Turns 1-20
- Thread starter Lanzelot
- Start date
templar_x
usually walks his talks
You mean, worker East?
Re Pot: if we can calculate that changes eg to my Exploration ss allows us for a 8-turn warrior and settler combo Factory, then this could Be more powerful than an early Gran. If we can Figure that out, then i'd SAy writing.
Templar_x
Re Pot: if we can calculate that changes eg to my Exploration ss allows us for a 8-turn warrior and settler combo Factory, then this could Be more powerful than an early Gran. If we can Figure that out, then i'd SAy writing.
Templar_x
I merged our current ideas into a new excel. So basically we don't build a second worker and improve the eastern tiles first. A side effect is: when improving the ivory and the river plains E-NE, we will be able to see, whether the two eastern red crosses are good city sites. (See picture.) If they are, we can use the black roads to get there in two moves. If not, we just settle one of the western red crosses. I takes 3 moves, as no roads are yet ready in the W, but both sites have access to the wheat.
Next: with the BG mined, we can run a 2warrior, 1settler combo at size 5-6 and can even lend the BG to the second town for 4 out of the 8 turns:
size 5: 5,5,5,7 = 22 shields
size 6: 7,7,7,9 = 30 shields!
I think for this we want a barracks in the capital, or what would be the use of so many reg warriors?? I've indicated this in the excel.
Now we should calculate, whether doing Pottery first might not even be as fast as going directly for Philo. What are the exact tech costs? Memento, is your Sandkasten using the exact parameters (Small, Emperor, 70% water, 4 opponents)? Then we can just use the CivAssist numbers from the Sandkasten. Can you attach your biq file, so we can keep it up to date as we discover more tiles?
Cheers, Lanzelot
Edit: in the current excel, the worker is going back W to the FP. However, if we do decide that there's a decent town location in the E, then the worker should stay in the E to improve more tiles for the second town. Then we need another worker to go W.
Next: with the BG mined, we can run a 2warrior, 1settler combo at size 5-6 and can even lend the BG to the second town for 4 out of the 8 turns:
size 5: 5,5,5,7 = 22 shields
size 6: 7,7,7,9 = 30 shields!
I think for this we want a barracks in the capital, or what would be the use of so many reg warriors?? I've indicated this in the excel.
Now we should calculate, whether doing Pottery first might not even be as fast as going directly for Philo. What are the exact tech costs? Memento, is your Sandkasten using the exact parameters (Small, Emperor, 70% water, 4 opponents)? Then we can just use the CivAssist numbers from the Sandkasten. Can you attach your biq file, so we can keep it up to date as we discover more tiles?
Cheers, Lanzelot
Edit: in the current excel, the worker is going back W to the FP. However, if we do decide that there's a decent town location in the E, then the worker should stay in the E to improve more tiles for the second town. Then we need another worker to go W.
Memento
The World is mine
i make a new one.
need some times, must install civ on this computer
need some times, must install civ on this computer
I. Larkin
Deity
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- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,413
Sure, East...
Error code correction...
But if we consider pottery Wheat may be better.
Point is that at the time we build Granary better to pass 5 fpt to another City.
Hard to make a calculations but probably research of pottery will make some critical delay in Philosophy.
Cyc said that probably we need to restart. Hopefully local map will be the same.
Memento
The World is mine
Here is the new one.
can anybode test when we research writing in all sheets?
Edit:wrong save
can anybode test when we research writing in all sheets?
Edit:wrong save
templar_x
usually walks his talks
i like that ss. now we should compare it with a granary approach. i can do that on wednesday at the earliest.
tomorrow i am out of town, giving a paper, and will return only on tuesday. i can follow and comment on the discussion on my iphone but not contribute calculations.
tuesday i will probably get my family home. not good for civ time.
details:
+ sooner or later we should build our cheap rax, but not so early. too costly. in your pattern, we could fit it in any time instead of 2 warriors.
