Turn Discussion Thread

[champinoman]

I think Pottery should be next Tech actually, unless you guys think there are Horse/Copper/Iron on our grassland river tiles.

We need to find out if we have any copper in case we find neighbours when we land on the other island. We also need slavery if we are planning to whip that worker after the 2 workboats. Doing pottery first will delay the whip because the 2 workboats will finish before BW.

Now regarding skipping AH. The bonus for writing that we will miss if we skip AH comes down to 36 beakers. A library at size 6 (2 fish, 2 gold, 2 spec) will increase research by 8 beakers. So the question is, if we skip AH will we get the library up 5 turns earlier than if we research AH?

Thats terrible simple math but I know some of you here will be able to figure it out so I thought I'd ask.

Btw, If we run into a neighbour before getting AH (if we skip it) and if they have AH we receive another little bonus so that might even things out again.

However all of this is irrelevant if we don't have copper because we will need to see if we have horses.

 

[BLubmuz]

So, we have room for 3 cities, 4 with some overlap.

I guess we can delay BW but we can go for AH to open writing.
Settler at size 3?

 

[AlphaShard]

Yeah I forgot we needed Wheel first before we can even start on Pottery.

I was working with Trystero's save file and we can get a second workboat out and grow our city to level 3. We are coming up soon on our first WB being built so I want to make my vote for another WB and working the fish so our city can grow.

Yeah we're going to need BW so we can manage our Happy cap. We do need sailing to find other land to settle on as well.

 

[AlphaShard]

I've attached a file from my test game for proposed city locations. I also attached another from the actual game showing some land to the SE of our captial and I hope it doesn't take til Astro to get settlers on it.

So yeah we need to explore our coast and get some ships out ASAP.

I had settled the first city south of the river so it's a port city, the Dike will activate hammers for the river tiles.

 

[BLubmuz]

I've attached a file from my test game for proposed city locations. I also attached another from the actual game showing some land to the SE of our captial and I hope it doesn't take til Astro to get settlers on it.

So yeah we need to explore our coast and get some ships out ASAP.

I had settled the first city south of the river so it's a port city, the Dike will activate hammers for the river tiles.

Cities
I agree for the placement of city 2, maybe city 3 is better placed 1SW. We have even room for a 4th city, if we don't care much some overlapping.

The land SE of the capital is reachable by galley, since the ocean tile is covered by our culture and the tile next to it is coast (of course). What we need to discover is it it's a one-tile-island or similar or if it's a true landmass, maybe the main one.

One thing i see is that we have 2 luxuries but only one health resource (fish).
Health can be a problem and the harbor can't help much with just a single type of seafood.

About silk.
I'm all for plantations on it. Perhaps, if our worker is free enough, farm them before calendar. No cottages, whose benefits compared to a plantation arrive in the mid-game, not mentioning the need to work a poor tile until it arrives to village.

And the resource trading can be surely interesting, seen our situation. I don't think we'll wage wars with anyone we'll meet, right? Or at least not too soon.

 

[BLubmuz]

I was working with Trystero's save file and we can get a second workboat out and grow our city to level 3. We are coming up soon on our first WB being built so I want to make my vote for another WB and working the fish so our city can grow.

Completely agreed. Another WB, then worker.

 

[pindicator]

When do barb galleys start arriving?

 

[AlphaShard]

Well game speed is picking up it's our turn again! Woohoo!

Anyways Workboat has two turns to go, I can put another one in it's build list. I haven't moved warrior yet but I was thinking 1sw to clear up the last of the fog on that part of the island. Then hug the coast going either north or south.

 

[grant2004]

We need to find out if we have any copper in case we find neighbours when we land on the other island. We also need slavery if we are planning to whip that worker after the 2 workboats. Doing pottery first will delay the whip because the 2 workboats will finish before BW.

Now regarding skipping AH. The bonus for writing that we will miss if we skip AH comes down to 36 beakers. A library at size 6 (2 fish, 2 gold, 2 spec) will increase research by 8 beakers. So the question is, if we skip AH will we get the library up 5 turns earlier than if we research AH?

Thats terrible simple math but I know some of you here will be able to figure it out so I thought I'd ask.

Btw, If we run into a neighbour before getting AH (if we skip it) and if they have AH we receive another little bonus so that might even things out again.

However all of this is irrelevant if we don't have copper because we will need to see if we have horses.

If we avoid AH we save X turns but loose 36 beakers in free science because we'll research writing without an aditional pre-req. If we avoid AH we can produce our library X turns earlier, thus gaining X turns of +25% research. We will also be able to start using a scientist X turns earlier, meaning our great scientist will arrive X turns earlier as well, and will found the Academy X turns earlier, giving us X turns of +50% research.

X is equal to how long it would take us to research AH before writing minus however many extra turns we need to research writing without those additional 36 beakers.

The capital will produce 29 base beakers at size 6 if it is not running scientists, but will produce 35 if it runs two scientists. I will assume that we will run two scientists for the 17 turns necessary to prouduce our great scientist and will then return to running no scientists.

At 29 beakers per turn it will take about 5 turns to finish AH, and about 6 turns to finish writing without the additional pre-req. So X should be 3 or 4 depending on beaker overflow.

So with X=3, the worst case scenario, avoiding AH will grant us 3 turns of +25% on 29 beakers and 3 turns of +50% on 29 beakers, or 65.25 beakers. This is greater than the 36 beakers we would loose by not taking advantage of writing's pre-req, so I think we should skip AH. Do you guys agree with this analysis?

As a side note, I agree that we should trust the turnplayer to move the warrior in an inteligent manner, without having to debate each move individually. Explore the coast fully, and do it as quickly as possible.

 

[AlphaShard]

Apparently we have even MORE Silk present. With 6 silks it seems silly not to trade any of it, especially as we do need more happyness and health resources.

