Turn Discussion Thread

I agree copper first we want the production first, and I'd lean towards woodsman for the upgrade. I tend to go that way with exploring warriors on the off chance that they accumulate enough exp to get woodsman 2 and the double move.

One thing I mentioned earlier but didn't see a response to. What do you guys think about lowering our tech rate and accumulating some gold? We know we're out producing our allies in terms of beakers, and this gap will only grow wider when the academy is finished. I feel we can still contribute a fair ammount to the alliance at a lower tech rate, while also accumulating some gold which we can use for upgrades, or for deficit research after the alliance splits up and we need to get ahead of the other half.
 
I agree that Woodsman is good for Fogbusting as well since we have so much jungle as well.

As for lowering our gold we still have enough to run a deficet for a few more turns yet, though I do think we will be doing that eventually I just think were not at that point yet.
 
The only thing I'll say about the promotion is that there's no real need to take it unless we particularly need to heal this turn. My understand of best practise is to save it until the turn before we're attacked. If we get another then the double movement is worth getting sooner, but otherwise for all we know he won't see combat again until he's promoted to a rifleman. We'll always get a turn's warning of an attack (from barbs anyway), so there's no harm in putting it off.
 
I agree copper first we want the production first, and I'd lean towards woodsman for the upgrade. I tend to go that way with exploring warriors on the off chance that they accumulate enough exp to get woodsman 2 and the double move.

One thing I mentioned earlier but didn't see a response to. What do you guys think about lowering our tech rate and accumulating some gold? We know we're out producing our allies in terms of beakers, and this gap will only grow wider when the academy is finished. I feel we can still contribute a fair ammount to the alliance at a lower tech rate, while also accumulating some gold which we can use for upgrades, or for deficit research after the alliance splits up and we need to get ahead of the other half.

It's better to drop the science rate after completing a tech, than mid-tech.
 
One thing I mentioned earlier but didn't see a response to. What do you guys think about lowering our tech rate and accumulating some gold? We know we're out producing our allies in terms of beakers, and this gap will only grow wider when the academy is finished. I feel we can still contribute a fair ammount to the alliance at a lower tech rate, while also accumulating some gold which we can use for upgrades, or for deficit research after the alliance splits up and we need to get ahead of the other half.

I think it's better to finish Code of Laws at full speed, to ensure the religion (Mavericks might still nab it from us). After that, sure, save some cash. We'll need to in fact because we'll run out before we get to the next tech. I'm all for binary science myself, meaning either 0% or 100%, mostly for the flexibility to change our minds on what we're targeting.
 
First off, I checked the game and we do have iron on the plains hill.

We need to decide a few things so AlphaShard can finish this turn:

Arcturus tile improvement: Lord Parkin should mine the copper. This was worked out in a test game, and allows us to hook up metal the fastest. We need to build cottages for the scientists in Sirius to work before we mine the iron, so the copper is the best source of metal, and it gives Arcturus a good hammer tile. (As an aside to AlphaShard, and anyone else, the current plans for the next few turns are in the first post of the Micro Plan thread.)

Arcturus first build: The Micro Plan thread calls for a warrior, but as we discussed in this thread, those hammers would go to a spearman when the copper is hooked up (when the mine is done, since it is connected by a river). I would vote for an Archer until the copper is mined, and then an Axeman followed by finishing the Archer. If we build the Archer first, it would finish on turn 75, but it would take about 6 more turns for the Axeman after that. If we switch mid-build to an Axeman, he will be completed on turn 77. I think it better to get an Axeman out sooner.

Where to put Vesta: As I argued above I think the jungle hill 1S of her current position is best until the first border pop, since she can both spawnbust around Arcturus and move to defend the worker should a barb appear to the south. I think we should save the promotion until we need the healing, or have a better long term plan for her.

