Turn Discussion
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CharlemagneXLII
Prince
@ cavscout- Give them one more turn I think. Request ereh rO via diplo with a short explanation referring to our offer. If they don't accept, and we hear nothing else from them, then found the city next turn I guess. Also, what is the name of the great prophet? (So I can post the newspaper)
Nice work with the screenshots, interesting how the islands aren't identical. They are balanced though.
Nice work with the screenshots, interesting how the islands aren't identical. They are balanced though.
On a lighter matter: We had several "Q" related names built up by the way that won't be used all too soon, so I'm happy to choose for any of those.
Full tech on Drama makes sense I think, because if we have to go for Music we have to be on that, and if not (the alliance works something out and we research something random like Feudalism or idk) then it doesn't matter.
I'd only wait a turn or two before settling - this turn actually would probably be the last one. The deal would then become the actual settled city for their city if they wanted it.
edit: On those screenshots - thanks very much and confirms some things we'd though all along.
Fish and gold is absolutely a killer combo, goes part of the way towards explaining Sirius' GDP (it was good early and then they went for the Academy etc...) Guess it's good it wasn't corn and gold because that would probably have been a little unfair from the mapmakers, but still strong.
AMAZONs in turn got a shorter end of the stick, especially as they have deer and not another happy resource! Very interesting
I don't know why we (I) were thinking that Mavericks had settled towards Sirius. I thought Sirius was saying that before, but it appears the Mavs have founded entirely in our direction, reasons known only to them.
MERLOT is in an interesting spot, uncontested on both sides so maybe explains if they've gotten all of the best sites (food and copper and horses and so on) since CDZ obviously didn't go towards MERLOT, and neither did AMAZON.
We should check F8 and demographics one more time, but it's looking like this is it for the world really - there isn't enough total land for there to be significant post-Astro islands around much.
Full tech on Drama makes sense I think, because if we have to go for Music we have to be on that, and if not (the alliance works something out and we research something random like Feudalism or idk) then it doesn't matter.
I'd only wait a turn or two before settling - this turn actually would probably be the last one. The deal would then become the actual settled city for their city if they wanted it.
edit: On those screenshots - thanks very much and confirms some things we'd though all along.
Fish and gold is absolutely a killer combo, goes part of the way towards explaining Sirius' GDP (it was good early and then they went for the Academy etc...) Guess it's good it wasn't corn and gold because that would probably have been a little unfair from the mapmakers, but still strong.
AMAZONs in turn got a shorter end of the stick, especially as they have deer and not another happy resource! Very interesting
I don't know why we (I) were thinking that Mavericks had settled towards Sirius. I thought Sirius was saying that before, but it appears the Mavs have founded entirely in our direction, reasons known only to them.
MERLOT is in an interesting spot, uncontested on both sides so maybe explains if they've gotten all of the best sites (food and copper and horses and so on) since CDZ obviously didn't go towards MERLOT, and neither did AMAZON.
We should check F8 and demographics one more time, but it's looking like this is it for the world really - there isn't enough total land for there to be significant post-Astro islands around much.
Bowsling
Deity
Speaking, there is a Maverick workboat+ two triremes on the part of the other peninsula that we can see. Evidently, they are determined to get a workboat through, even if they send two triremes with, nullifying the point of the workboat. Anyway, we can lend CDZ a caravel or two to deal with this barbarian uprising.
The workboat is for the city they are founding around the Cosmos area, it will probably build on clams. I don't think they are trying to go anywhere else with that (though the triremes, who knows, but we should be able to crush them shortly, especially with galleons.)
We also might want to get another galley to upgrade to a galleon for that matter, before cheap galleys become obsolete.
We also might want to get another galley to upgrade to a galleon for that matter, before cheap galleys become obsolete.
CharlemagneXLII
Prince
Are we going to be upgrading any triremes? Or are we unable to due to the music race? For the next builds in Continuum I think we should go with forge -> barracks -> MACEMACEMACEMACE, with maybe some whipping on the buildings. Quatron can pop out a worker or two, and build a galley as you said Earthling after finishing the trireme. When we start on units in Continuum I think we should switch to theocracy as well for some CRII maces and bombard catapults.
cav scout
The Continuum
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- Apr 4, 2008
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CDZ has finished Literature and I can only assume they have started Music. They can't be running at 100% science because their gold is staying steady at 5
. They might be building research though.
I think we should announce to the ETTT that we will have Drama in 2 turns and Music in another 7. This might be a bit of an exaggeration as we will probably get in 8 unless we build research. The idea though is to force CDZ to tell us their Music plans and get them to think they can't beat us to the Great Artist. It they don't think they will be able to culture bomb but we will they should be much more open to a city swap. And if CDZ stays silent or says they have already started music then we make the point about how the Great Artist should be used to bulb.
Oh and our settler is still waiting with 20 hours on the clock... do we found this turn or wait?
