Turn Discussion: Turns 1-19

[wideyedwanderer]

Sommerswerd, do you think you can possibly get the exact same shot of the island except with tiles, resource yields, units, and city names turned off? It's for aesthetic purposes.

Actually, can you also remove the score? The more natural looking the better. I'd do it myself, except I don't know how to log in. XD

 

[Sommerswerd]

Sommerswerd, do you think you can possibly get the exact same shot of the island except with tiles, resource yields, units, and city names turned off? It's for aesthetic purposes.

Actually, can you also remove the score? The more natural looking the better. I'd do it myself, except I don't know how to log in. XD

OK, just this once since you said you don't know how to log in

All the info you need to log in yourself next time is in the AMAZON Team Information thread. You should try it out to make sure you know how to log in for the next time you want a screenshot.

 

[wideyedwanderer]

Thanks. It doesn't seem very hard... I just don't want to screw something up.

 

[Lord Civius]

I just don't want to screw something up.

It is easy just follow the Pitboss commandments

• Exit to main menu, not Exit to desktop
• with full screen mode off- do not close your window before exiting to main menu.

 

[SilentConfusion]

I saw that our scout was fortified in place when there was nothing left for it to explore. It can't explore anymore, but it can spawnbust for us. IIRC, barbs will start to appear after 20 turns.

Where our scout is now the tiles with yellow dots will be able to spawn barbs:

I propose that we move our scout to the X on this screenshot to reduce the tiles where barbs can spawn from 9 to 2. If our opponents have more tiles for barbs to spawn than we do they are more likely to have trouble. Our spawnbusting affects increases the chances that they will get barbs instead of us.

Also from flying camera images I think the tiles labeled C on this screenshot are coast. The blue-bordered tiles with no C in them are land. If this is right, this gives us some freedom with our second city site.

Also I am wondering if we should work the unimproved silver or the unimproved sheep this turn. Will the extra commerce for a turn shave off a turn of research (haven't done the numbers)? Will the extra hammers (and therefore faster workboat) be worth the turns it takes to grow?

 

[remake20]

I think we have the a scout there to meet any passing work boats, but I think the spawn busting might be a better idea for now.

 

[SilentConfusion]

I think we have the a scout there to meet any passing work boats, but I think the spawn busting might be a better idea for now.

The only way there will be passing workboats there is if our opponent is on that opposing land mass and settles their second city before we do. I don't think this is likely at all.

 

[damnrunner]

No way the scout will see a WB. Another team would need to build a city and get a order pop before a WB could come by. We should move the Scout.

Out pop grows next turn. I would recommend working a forest hill until we get the 2nd pasture online. But if we could shave a turn off Mining by working the silver that would also be sensible.

 

[damnrunner]

No way the scout will see a WB. Another team would need to build a city and get a order pop before a WB could come by. We should move the Scout.

Out pop grows next turn. I would recommend working a forest hill until we get the 2nd pasture online. But if we could shave a turn off Mining by working the silver that would also be sensible.

 

[mariogreymist]

Dora should definitely move to SC's X spot. The likelihood of her seeing a WB is nearly zero, the likelihood of barbs spawning absent spawnbusting is nearly 100%.

 

[Lord Civius]

I agree we should move Dora to SC's spot. We will grow next turn and there has been some discussion on what tile to work until the pasture is finished. I also have not crunched the numbers but if either one can shave off a turn or 2 then I am in favor of the one that can.

 

[SilentConfusion]

I'll do some calculations real quick. Don't play the turn in the next 20 minutes, while I do this and report back.

 

[SilentConfusion]

I'll do some calculations real quick. Don't play the turn in the next 20 minutes, while I do this and report back.

Right now we have 17/74 beakers into Mining, 2/24 stored food required to grow, and 2/30 hammers to build a workboat. Without our second citizen we have rates of 11 bpt, 3 fpt, and 2 hpt.

We are all agreed that we should work the pastured sheep tile once it is improved next turn. The only question is which unimproved tile do we work this turn.

If we work the unimproved sheep tile this turn we raise our fpt to 6. This would give us 8/24 stored food next turn. Next turn our sheep is improved. Our total food at that time will be 12, with 8 surplus. In two turns at 8 fpt, we will grow having exactly 24/24 food. This means that if we work any other tile than the unimproved sheep tile this turn, we will not grow until one turn later. This means we will have our third citizen working a tile 1 turn sooner.

From my calculations, we will get Mining in 5 turns (even though it says 6 right now) whether we work a commerce tile for 1 turn or not, so that is out of the equation.

I'd say the 1 turn earlier growth, meaning can work a plains hill forest a turn earlier will have the same result for the workboat, but will get us to size 4 sooner.

I'll do a little more microing a little later to see what tile we should work when we get to size 3.

 

[SilentConfusion]

The numbers for each turn are the numbers in the box, while the numbers in parentheses are the rates for that turn and thus will be added to the numbers in the box on the next turn. In other words the numbers in parentheses will be added in between the turns to the amount already in the box.

