Turn Discussion Thread

[HUSch]

New turn 1100 AD
CDZ and Quat research Demo and Steel in 5 turns, I think both 've enogh money to make it; so we can get steel in 6 turns.
Our towns are in schedule for dikes
Sir, Can, Arc, vega, Proc in 3, AC in 4.
The missio has arrived together with general Aldebaran, the general with mp.

The frigate Comet has arrived the peak at Anjen, We should move it any turn 2*NE and back to look additional after foreighn units, there is a Ama-cara also.

 

[Irgy]

We build HE after dikes at Vega or Arc, (Irgy we can't build it now, no 10XP-unit , so it couldn't in queue).

Ok, so what am I missing? We don't have a 10xp unit so it's not in the queue, I can understand that (that also explains why we haven't built it earlier, something I was wondering about). So, I can only guess then that there's a plan to get a 10xp unit in two of turns time somehow? What is that plan exactly?

In any case, I really think we should trade them the marble this turn, and was intending to put it to a team vote. So, let's do it. No need for a new thread, we might as well vote here.

My vote is yes, we offer marble this turn.

 

[Trystero]

Yes - give them the marble this turn.

Civics choices seem reasonable. Vassalage or Bureaucracy. No Free Speech. No Mercantilism.

When are we planning to build Oxford? I am guessing we are still building the universities?

 

[Irgy]

So, having looked in game I do definately have a better understanding of what's going on. I didn't previously realise that we (and Amazon) have now completely cleared Mavericks from that south western spoke. That's excellent. There's talk that the southern cities on that spoke are useless. What do people think then about gifting one of them to Amazon as an apology for poaching Mizra? I'm imagining the city in between Mizra and Option B, in the south, I can't remember the name nor find a screenshot though. We don't particularly get all that much out of it, but when they're choosing who to stick with out of us and CDZ in the end game it will do us good.

Another thing that's apparent is that Quatronia are doing absolutely terribly. They've got a piddlingly small empire, with next to no defenders. Do they have a massive army somewhere on the ocean or something?

If we plan it well, we would have an easier time taking them out than taking the Maverick home island, which is fairly well defended, despite Quatronia having better technology. So I finally agree with something, it's time to kick them out of the ETTT.

Well, almost time anyway. They're actually doing some research for a change, and I think it's worth waiting for them to finish Steel before actually giving them the boot. But we can start organising it now.

There's still a problem that they're quite likely to gift all of our technology to M&M when we do, but we can't do much about that. M&M are stuck on their home islands for the moment. With that massive catapult stack that Mavericks have in the middle, I suspect we need to take them out amphibiously. But we'll soon have the tech lead required to do it, we just need to get organised and really churn out some units.

 

[Irgy]

Civics:
- once built (or almost) the dikes in our core cities, sure a switch from OR to Theo. this will give us (just to remember) 5 XP units and 7XP if mounted (i think we have stables in all our core cities - if not the city which lacks them will build not-mounted)
- Representation for sure, i think
- switching to vassalage for 5-6 turns is a good idea, but our final choice must be Bureaucracy, IMO (3rd switch, on last turn of GAge) let's forget Free speech.
- If Ama will give Economics, this should be done on the final switch. Before of this i see benefits in running Merc for few turns unless Economics comes on line.
- I would like to make a pact with our "friends" to tie anyone to never switch to Emancipation. The choice is between slavery and Caste. Not sure which is best for the last switch.

Civics choices seem reasonable. Vassalage or Bureaucracy. No Free Speech. No Mercantilism.

I agree with this as well by the way. Although Trystero, you say you agree, but Blubmuz says yes to Merc (for a little while anyway) while you say no to Merc. My guess is that Mercantilism is a net loss from lost foreign trade routes even before we have the option of Free Trade. But it's hard to say. We're getting a golden age bonus on the GPP from Merc so maybe it's not so crazy. We don't want to be stuck in it when the golden age is over though. But that's 11 turns away, surely Amazon can get Economics in that time. I can ask if you like?

If we get Democracy in time to run Universal Sufferage for a while during the golden age it's worth considering as an option too. The reason being that the bonus hammer is doubled. Not sure how many towns we have but it looked like we had a reasonable number.

