Turn Discussion

Despite that Sullla to all appearances never visited our forum to see what was going on, and hasn't been back since we did correct our oversight --- and it's not like we make a habit of doing this once a month or are lesser amounts of late on a daily basis --- I just don't get it why you two teams choose to do this. It's your right by the rules, I won't contest that, but I don't understand it how that fits in a casual friendly game and I never will.

I obviously don't belong here.
 
Despite that Sullla to all appearances never visited our forum to see what was going on, and hasn't been back since we did correct our oversight --- and it's not like we make a habit of doing this once a month or are lesser amounts of late on a daily basis --- I just don't get it why you two teams choose to do this. It's your right by the rules, I won't contest that, but I don't understand it how that fits in a casual friendly game and I never will.

I obviously don't belong here.
I kinda understand your position Renata, but, the game can't stay paused for ever. People will lose interest, and then the game totally falls apart. What could possibly take that long to figure out, it is just a "casual friendly" game as you stated!
 
I don't think it's the fact of you pausing, it's the reason that you're pausing that's bothering people. What seems to be some people's opinion is that pausing is for something that's more irl related, ie, "our turnplayer was abducted by aliens, we need to find a new one", rather then, "something happened that we didn't expect in-game, we need time to figure out a response to it". For them it's something along the lines of you getting surprised in a battle, and making the other general wait a couple hours while you decide your response. ;)

From my personal point of view, it's a friendly game, if you need to figure out your response, then we should give you a reasonable time to figure that out. But if really all you're trying to do is manipulate something then you need to move along and stop abusing people's trust and goodwill. Which of those that is is for the admins to decide if people suspect something.

Despite that Sullla to all appearances never visited our forum to see what was going on, and hasn't been back since we did correct our oversight
IMO that's over inflating the decision, you almost certainly haven't been watching things 24/7, and in any case he could have been invisible for what ever reason. Give the man the benefit of the doubt.

I obviously don't belong here.
Come on, that's just being a bit silly. ;) Yes, the other teams might be acting like idiots or what ever, but that doesn't mean you need to start crying too. If you're a civplayer of honor then show it by outplaying the more ruthless people out there, not by threatening to throw down your sand shovel and bucket and leave. :p

Edit: And in anycase, it's irrelevent since Oyzar unpaused the game. :)
 
Despite that Sullla to all appearances never visited our forum to see what was going on, and hasn't been back since we did correct our oversight --- and it's not like we make a habit of doing this once a month or are lesser amounts of late on a daily basis --- I just don't get it why you two teams choose to do this. It's your right by the rules, I won't contest that, but I don't understand it how that fits in a casual friendly game and I never will.

That's not true - I knew darn well why you paused the game. But I highly doubt you would have wanted me airing your reasons in the General Forum! ;) As for why I posted, I didn't say anything until a full 48 hours had passed (and that after most of the initial 24 hours had passed). If 3 days go by, and the Demogame is just sitting in limbo with no explanation whatsoever, I think that the players on the other team have a right to see it get moving again, or at the very least be given a reason why they are sitting around waiting. Look at poor HUSch, who had no idea when he would be up to play.

Personally, I detest the whole notion that teams can pause the game. There's really no reason why the game should ever be paused in the first place. If you didn't want to play on a turn timer, then you shouldn't have set up the game on Pitboss. If the turn player is unavailable, get someone else to play the turn. If something unexpected comes up, use your time to work out a reaction with the rest of the team and play on. I don't buy this whole notion of "we needed more time to discuss things." I don't buy it because I was one of the leaders of a Demogame team myself over at Apolyton, and we had no trouble playing our turns in a mere 16 hours when we were in a 3 way war (splitting a 48 hour turn timer into 16/16/16 increments). If something really big comes up, get your team members into a chat room and work out a consensus. If you can't reach consensus, the turn player or designated leader goes with what they feel is the best option. And on we go.

I don't like these pauses because they are usually an excuse to cover up weak team organization. Look at it this way: we aren't exactly flying through the turns right now. On average, it takes about 3 days for the turn to get back to each team, then they have another 24 hours to play the turn. So 96 hours to plan and play the turn - ONE TURN of a Civ game!!! :rolleyes: If you can't work out what you plan on doing in that span, I'm sorry, it's the fault of your team, not the game. Tighten up your team dynamics. I do not like the idea of pauses being used as a crutch, that is to do the sort of things that should have been planned out in advance. Do you think a real organization - a business, the military, etc. - gets to say, "Sorry, will you please pause what you're doing and wait for us? We need some more time here." :p

I will bug off and not say anything more if that is the majority wish of the teams. But I've been asked to moderate disputes multiple times before, so it seems I have an admin position in this game. And so long as I'm in that position, I will push to hold teams accountable to the turn timer. donsig's idea (getting rid of the timer altogether) is a sure recipe for disaster - you do want this game to end before 2011, right?
 
But I've been asked to moderate disputes multiple times before, so it seems I have an admin position in this game.

I did not see you moderating when we had the dispute about Sancta's tactic to change their tech after ending turn :rolleyes:

In fact it seems to me that you jump in whenever Sancta are in need of moderation!
 