Longer term issues we should start thinking about:

Where to settle next: We are currently building a settler in Canopus and will build another in Sirius after the worker. This will give us settlers on turns 71 and 77. As much as I’ve argued that the horse site would be a good idea, I think the next two cities should be at site “B” (the silk tile) on Sol and the clams/pig site on Bode. The reason for this is that both those locations will have resources in place to get the cities up and running faster. In particular, since The Amazons have built the Great Wall, any city on Andromeda will be subject to barb harassment . I think we want to get an Axeman to the horse site first to spawnbust and secure the location. In contrast, we already have 2 (and soon 3) warriors on Bode to help with defense. I have not thoroughly tested this, but my current thinking is the next city should go at the B site. This would let us work the iron hill, which we are going to improve anyway, and allow us to hurry improvements with chopping.

When to revolt to Slavery/HR (and OR?): We should get Monarchy from Amazon on turn 68. I think we should delay the revolt at least until we finish CoL (turn 69), so we can assure ourselves the religion, and probably not until the first settler is in transit (turn 71). If we do found Confucianism, we should consider adopting OR relatively soon for the 25% hammer bonus to constructing buildings, of which we’ve built none to date.

City specialization: Canopus and Arcturus both seem like good production cities, and Sirius seems like a good hybrid/Bureaucracy capital. The Bode pigs/clams site could be a great person farm (which we could save for post-alliance bulbing) or a commerce site. The horse city would be a good commerce city.
 
Arcturus tile improvement: Lord Parkin should mine the copper. This was worked out in a test game, and allows us to hook up metal the fastest. We need to build cottages for the scientists in Sirius to work before we mine the iron, so the copper is the best source of metal, and it gives Arcturus a good hammer tile. (As an aside to AlphaShard, and anyone else, the current plans for the next few turns are in the first post of the Micro Plan thread.)

Sorry, I kind of reopened the debate here because a couple of things had changed - the iron, and the chance to revolt to HR+Slavery. I agree with everyone else about copper first though.

Arcturus first build: The Micro Plan thread calls for a warrior, but as we discussed in this thread, those hammers would go to a spearman when the copper is hooked up (when the mine is done, since it is connected by a river). I would vote for an Archer until the copper is mined, and then an Axeman followed by finishing the Archer. If we build the Archer first, it would finish on turn 75, but it would take about 6 more turns for the Axeman after that. If we switch mid-build to an Axeman, he will be completed on turn 77. I think it better to get an Axeman out sooner.

I think the archer on 75 is better than the axe on 77. An archer is almost as good as an axe for protecting the copper, while both are much better than the warriors we have, so a couple of turns sooner is more important to me. I don't think it likely matters much though.

Where to put Vesta: As I argued above I think the jungle hill 1S of her current position is best until the first border pop, since she can both spawnbust around Arcturus and move to defend the worker should a barb appear to the south. I think we should save the promotion until we need the healing, or have a better long term plan for her.

Sounds good.

Where to settle next: We are currently building a settler in Canopus and will build another in Sirius after the worker. This will give us settlers on turns 71 and 77. As much as I’ve argued that the horse site would be a good idea, I think the next two cities should be at site “B” (the silk tile) on Sol and the clams/pig site on Bode. The reason for this is that both those locations will have resources in place to get the cities up and running faster. In particular, since The Amazons have built the Great Wall, any city on Andromeda will be subject to barb harassment . I think we want to get an Axeman to the horse site first to spawnbust and secure the location. In contrast, we already have 2 (and soon 3) warriors on Bode to help with defense. I have not thoroughly tested this, but my current thinking is the next city should go at the B site. This would let us work the iron hill, which we are going to improve anyway, and allow us to hurry improvements with chopping.

I second all of this. I like B first more for the fact that we want more protection for the pigs/clam site than we'll have on T71.

When to revolt to Slavery/HR (and OR?): We should get Monarchy from Amazon on turn 68. I think we should delay the revolt at least until we finish CoL (turn 69), so we can assure ourselves the religion, and probably not until the first settler is in transit (turn 71). If we do found Confucianism, we should consider adopting OR relatively soon for the 25% hammer bonus to constructing buildings, of which we’ve built none to date.

T71 sounds good to me. I suggest we revolt into the following four civics in two revolts:
HR, OR, Slavery, Beaurocracy
Plus a third revolt for confucianism.