Working unimp'd sheep tile on turn t=18:
t=18 17/74 beakers (11 bpt); 2/24 food (6 fpt); 2/30 hammers (2 hpt) [imp'd sheep, unimp'd sheep]
t=19 28/74 beakers (12 bpt); 8/24 food (8 fpt); 4/30 hammers (2 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep]
t=20 40/74 beakers (12 bpt); 16/24 food (8 fpt); 6/30 hammers (2 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep]
[IBT]: Them will grow to size 3. This new citizen can work a 1f1h2c silver tile or a 3h plains hill forest tile.

The options from there:

1. With 3h plains hill forest tile:
t=21 52/74 beakers (12 bpt); 0/26 food (6 fpt); 8/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plans hill forest]
t=22 64/74 beakers (12 bpt); 6/26 food (6 fpt); 13/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains hill forest]
[IBT]: Mining will be researched, begin teching BW
t=23 0/179 beakers with 2 overflow (14 bpt); 12/26 food (6 fpt); 18/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains hill forest]
t=24 16/179 beakers (14 bpt); 18/26 food (6 fpt); 23/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains hill forest]
t=25 30/179 beakers (14 bpt); 24/26 food (6 fpt); 28/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains hill forest]
[IBT]: Them will grow to size 4 and a work boat will be finished
t=26 44/179 beakers; 4/28 food; 0/? hammers with 3 overflow (worker will finish mine on silver)

2. With 1f1h2c silver tile:
t=21 52/74 beakers (14 bpt); 0/26 food (7 fpt); 8/30 hammers (3 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver]
t=22 66/74 beakers (14 bpt); 7/26 food (7 fpt); 11/30 hammers (3 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver]
[IBT]: Mining researched, begin teching BW
t=23 0/179 beakers with 6 overflow (16 bpt); 14/26 food (7 fpt); 14/30 hammers (3 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver]
t=24 22/179 beakers (16 bpt); 21/26 food (7 fpt); 17/30 hammers (3 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver]
[IBT] Them will grow to size 4. Can work another 1f1h2c silver tile or plains forest hill.

The options from there:

A. With another silver tile:
t=25 38/179 beakers (18 bpt); 2/28 food (6 fpt); 20/30 hammers (4 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver, unimp'd silver]
t=26 56/179 beakers; 8/28 food; 24/30 hammers (worker will finish mine on silver)

B. With the plains forest hill:
t=25 38/179 beakers (16 bpt); 2/28 food (5 fpt); 20/30 hammers (6 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver, plains forest hill]
t=26 54/179 beakers; 7/28 food; 26/30 hammers (worker will finish mine on silver)


Summary:

1. Working two imp'd sheep and a plains forest hill until t=26:
workboat: t=26.
Mining: t=23
BW: 44/179 beakers on t=26
Them growth: size 4 on t=26; 4/28 food on t=26

2A. Working two imp'd sheep and an unimp'd silver until t=25 and working two imp'd sheep, and two unimp'd silvers until t=26:
workboat: 24/30 hammers on t=26 (will finish t=28)
Mining: t=23
BW: 56/179 beakers on t=26
Them growth: size 4 on t=25; 8/28 food on t=26

2B. Working two imp'd sheep an an unimp'd silver until t=25 and working two imp'd sheep, an unimp'd silver, and a plains forest hill until t=26:
workboat: 26/30 hammers on t=26 (will finish t=27)
Mining: t=23
BW: 54/179 beakers on t=26
Them growth: size 4 on t=25; 7/28 food on t=26

I like 2B the best. It's workboat is only 1 turn behind 1. and it has 10 more beakers and more stored food. I will check in how many turns in each scenario would BW be finished and add that info.

EDIT: I am thinking it may be possible to use a combination of plains forest hill and unimp'd silver to get an even better outcome.

What about going unimp'd silver until t=23, at which point switching to plains forest hill for t=24, t=25, and t=26.

It should look like this
t=23 0/179 beakers with 6 overflow (14 bpt); 14/26 food (6 fpt); 14/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains forest hill]
t=24 20/179 beakers (14 bpt); 20/26 food (6 fpt); 19/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains forest hill]
[IBT]: Them grows to size 4
t=25 36/179 beakers (16 bpt); 1/28 food (5 fpt); 24/30 hammers (6 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains forest hill, unimp'd silver]
[IBT]: work boat is built
t=26 52/179 beakers; 6/28 food; 0/? hammers with 0 overflow

The summary for this plan:
-Work Boat: t=26
-Mining: t=23
-BW: 52/179 on t=26
-Them growth: size 4 on t=25; 6/28 food on t=26

This is 2 fewer beakers and 1 less food than plan 2B, but the work boat is out a turn earlier than in plan 2B and Them grows 1 turn faster than in plan 1. This would seem to have the beet of both worlds: earlier growth and an earlier work boat.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I like the last plan with earlier grrowth and earlier wb the best.