 

[Trystero]

Mercantilism would be far less crazy a short term choice if we were running enough specialists to justify the bonus from the additional specialist. As far as I am aware we have not been running specialists.

And at this point I am (almost) as worried about the diplomatic repercussions as the strategic ones. We should have Free Market soon, which is why I petitioned to wait for that.

And yes, finding out when Amazon will get Economics would be good.

 

[Irgy]

As far as I am aware we have not been running specialists.

Which then makes me wonder... why does everyone want to run Representation? It might actually be worth switching to a scientist or two in the appropriate cities.

And at this point I am (almost) as worried about the diplomatic repercussions as the strategic ones. We should have Free Market soon, which is why I petitioned to wait for that.

Yes that's true, all the other teams lose foreign trade routes with us as well. It won't hurt them as much, as they have other options for foreign trade between the three of them, but it's still something to consider.


And someone mentioned Oxford. I realise that a science focus doesn't help us the way it ought to in this game, but normally I'd definately have built it already by now. It might be better to build units while we're running Theocracy and possibly Vassalage during the golden age though instead.

 

[Trystero]

So, having looked in game I do definately have a better understanding of what's going on. I didn't previously realise that we (and Amazon) have now completely cleared Mavericks from that south western spoke. That's excellent. There's talk that the southern cities on that spoke are useless. What do people think then about gifting one of them to Amazon as an apology for poaching Mizra? I'm imagining the city in between Mizra and Option B, in the south, I can't remember the name nor find a screenshot though. We don't particularly get all that much out of it, but when they're choosing who to stick with out of us and CDZ in the end game it will do us good.

As I mentioned earlier, I think giving Amazon a city would be a good way to mend relations. I actually think that their choice to try to capture the marble city might have been motivated by their desire to get a source of marble which was not dependent on our whims. So I think they would specifically want the marble city (Mizra). I would imagine any offer of another city will get a long reply about brave Amazon warriors dying in a heroic attempt to capture the marble city, and thus any other city would not honor their sacrifice accordingly, yadda, yadda, yadda.... So I am guessing they want the marble. But you can offer something else and see if it flies.

Another thing that's apparent is that Quatronia are doing absolutely terribly. They've got a piddlingly small empire, with next to no defenders. Do they have a massive army somewhere on the ocean or something?

If we plan it well, we would have an easier time taking them out than taking the Maverick home island, which is fairly well defended, despite Quatronia having better technology. So I finally agree with something, it's time to kick them out of the ETTT.

Well, almost time anyway. They're actually doing some research for a change, and I think it's worth waiting for them to finish Steel before actually giving them the boot. But we can start organising it now.

I agree that they are most likely to go. Amazon does not have an NAP with them as far as I know. They have had horrible luck in battles. Their stacks are continuously getting cut down trying to take Mavericks cites. Before we do anything, though, we need to build up our military. The dikes should help greatly with that.

 

[AlphaShard]

The plan is to use our GG and attach him to our Currisar that is I tink either 6 or 9 XP at the moment and THATS how we get our 10XP unit. We should be able to do that this turn actually.

 

[Alltriia]

I finaly installed BTS. You guys mind if I take a peek?

 

[HUSch]

Irgy
we 've in 3 turn the chance to change the civics and then at the end of GA in 10 turns.
And we need the civic change in 3 turns, to build units, that is the plan. Units for fight against Mav.

Quat has at least 5 frigates (2-3 turns before) and some (I don't know how much) gallons, their homeland is better guarded than our. btw we 've also lost some armys against Mav.

Rep is better than HR, because we don't need the additional luck, Rep gives +6 netto in Sirius. We 've no GP-Farm/Town and with dikes everywhere, there is no reason for this so long we 've coastal tiles. There are a little bonus (in Rep) if we change few turns to Merka too.

 

[HUSch]

I finaly installed BTS. You guys mind if I take a peek?

You can allways look, and give us your meaning/ideas

If you are not used with PBs made clear you have (with ctrl O) the right or left mouse stopped, so you made no accidential unit-move.

 

[AlphaShard]

Go ahead Alltriia, the more input the better I think.

@Husch: I believe Quat has at least 4 Galleon's, they've been naming theres so I think we can make a record and keep track.