. They might be building research though.I think we should announce to the ETTT that we will have Drama in 2 turns and Music in another 7. This might be a bit of an exaggeration as we will probably get in 8 unless we build research. The idea though is to force CDZ to tell us their Music plans and get them to think they can't beat us to the Great Artist. It they don't think they will be able to culture bomb but we will they should be much more open to a city swap. And if CDZ stays silent or says they have already started music then we make the point about how the Great Artist should be used to bulb.
Oh and our settler is still waiting with 20 hours on the clock... do we found this turn or wait?
CharlemagneXLII
Prince
Found it, methinks. We've given them more than enough time, and the PM we received indicated they were leaning towards not accepting the deal. Now this means we'll need two more settlers, one for Singularity, one for the northern location. I would advocate settling Singularity first since we've put it off for so long, and to whip the second settler (ie the one after the one we're currently building) so we can finally build something other than settlers, and to get those cities up sooner rather than later- particularly Singularity as we need another good production city.
EDIT: I suggest Anti-spam for the name of the city, or the name of a kind of anti-spam software, unless you think that sounds too aggressive.
EDIT: I suggest Anti-spam for the name of the city, or the name of a kind of anti-spam software, unless you think that sounds too aggressive.
Bowsling
Deity
I could probably play, given a reliable backup.
Google told me that Mailwasher is a good anti-spam program, we could call it that.
But then again, that seems a little over-the-top aggressive.
Google told me that Mailwasher is a good anti-spam program, we could call it that.
But then again, that seems a little over-the-top aggressive.
fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, settlers gotta settle
By the way I'm still not sure how this falls under the half-timer rule. But settling is not explicitly omitted and more to the point in a realistic sense our war with MERLOT isn't an actual war and what we do has no double-move effect anyway. It's not currently against the rules though but I think that's more of an oversight (designating settling probably should have been listed but wasn't).
Anyway this can be summed up by saying for strategy and everything I prefer to settle, and so want to do it.
I was saying already in the Sirius embassy I hope we got our discussion of techs out to the ETTT, but if not, yes, update it with this turns' info and say that we will go Drama => Music. Even if CDZ is the most stubborn and goes after Music too I think we could well beat them to it still anyway.
I would actually build the worker in Quatron now, yes that means not quite finishing the trireme yet either, I think we do 1 turn of building=> 2-pop whip. (large overflow carries us through to something else quickly too) Might as well do that before the trireme which we don't have an urgent need for now and we lose food to unhealthiness each turn otherwise, plus we get 1 extra worker turn for what that's worth.
I could see an overall transition to building more military though. Continuum could finish up its forge whip and rather than many more settlers or something (another worker could be nice but could be done else) just building the military to go conquer cities from Mavs sounds good.
By the way I'm still not sure how this falls under the half-timer rule. But settling is not explicitly omitted and more to the point in a realistic sense our war with MERLOT isn't an actual war and what we do has no double-move effect anyway. It's not currently against the rules though but I think that's more of an oversight (designating settling probably should have been listed but wasn't).
Anyway this can be summed up by saying for strategy and everything I prefer to settle, and so want to do it.
I was saying already in the Sirius embassy I hope we got our discussion of techs out to the ETTT, but if not, yes, update it with this turns' info and say that we will go Drama => Music. Even if CDZ is the most stubborn and goes after Music too I think we could well beat them to it still anyway.
I would actually build the worker in Quatron now, yes that means not quite finishing the trireme yet either, I think we do 1 turn of building=> 2-pop whip. (large overflow carries us through to something else quickly too) Might as well do that before the trireme which we don't have an urgent need for now and we lose food to unhealthiness each turn otherwise, plus we get 1 extra worker turn for what that's worth.
I could see an overall transition to building more military though. Continuum could finish up its forge whip and rather than many more settlers or something (another worker could be nice but could be done else) just building the military to go conquer cities from Mavs sounds good.
CharlemagneXLII
Prince
I've just realized that it would probably be better to build workers and settlers in Continuum, and military in Quatron, because Quatron has higher production at the same population. So, we go with your plan, Earthling, which gives us a worker, and an overflow with OR bonus into a barracks. Then we can revolution to theology if desired before completing our first mace.
Do we still want to settle the northern location, or are we content with just Singularity? That means one more settler in Continuum.
Resonance, I believe should build archers for the mainland to defend both peninsulas.
So, roughly speaking:
Continuum: settler(current) => settler (whip, with overflow to forge), worker, forge, galley
Quatron: worker(whip, finish trireme) => barracks => maces
Resonance: barracks => archers
While focusing on military, Quatron supplies offense, Continuum navy (plus workers) and Resonance defense. Singularity can fill in the gaps when it gets going.
Do we still want to settle the northern location, or are we content with just Singularity? That means one more settler in Continuum.
Resonance, I believe should build archers for the mainland to defend both peninsulas.
