus. Maybe after 20 million Turks move into former Kurdish houses as they have become refugees and fled to the United States to be told to get over it like Condi a woman and african american told the Armenians to get over the Armenian genocide. If I could get away with half as much as that country does then maybe I wouldn't be so upset, but unfortunately everytime I broke the law I got in trouble. No free pass darn it.

 

[Ancyrean]

Maybe there's a plan to carve Turkey before Thanksgiving. Or at least America will get tired of being blackmailed, and funding the build-up of Turkey's armed forces. Nah, that'd make too much sense, let's pretend Turkey is a good example for the Middle East and didn't support the Marxists and Cuban troops that attacked Ethiopia. Oh but who cares about Ethiopia. Let's just fix all of Turkey's ports so they can demand another 30 billion to invade Iraq. And with Turkey crowning themselves the guarentee power over the Turcomen in Kirkuk, I wonder if they will ever leave Iraq like they have left Cyprus. Maybe after 20 million Turks move into former Kurdish houses as they have become refugees and fled to the United States to be told to get over it like Condi a woman and african american told the Armenians to get over the Armenian genocide. If I could get away with half as much as that country does then maybe I wouldn't be so upset, but unfortunately everytime I broke the law I got in trouble. No free pass darn it.

The only part in your post that I can find some semblance of deserving a reply is that Turkey doesn't claim to have guarantee powers over the Turkomans. This is unlike your transparent allusion to Cyprus, where it did, by virtue of the founding treaties of "the Republic of Cyprus". The rest of your post seems like taking this opportunity to pour the heaviest possible sarcasm on Turkey in general.

Also, what exactly are you talking about with regard to Ethiopia? Turkey aided which "Marxists and Cubans" invading Ethiopia??

 

[Winner]

Although that outcome lies at the heart of your desire, you forget the fact that the membership negotiations with Turkey was opened with a unanimous European Council decision, and requires such another one to stop it. This won't happen, as Turkey has many friends in the EU.

Who?

AFAIK majority of people is against Turkey's membership and the governments must reflect that.

More likely, there'll be an EU statement saying "the use of force doesn't solve anything blah blah blah and we urge the Turkish government to refrain from hurting civilians etc etc etc". They can only "threaten" about the negotiations if the Turkish invasion is very wide-spread, ie all over Northern Iraq, or it gets prolonged into several weeks with reports of many civilian casualties.

It will be another argument against the accession. Do you really think the EU would let a country which is engaged in a border war in? It's not going to happen.

 

[brainpan]

Commies are only quasi-scum since the islamists took thier spot at the bottom of the barrel, so it's ok to use commies to fight terrorists

LOL. Well, we used to help the terrorists fight the commies! As a kid who grew up in the 80's, this all seems so confusing to me.

 

[brainpan]

...

This post has been censured. You are Greek and therefore ineligible to comment on the nation of Turkey. Any Armenians at this site are also disqualified from commenting.

Everyone else, just settle down. Turkey is a great country in a lot of ways. It is progressive, modern, secular, and even semi pro-western.

No nation tolerates constant cross-border terrorist raids and Turkey has endured them for decades. It will defend itself the same way China, Philippines, Israel, Russia, and Jordan has...to name just a few who have had to deal with the exact same problem.

 

[The Yankee]

Turkish-American relations have been rather relatively cold in the past couple of years...so I suppose there is some posturing to be done over who really controls what.

 

[Ancyrean]

Who?

AFAIK majority of people is against Turkey's membership and the governments must reflect that.

I was referring to governments of several countries, like Britain, Spain, Italy, Portugal.

You're right that many public opinion polls reflect the long-standing prejudices of Europeans against Turks and Turkey but it doesn't mean that governments should give up on educating their publics about the wrongness of those prejudices, or on the long term benefits of Turkey's membership.

It will be another argument against the accession. Do you really think the EU would let a country which is engaged in a border war in? It's not going to happen.

They did so before They let in "Cyprus", with full knowledge that this entity has been a party to a bitter inter-ethnic conflict and that taking it in will import all the attendant problems of that intractable issue.

Even the dumbest of political analysts would see that Greek Cypriots would have no incentive for a compromise solution with the Turkish Cypriots once they are unilaterally in the EU, but no, such wisdom isn't in EU's colective forte. Predictably, the next headline you read was: Greek Cypriots vote no for the most comprehensive UN plan praised by the EU along with the international community.

 

[germanicus12]

LOL. Well, we used to help the terrorists fight the commies! As a kid who grew up in the 80's, this all seems so confusing to me.

Welcome to the real world.

The US uses anybody who is willing to fight against a certain enemy for money. This eliminates the possibility that US soldiers will die in the war. The US is addicted to mercianaries now.

When fighting in Korea, they used South Korea's military for some of their more dangerous missions. In Vietnam they used the South Vietnam military for the same reason. And look at how it turned out for America. Both wars were costly and a defeat. Yes, I believe Korea was a defeat for us. So why is anyone really surprised?

 

[The Yankee]

Commies are only quasi-scum since the islamists took thier spot at the bottom of the barrel, so it's ok to use commies to fight terrorists

Are we supplying them arms and money?

Sooner or later that will come back to haunt us.

I'm getting an '80s flashback here. Something about Afghanistan. Wicked.

 

[Xenocrates]

The Turks could use US strategy (since the US is a paragon of wisdom and decency) and do:

The bombing of Laos and Cambodia (3,630 raids in Cambodia between March 1969 and May 1970), an act that Kissinger and Nixon kept secret from Congress and the American people, violated the UN charter and the Nuremberg principles.

LOL I just read:

Nixon’s minions, in turn, made use of that intelligence to pass messages to the South Vietnamese to hang tough, telling them they would get a better deal from Nixon than they would from Humphrey. Sadly, it worked — and, as Hitchens writes, “four years later the Nixon Administration tried to conclude the war on the same terms that had been offered in Paris. . . . n those intervening years some 20,000 Americans and an uncalculated number of Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians lost their lives.

What a card that Kissinger guy was!

http://www.amazon.com/Sideshow-Revised-Kissinger-Destruction-Cambodia/dp/081541224X

http://bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/dont_quote_me/documents/00671039.htm

 

[Pannonius]

This post has been censured. You are Greek and therefore ineligible to comment on the nation of Turkey. Any Armenians at this site are also disqualified from commenting.

Everyone else, just settle down. Turkey is a great country in a lot of ways. It is progressive, modern, secular, and even semi pro-western.

No nation tolerates constant cross-border terrorist raids and Turkey has endured them for decades. It will defend itself the same way China, Philippines, Israel, Russia, and Jordan has...to name just a few who have had to deal with the exact same problem.

Than half of Europeans aren't eligibile to post here, because their countries were invaded by Turks. You're a real democrat.
Turkey is a aggresive backwater terror state, and they not only attack their neighbours regularly, but they also kill their own citizens by thousands.
BTW. Try being a christian in Turkey.