 

[Irgy]

Ok, so it's representation because we don't have the techs for police state nor universal sufferage basically. That's fair enough. May still be worth running a few specialists though.

As I mentioned earlier, I think giving Amazon a city would be a good way to mend relations. I actually think that their choice to try to capture the marble city might have been motivated by their desire to get a source of marble which was not dependent on our whims. So I think they would specifically want the marble city (Mizra). I would imagine any offer of another city will get a long reply about brave Amazon warriors dying in a heroic attempt to capture the marble city, and thus any other city would not honor their sacrifice accordingly, yadda, yadda, yadda.... So I am guessing they want the marble. But you can offer something else and see if it flies.

If we trade them marble, then we should keep the marble city specifically so as to get access to marble ourselves soon. Once we have two, we don't have an excuse for keeping it from them, and then they don't have an excuse for needing their own.

I agree that they are most likely to go. Amazon does not have an NAP with them as far as I know. They have had horrible luck in battles. Their stacks are continuously getting cut down trying to take Mavericks cites. Before we do anything, though, we need to build up our military. The dikes should help greatly with that.

Before we *do* anything yes, but I'm starting to agree that it's time to at least set it up diplomatically with the other teams.

 

[AlphaShard]

Question what is Mariner doing exactly? It is currently near the southern part of the newly acquired spoke toward Quat island. Should we prehaps station it nearer the Maverick island?

Also do we need to continue blockading The Mav island anymore? They don't have astronomy so they can't trade anything any more.

 

[BLubmuz]

Yes, the blockade. No need to keep it.
Without Astro, Mav island is not connected with Mer one.

Let's move our EIs in our coasts and prepare the invasion.

8 cannons, 8 rifles, 4 Cavs (one of them the super-medic) should do. More will come, but those need to be stacked.

BTW, we can build some trebs waiting for cannons. The upgrade is one of the cheapest.

Good to hear, Irgy. It's what i'm asking! We need to set up our diplo, but remember, we need a long term plan.
For now, we're doing our best, but without a big picture in mind.

 

[AlphaShard]

I actually did make a big picture general plan anyways. That we would take over the land in a counter clockwise direction. Mav --> Quat --> CDZ --> Amazon.

I suppose that's too loose a idea but it's been the general thought for awhile.

 

[Trystero]

If we trade them marble, then we should keep the marble city specifically so as to get access to marble ourselves soon. Once we have two, we don't have an excuse for keeping it from them, and then they don't have an excuse for needing their own.

This would be a good test of my assumption that they want the city for the marble, specifically, I suppose. I still think that given the choice between controlling a city with marble and getting marble from us, they would want the city.

Before we *do* anything yes, but I'm starting to agree that it's time to at least set it up diplomatically with the other teams.

Diplomatically, I think the danger here, in pushing this too fast, is that we start to look like opportunists: poaching cities, proposing attacking an alliance member down on their luck, etc. Now I realize that we need to do these things to win the game, but Amazon/CDZ might start to worry that we are getting too big and prefer to target us. Look at the current map. We control all of one spoke and half of the other two. And we are in the best position to capture another home island (we have Mavericks completely surrounded). If you were Amazon, would you want us controlling the Quatronia home island as well? This is why I am arguing strongly to make some real concession with Amazon. We need to give the impression that we are team players. I would wait for the situation with Quat to play itself out some more and let Amazon propose eliminating Quat or make the next move. In the meantime we should consolidate our position by taking the Mavs home island and building troops to cover our rear and flanks.

I guess what I am saying is that I think from Amazon's viewpoint it would be better to stop our expansion than get rid of the weakest member of the ETTA. This is why it doesn't seem likely to me that things will break down the way everyone here seems to think it will. Amazon would be in a much better position if they turned everybody else against us.

 

[AlphaShard]

I've stated the above quite awhile ago about Amazon playing it so they can dog pile "Evil doers". If they see us as the next baddy then we will be attacked.

 

[Trystero]

And to clarify my position: I want to placate Amazon with concessions now not because I think we should be allies with them until the end of the game, but to buy us time to build up our military and strengthen our position. We should prepare for the worst case scenario when the ETTA ends: everyone against us.