So, roughly speaking:
Continuum: settler(current) => settler (whip, with overflow to forge), worker, forge, galley
Quatron: worker(whip, finish trireme) => barracks => maces
Resonance: barracks => archers
While focusing on military, Quatron supplies offense, Continuum navy (plus workers) and Resonance defense. Singularity can fill in the gaps when it gets going.
As Charlemagne pointed out elsewhere CDZ announced that they were going for Feudalism which is the last announcement we had on the matter.
I'd press them publicly on that point to explain why that isn't the case?
The current friction between us and Mavs will slide into a war eventually. I propose that we build a spy. That spy should be sailed to the main Mav island on a caravel to do some recon. We need to know what we're up against so we can better balance our stack of doom and also so we can get on with building it.
RegentMan
Deity
I love it! Reflects my opinion nicely; I say settle now.While we are in Organized Religion it is beneficial to whip buildings rather than units whenever possible. The huge OR bonus on a big whip is not something to miss out on!
This isn't actually true, mathematically.
What is true is that it's beneficial to have buildings in the build que in general, instead of units, for a bonus on them versus getting the building later when we don't have OR, that much is obvious. If we had plans to build 5 things straight in a city and were leaving OR sometime, it is smart to do buildings that benefit first.
But, if we have two things we're going to build anyway and don't otherwise see a change in production, it works out mostly the same though you may get minor differences in turns worked depending on what you whipped (but that depends on external factors to just build vs. unit. An expensive unit vs. cheap building, and workers/settlers can throw things off, for instance).
Example: build galley (50 iirc, anyway if I get a cost wrong it doesn't matter for this example) and then build library (90). vs. build library and then galley
So let's say 12 hammers a turn base and then 8 after a 2-pop the whip.
We build a library, that's 15 + 15 then whip for 2 pop for 60 base hammers = 75 so that finishes the library. 12 overflow (overflow hammers get reduced to base hammers then reapplied) after the library, then 5 turns on the galley.
Building a galley, say 12 then whip for 60, yields 22 overflow = 27 on library, then 7 turns at 8 => 10 production.
After 9 turns:
Whipping building: library and galley built, 10 base hammers into next thing
Whipping galley: galley and library built, 5 base hammers into next thing
The building does come out slightly ahead in this case and it would make sense to get the library research here too, but not by too much, and part of that is me not working out other bonuses (like a forge) and actually regrowing from a whip, for instance.
The main point is that both ways you get roughly the same base hammers = hammers built each turn + hammers from whips. You do of course see a difference in what was built first at what time if that matters either way.
A better example, not of whipping, but more easily understood is forest chopping. Say you need to build a library and then the Great Library with marble. You could chop 3 forests to finish the library immediately and then by regular production work on the GL, or build the library first with no chops and then put the chops on the GL for an "extra 100%" hammers. But it's actually not anything like a massive boost that way, you get the GL at roughly the same either way, that one is easy to work out yourself.
By putting more buildings in the build queue, then yes you get more total effective hammers. But if your build queue is set, whipping the unit or building works out closer to the same, not enough to fret over I think.
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But to really discuss things at hand - I like Quatron for military I think, can't hurt. Resonance is an obvious call to just get another defender or two, it does have the barracks, and we can time whipping nicely with sharing tiles with Cygnus, who can also whip basic stuff like Granary sometime soon enough. I would settle one more city after Continuum as things stand right now, and that would be the 4th city on our island, so no need for more settlers after that though one more worker isn't going to hurt sometime down the line.
cav scout
The Continuum
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2008
- Messages
- 2,630
We have a little over 24 hours left on the clock. So far I have moved the settler to Singularity, advanced the new trireme and done standard worker/warrior moves. Haven't moved the galley or caravel yet.
I have Quatron building a worker and Continuum building research (will grow to pop 8 in 4 turns). We will tech Music in 5 turns (6 if we have Continuum build something else).
Buddishm has spread to ereh rO. Pulsar plateau is set to border pop in 3 turns. Haven't spotted any monuments in ereh rO or Or Here. CDZ's power level is increasing fast so they must be building units. They are also out of cash so they can't tech at 100%. I really think we will beat them to Music the way we have things set up now.
I have Quatron building a worker and Continuum building research (will grow to pop 8 in 4 turns). We will tech Music in 5 turns (6 if we have Continuum build something else).
Buddishm has spread to ereh rO. Pulsar plateau is set to border pop in 3 turns. Haven't spotted any monuments in ereh rO or Or Here. CDZ's power level is increasing fast so they must be building units. They are also out of cash so they can't tech at 100%. I really think we will beat them to Music the way we have things set up now.
Sounds great to stick on Music then. If research in Continuum does the trick I am satisfied with that right now, growing in pop can't really hurt either and we do have a granary. And yes, we have both higher GNP and can run 100% science so it sounds like that is the answer.