Now obviously we don't have Beaurocracy yet, so we need to decide which of the other three can wait. If we're building workers, settlers and military, then OR can wait. If we're not going to get above our happy caps anywhere anyway then HR can wait. If we have no plans to whip anywhere, then Slavery can wait.

I actually think all three of those factors are probably true, so it's a matter of which on is the most true.

City specialization: Canopus and Arcturus both seem like good production cities, and Sirius seems like a good hybrid/Bureaucracy capital. The Bode pigs/clams site could be a great person farm (which we could save for post-alliance bulbing) or a commerce site. The horse city would be a good commerce city.[/QUOTE]

Pigs/clams is about as good a production city as you'll ever get. Food resources and grass hills is perfect. I'm happy to convert it to the GP farm later on, but for the early game it's best for production. Commerce from Sirius will carry us through on its own for a long time to come, we only need to set up ther commerce cities for the long term. I think every city on Anjennida is going to be commerce, it's all good cottage land but without a lot of food resources. Canopus is something of a hybrid, I'd like to keep the cottages on the flood plains and it will be working the gold, so it's worth building commerce buildings there, but it will have a lot of production capability as well.
 
I'm finishing up the turn now that I have consensus on getting copper up first.

I would also like to get City B up first as well. I am planing on moving Enterprise along the Bode coast to reveal more land.
 
Just one thing about Enterprise; If Confucianism is founded in Arcturus, we will want Enterprise to be in position to transport the missionary to Sirius. So I'd recommend not moving it too far away. Others may thing differently.

I'm also not that keen to meet Mavericks sooner than we need to, to be honest.
 
I wasn't planing on going too far but you do bring up a good point about the Missionary.
 
I wasn't planing on going too far but you do bring up a good point about the Missionary.

If we want it back at Arcturus in time for CoL, it should turn around after the next turn.

Arcuturus founded, LP moved to copper. Pallas still healing in spot and Vesta moved 1SE....

AlphaShard, you moved Vesta toward Arcturus because you wanted to defend against barbarians. I agreed that this was prudent and spent a couple of posts arguing that we should leave the warrior next to the worker/copper, because barbs will indeed enter our cultural borders to attack the worker. And you move the warrior... away from the worker. :cry: I even specified the tile I thought would would be best:

Where to put Vesta: As I argued above I think the jungle hill 1S of her current position is best until the first border pop, since she can both spawnbust around Arcturus and move to defend the worker should a barb appear to the south. I think we should save the promotion until we need the healing, or have a better long term plan for her.

I don't know if this is really the best place for Vesta, but if you disagree can we at least discuss it before you move the warrior?

Also, you ended the turn, but didn't put anything in Arcturus build queue! I set the build to an archer. Please try to be more careful.
 
An axeman/spearman combination is better than an axeman/archer.

Also, Canopus should be a production city IMO rather than commerce or hybrid, at least until it builds Moai.
 
In particular, since The Amazons have built the Great Wall, any city on Andromeda will be subject to barb harassment .

I may be wrong, but doesn't the great wall only protect cities on the landmass that it's built on? If so, then we won't be any worse off no matter where we put our city. Of course, this only matters if they built the wall in one of their island cities. If they settled a city on the main landmass and then build the wall there, well, please disregard this post.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/wonders should have a link to the great wall.
 
If we want it back at Arcturus in time for CoL, it should turn around after the next turn.



AlphaShard, you moved Vesta toward Arcturus because you wanted to defend against barbarians. I agreed that this was prudent and spent a couple of posts arguing that we should leave the warrior next to the worker/copper, because barbs will indeed enter our cultural borders to attack the worker. And you move the warrior... away from the worker. :cry: I even specified the tile I thought would would be best:



I don't know if this is really the best place for Vesta, but if you disagree can we at least discuss it before you move the warrior?

Also, you ended the turn, but didn't put anything in Arcturus build queue! I set the build to an archer. Please try to be more careful.

I'm sorry I thought I did move the warrior correctly. :(

:eek: Why did the game give me "Press enter to end turn" without asking me to build something then? That's wierd. I've never NOT had to put something in a build queche befeore.