 

[damnrunner]

The only question I would have is do any of the plans allow us to get BW a turn earlier? If so it may be worth a slightly slower WB or city growth. For one we can start our 1st forest chop sooner. Also switching to slavery a turn early can be advantageous in certain circumstances.

 

[SilentConfusion]

The only question I would have is do any of the plans allow us to get BW a turn earlier? If so it may be worth a slightly slower WB or city growth. For one we can start our 1st forest chop sooner. Also switching to slavery a turn early can be advantageous in certain circumstances.

All of these plans get BW on t=23. I would agree that getting BW a turn sooner is more important than getting a WB out a turn sooner, but I haven't found a way to do that. Feel free to play around with it.

EDIT: I meant Mining not BW. I see the question now. I'll extend the numbers out to the teching of BW to see if the beaker differences matter.

 

[SilentConfusion]

If I got this right (and hopefully someone is double checking this) our worker will finish improving the second silver on turn 31. He would not be able to chop until turn 33. The slowest plan gets BW on turn 32 (in time for the first chop). Only Plan 2A could get a turn 31 BW and this is with working a coast tile instead of an improved sheep tile for a turn, but I don't really think we need BW on turn 31, unless we are going to be whipping something on turn 32. If we get BW on turn 32, we can whip as soon as turn 33.

I would recommend the third plan I mentioned above (it could be called Plan 3) since it gets BW on t=32 with a turn faster Work Boat

Here is Plan 3:
(an * indicates a possible unit build)

t=18 17/74 beakers (11 bpt); 2/24 food (6 fpt); 2/30 hammers (2 hpt) [imp'd sheep, unimp'd sheep]
t=19 28/74 beakers (12 bpt); 8/24 food (8 fpt); 4/30 hammers (2 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep]
t=20 40/74 beakers (12 bpt); 16/24 food (8 fpt); 6/30 hammers (2 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep]
[IBT]: Them grows to size 3
t=21 52/74 beakers (14 bpt); 0/26 food (7 fpt); 8/30 hammers (3 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver]
t=22 66/74 beakers (14 bpt); 7/26 food (7 fpt); 11/30 hammers (3 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, unimp'd silver]
[IBT]: Mining researched, begin teching BW
t=23 0/179 beakers with 6 overflow (14 bpt); 14/26 food (6 fpt); 14/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains forest hill]
t=24 20/179 beakers (14 bpt); 20/26 food (6 fpt); 19/30 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains forest hill]
[IBT]: Them grows to size 4
t=25 36/179 beakers (16 bpt); 1/28 food (5 fpt); 24/30 hammers (6 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, plains forest hill, unimp'd silver]
[IBT]: Work Boat is built, start Warrior*
t=26 52/179 beakers (24 bpt); 6/28 food (6 fpt); 0/15 hammers with 0 overflow (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, imp'd silver, unimp'd silver]
t=27 76/179 beakers (24 bpt); 12/28 food (6 fpt); 5/15 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, imp'd silver, unimp'd silver]
t=28 100/179 beakers (24 bpt); 18/28 food (6 fpt); 10/15 hammers (5 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, imp'd silver, unimp'd silver]
[IBT]: Warrior is trained, start Warrior*
t=29 124/179 beakers (21 bpt); 24/28 food (5 fpt); 0/15 hammers with 0 overflow (7 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, imp'd silver, plains forest hill]
[IBT]: Them grows to size 5
t=30 145/179 beakers (24 bpt); 1/30 food (4 fpt); 7/15 hammers (8 hpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, imp'd silver, unimp'd silver, plains forest hill]
[IBT]: Warrior is built, start Settler*
t=31 169/179 beakers (28 bpt); 5/30 food (0 fpt); 0/120 hammers (13 hpt + 4 fpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, imp'd silver, imp'd silver, plains forest hill]
[IBT]: Bronze Working is researched
t=32 0/? beakers with 18 overflow (28 bpt); 5/30 food (0 fpt); 17/120 hammers (13 hpt + 4 fpt) [imp'd sheep, imp'd sheep, imp'd silver, imp'd silver, plains forest hill]


I can put up the numbers for other options if people want to see them.

 

[Lord Civius]

I'll await your analysis before posting my to do list for the next turn. All I'll be doing is moving Dora 1N, so micro is the only thing we need to iron out.

EDIT: Seems you finished while I was writing this post. I agree with you plan 3 is the best course of action. Any objections?

 

[SilentConfusion]

I'll await your analysis before posting my to do list for the next turn. All I'll be doing is moving Dora 1N, so micro is the only thing we need to iron out.

EDIT: Seems you finished while I was writing this post. I agree with you plan 3 is the best course of action. Any objections?

Our worker finishes a pasture this turn, so I doubt anyone will want to work any other tiles than the two improved sheep tiles. The micro only gets more hairy when we go to pop 3.

And technically we'll need a new Turn Discussion thread when we hit turn 20, although the stuff that references turns beyond turn 19 can be copy/pasted.