Spoiler :

Yeah at this point it's pretty much just one way for the warrior to go and that's to hug the coast going north.

So now we should confirm that WB will be the next build. The city will finally be able to grow if we work the fish when the first WB is done and settled on it. We'll have a Pop 3 city by the time the Second WB is done.

 

[DaveShack]

The color of that water to the SW looks kinda light, is it sea or another coast?

Might want to put the SW city on the south coast -- we should decide that after finding out which way is more likely to be a sea bridge, S or W.

Someone posted about having a stone / marble start in the Great Lighthouse thread. I wonder if that is misinformation?

If I were DaveMcW, I might put copper or iron on that hill right in the center.

 

[AlphaShard]

You have a point we have a number of bare hills that could have strategic resources.

 

[Trystero]

Well game speed is picking up it's our turn again! Woohoo!

Anyways Workboat has two turns to go, I can put another one in it's build list. I haven't moved warrior yet but I was thinking 1sw to clear up the last of the fog on that part of the island. Then hug the coast going either north or south.

I thought by the discussions so far that we were thinking of moving the warrior SW > S > SE per LP's plan. Why in the actual game did we end up moving directly S? By moving to the coast we would have revealed additional water tiles, and any potential resources thereupon.

Also, I don't really see the need to put things in the queue at this point. We only have one city. Let's leave some time for any dissenting opinions.

 

[Trystero]

I've updated the Test Save to include the newly revealed silk resource and the latest warrior move (1S).

 

[BLubmuz]

I think the warrior have to go SW to reveal all the coast.
then back north to finish to clean the fog.

We'll put our city #2 on the newly discovered silk, i think.
If there's copper in that center hill as suggested by DS, better for that city

 

[Lord Parkin]

Yeah I forgot we needed Wheel first before we can even start on Pottery.

We don't need Pottery until our Worker will actually have time to build cottages (mines/chops first), and our cities will actually have a need to work them (which may not be the case with our capital for a while... aren't we planning on going 2 Fish/2 Gold/2 Scientists? So no room for cottages.)

I've attached a file from my test game for proposed city locations. I also attached another from the actual game showing some land to the SE of our captial and I hope it doesn't take til Astro to get settlers on it.

I think we should wait for planning our island cities until the coast is revealed. We might still have more seafood out in the fog.

When do barb galleys start arriving?

Not for a while... not sure of exact date, after 2000 BC or something I think; might be when 5/6 teams have researched Sailing. Either way, hopefully it won't matter for us. If we have 1 tile of ocean sealing us off from the mainland on all sides, then barb Galleys (just like the Galleys of other teams) won't be able to enter our borders.

Someone posted about having a stone / marble start in the Great Lighthouse thread. I wonder if that is misinformation?

Misinformation, I assumed. Otherwise his team would have gone wild at him for revealing their start. It's interesting to consider what might have been done with the Marble/Stone though. Personally I wouldn't be too worried if one team got most/all of it. Sure it's powerful, but having so many wonders would make them stick out in score so much that they'd probably be a target for the rest of the game. I'd be more worried if half the teams had access to Marble/Stone and half didn't - then a an alliance of Marble/Stone civs would have quite an advantage.

Let's continue the discussion about obsolete's post here.

 

[AlphaShard]

Sorry I didn't think he was close enough to reveal more coast. Still did find more silk.

 

[Trystero]

Sorry I didn't think he was close enough to reveal more coast. Still did find more silk.

It's not a big deal, but by moving S you only revealed the one silk tile. If you went SW you would have revealed that silk tile along with more water tiles. Regardless, if we move SW next, we should reveal most of those water tiles. And I agree, let's have the warrior then move along the N coast next.

 

[Irgy]

SW was superior to S, but it doesn't matter at all. We should go SW -> SE next though to reveal most of the coast we missed. Everyone was too busy talking about other things.

After that the plan was to circle clockwise, however I suggest we move directly NE and circle anti-clockwise. It's exactly the same number of moves to reveal all the tiles we can, but we reveal the areas in the north east that we know less about sooner.

In 21 turns time when our borders pop, we can spawn-bust the entire landmass with 1 warrior if we put it in the right place. Until then we would need 2, but I don't think it's worth bothering to build the second before then at all anyway.

I'm not going to plan any cities at all until I see the seafood. We need to settle in a way that claims all of the seafood that's available and doesn't leave any land tiles unworked. This island should become our commerce centre for the game, as it will be likely to be better protected from attack than any claims we make on the main continent.

Techwise, I'd seriously consider sailing before writing (and therefore probably before AH as well), depending on the timing. Lighthouse gives us 2 food, paying for itself in 30 turns (with a 1 for 1 food to hammer conversion, generally food is better than that). Earlier galleys will give us a head-start on exploring/settling other landmasses. It depends on the timing though, if we're too busy building workers and settlers to build a lighthouse or a galley anyway then there's no point.

I was also going to suggest pottery before the wheel, but then realised the flaw in that plan...

 

[Irgy]

One other thing; we really need to decide soon what our second build is. I propose an in-thread poll between the two apparent best candidates:
1. Workboat -> Worker
2. Workboat -> Workboat -> (1 pop whip) Worker
3. Something different.

The main difference is basically:
1: 38 food, 131 hammers, 105 commerce after 27 turns
2: 54 food, 150 hammers, 71 commerce after 27 turns
This is according to my working on page 2 of the starting position thread. We're not voting on my exact micro plan (in particular we may not want to revolt to slavery at all yet under option 1), but it gives the basic idea. It's pretty much 1 for 1 commerce->hammer/food trade off, the question is which is more important for us at this stage.

My vote: 2.
I think the hammers are worth more - although I feel less strongly about it now that we know we're on an island.