Also Gressh is 100% correct the barbs will not pester Amazon on whichever landmass they built the GW on. Which means the barbs will come after the rest of us.
 
An axeman/spearman combination is better than an axeman/archer.

Well, the archer is cheaper than the spearman and seems like a better long-term defender for Arcturus since it gets bonuses for defending in cities and on hills. And Arcturus has plenty of hills.

I may be wrong, but doesn't the great wall only protect cities on the landmass that it's built on? If so, then we won't be any worse off no matter where we put our city. Of course, this only matters if they built the wall in one of their island cities. If they settled a city on the main landmass and then build the wall there, well, please disregard this post.

Oh yeah, that is correct. I so infrequently play island starts, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks Greesh! I still think we should settle Bode and the B site first, but it would be nice if we don't have to worry about all the barbs heading for us.

I'm sorry I thought I did move the warrior correctly. :(

It's really not that big a deal if it was a mistake. I was just being grumpy. I suppose we can just leave Vesta where she is, since it's a good spawnbusting spot.

:eek: Why did the game give me "Press enter to end turn" without asking me to build something then? That's wierd. I've never NOT had to put something in a build queche befeore.

I'm not sure. Maybe because you logged out and then logged in after settling but before ending the turn? Regardless, it's a good idea to double check your moves/builds before ending the turn. We don't want to lose a turn of production, even if it is only one hammer at this point.
 
T71 sounds good to me. I suggest we revolt into the following four civics in two revolts:
HR, OR, Slavery, Beaurocracy
Plus a third revolt for confucianism.

Now obviously we don't have Beaurocracy yet, so we need to decide which of the other three can wait. If we're building workers, settlers and military, then OR can wait. If we're not going to get above our happy caps anywhere anyway then HR can wait. If we have no plans to whip anywhere, then Slavery can wait.

I actually think all three of those factors are probably true, so it's a matter of which on is the most true.

I think we want to whip soon, and we want to whip settlers, workers, and military. So I would vote for Slavery and HR now. We whip out units, get our cities established and grab as much of Bode as possible, and we build some units to defend the cities and use as MPs under HR to deal with whip unhappiness. Once we've spread Confucianism around and have CS, we revolt to OR/Bureaucracy.
 
I think we want to whip soon, and we want to whip settlers, workers, and military. So I would vote for Slavery and HR now. We whip out units, get our cities established and grab as much of Bode as possible, and we build some units to defend the cities and use as MPs under HR to deal with whip unhappiness. Once we've spread Confucianism around and have CS, we revolt to OR/Bureaucracy.

I agree with this since we can't change religons at the same time as Civics and we do need to start whipping. The Amazon's have been doing that for awhile now.
 
Slavery and HR now - yes please! I think I've been going through "whipdrawal" so far this game :crazyeye: OR can wait for Beauro, especially if we plan on going Civil Service next.

I'm on the fence in regards to archer + axe vs. spear + axe. Spears are a more flexible unit, but the archer would be a better overall defender for the city.

I agree with settling City 'B' next, but I don't like settling Pig + Clams until we have more workers. Way too much jungle to cut through. I'd rather see us claim the horses on Andromeda so that we 1) get another commerce city going; 2) get the strategic resource. As long as we bring an axe or two for barbs and build a chariot soonish we should be fine with defense.
 
Just to clarify: By "now" I meant on turn 71 when the settler is in transit to site B. We don't have Monarchy yet, and we don't want the anarchy before we complete CoL to nab Confucianism.
 
An axeman/spearman combination is better than an axeman/archer.

If you put them on the same tile to defend against humans then yes. If you send them in different directions to fight barbs then no - in this second case they're not really a 'combo' as much as just two units. I'd assumed we wanted to spread them out to explore and fogbust.

Spearmen aren't that great vs barbs, as barbs don't get horse units at all but they do get axemen.

Also, Canopus should be a production city IMO rather than commerce or hybrid, at least until it builds Moai.

What do you mean by this in practise though?

Do you want to farm over the cottages? Not work the gold? Or just refuse to build a library there because it's "not a commerce city", despite it being the second highest commerce generating city after Sirius for at least the next 50-100 turns?
 
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