Personally, I detest the whole notion that teams can pause the game.

This is quite evident by the comments you have made in this instance and elsewhere, and I for one think it is a problem. All five teams agreed to the pause rule; its proper use should not be determined by someone who despises the whole concept.
 
That's not true - I knew darn well why you paused the game. But I highly doubt you would have wanted me airing your reasons in the General Forum! ;) As for why I posted, I didn't say anything until a full 48 hours had passed (and that after most of the initial 24 hours had passed). If 3 days go by, and the Demogame is just sitting in limbo with no explanation whatsoever, I think that the players on the other team have a right to see it get moving again, or at the very least be given a reason why they are sitting around waiting. Look at poor HUSch, who had no idea when he would be up to play.

Personally, I detest the whole notion that teams can pause the game. There's really no reason why the game should ever be paused in the first place. If you didn't want to play on a turn timer, then you shouldn't have set up the game on Pitboss. If the turn player is unavailable, get someone else to play the turn. If something unexpected comes up, use your time to work out a reaction with the rest of the team and play on. I don't buy this whole notion of "we needed more time to discuss things." I don't buy it because I was one of the leaders of a Demogame team myself over at Apolyton, and we had no trouble playing our turns in a mere 16 hours when we were in a 3 way war (splitting a 48 hour turn timer into 16/16/16 increments). If something really big comes up, get your team members into a chat room and work out a consensus. If you can't reach consensus, the turn player or designated leader goes with what they feel is the best option. And on we go.

I don't like these pauses because they are usually an excuse to cover up weak team organization. Look at it this way: we aren't exactly flying through the turns right now. On average, it takes about 3 days for the turn to get back to each team, then they have another 24 hours to play the turn. So 96 hours to plan and play the turn - ONE TURN of a Civ game!!! :rolleyes: If you can't work out what you plan on doing in that span, I'm sorry, it's the fault of your team, not the game. Tighten up your team dynamics. I do not like the idea of pauses being used as a crutch, that is to do the sort of things that should have been planned out in advance. Do you think a real organization - a business, the military, etc. - gets to say, "Sorry, will you please pause what you're doing and wait for us? We need some more time here." :p

I will bug off and not say anything more if that is the majority wish of the teams. But I've been asked to moderate disputes multiple times before, so it seems I have an admin position in this game. And so long as I'm in that position, I will push to hold teams accountable to the turn timer. donsig's idea (getting rid of the timer altogether) is a sure recipe for disaster - you do want this game to end before 2011, right?

What you've written here, gives me the impression that you did not really know what was the reason. Furthermore your comments in the second and third paragraph give a wrong impression of what was going on and what caused the pause. Even if you tried to write it in a general way, it creates opinions (at least, I feel that way) that are wrong, due to mis-information.
 
I don't understand you Calis. How can that be?
Sulla can read your forum, so he must know the reason.
 
I don't understand you Calis. How can that be?
Sulla can read your forum, so he must know the reason.

You are right that he SHOULD know and even worse, actually knows. I am just saying that what he wrote here, gives a wrong impression of the facts. But it's nonsense to talk here in such mysterious words, as it would cause even more confusion. The matter is settled.
 
I did not see you moderating when we had the dispute about Sancta's tactic to change their tech after ending turn :rolleyes:

In fact it seems to me that you jump in whenever Sancta are in need of moderation!

I think you are onto something there, IS. A big conspiracy. Krill as a game admin helping out TeamRB over at Apolyton. Now Sullla as mapmaker and admin loading the dice in favor of SANCTA. Suspicious, very suspicious. :shifty:

mh
 
I think you are onto something there, IS. A big conspiracy. Krill as a game admin helping out TeamRB over at Apolyton. Now Sullla as mapmaker and admin loading the dice in favor of SANCTA. Suspicious, very suspicious. :shifty:

mh

MH I must admit that you always come clean with the facts :D

As you did in the apolyton game you come here to reveal the truth as well :goodjob:
 
Oh really now, this is ridiculous. I ask for the game to continue moving after it's been paused for 48 hours (with no explanation), and now I am accused of being in league with one of the Demogame teams? Grow up. :rolleyes:

Cavs, I am happy to state publically what you were doing in your private forum during the pause, but I seriously doubt that you want that. And yes, I stand by my comments that it was not necessary to hold the game for 4 days to deal with the situation that arose. At the very least, it could have, should have been resolved much sooner.

The situation is past, so let's please act like adults and move on now...
 
Oh really now, this is ridiculous. I ask for the game to continue moving after it's been paused for 48 hours (with no explanation), and now I am accused of being in league with one of the Demogame teams? Grow up. :rolleyes:

Cavs, I am happy to state publically what you were doing in your private forum during the pause, but I seriously doubt that you want that. And yes, I stand by my comments that it was not necessary to hold the game for 4 days to deal with the situation that arose. At the very least, it could have, should have been resolved much sooner.

The situation is past, so let's please act like adults and move on now...

:old:

Well and...:bday: Even, if it's a little bit early for that. But it's bed time now for me :)
 
Finally something more friendly to talk about... :)
Happy birthday Sulla ;)
 
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