+ speaking of them, we should not build too many of them either. after we have settled our needs for MP, and even for MP, i think we should build some archers when we learn to do so. there are barbs (are there?) and you can never be sure if the other civ on our continent does not get ideas... even reg archers should be enough against an early invasion.
+ i even would be happy to build another curragh and set the cap on wealth for the 4th turn! we might need a few to make the crossing.
+ one or two warriors could be fine for exploration. not having to produce warriors in other towns would especially be nice if we find another food bonus and want to build a granary in a town for a worker factory.
+ some time we should build like a warrior and a worker in the first part of the circle. we will see when that is appropriate. i do not feel that this is too urgent though!
+ does a new town on river and coast have the same commerce in the city center as an inland town on a river?
+ although thinking green i would still not hesitate to cut that forest next to the cap any time. what are we saving it for? if we choose this approach and want to build a granary later, it should go. we want to work every core tile asap.
templar_x
tomorrow i am out of town, giving a paper, and will return only on tuesday. i can follow and comment on the discussion on my iphone but not contribute calculations.
tuesday i will probably get my family home. not good for civ time.
details:
+ sooner or later we should build our cheap rax, but not so early. too costly. in your pattern, we could fit it in any time instead of 2 warriors.
+ speaking of them, we should not build too many of them either. after we have settled our needs for MP, and even for MP, i think we should build some archers when we learn to do so. there are barbs (are there?) and you can never be sure if the other civ on our continent does not get ideas... even reg archers should be enough against an early invasion.
+ i even would be happy to build another curragh and set the cap on wealth for the 4th turn! we might need a few to make the crossing.
+ one or two warriors could be fine for exploration. not having to produce warriors in other towns would especially be nice if we find another food bonus and want to build a granary in a town for a worker factory.
+ some time we should build like a warrior and a worker in the first part of the circle. we will see when that is appropriate. i do not feel that this is too urgent though!
+ does a new town on river and coast have the same commerce in the city center as an inland town on a river?
+ although thinking green i would still not hesitate to cut that forest next to the cap any time. what are we saving it for? if we choose this approach and want to build a granary later, it should go. we want to work every core tile asap.
templar_x
Memento
The World is mine
no.the coast town have 1 commerce more
I. Larkin
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I think "yes" because of despo penalty.
I. Larkin
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- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
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Lanzelot's ss
size works f s build beakers research worker
1 1 i fp wheat 5 1 5 5 moves to river plains 1E
2 1 i fp wheat 5 1 5 5 r
3 1 i fp wheat 5 1 5 5 r
4 1 i fp wheat+forest 5 3 5 5 i
5 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill 5 2 7 6 i
6 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill 5 2 warrior (MP) 7 6 i
7 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill 5 2 7 7 moves to ivory
8 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill+forest 5 4 7 7 r
9 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri riv plains 5 3 9 8 r
10 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri riv plains 5 3 warrior (MP) 9 9 i
11 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory 5 3 10 10 i (remember that ir completes before interturn…!)
I am afraid not. So better Irr ivory first
12 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+forest 5 5 10 10 i
13 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 moves to river plains E-NE of cap
14 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 curragh 12 12 i
15 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 i
16 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+forest 5 6 12 12 i
17 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 14 13 r (2nd river plains ready for use!)
18 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 14 13 r
19 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 14 13 moves to GL 2SE of cap
May be better to go to wheat straight?
20 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains+forest 5 7 settler (wasting 2s) 14 13 r
21 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 r
22 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 moves to FP (second town E +3)
23 4 ri fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 13 13 r or second town W +3
24 4 ri fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+forest 5 6 13 13 r +3
25 5 ri fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 (barracks?) 15 14 moves to BG +3
26
27 247 (12) or 9 beakers
28
29
30
Question: When City grows it gain extra 2 shields, but not beaker?
size works f s build beakers research worker
1 1 i fp wheat 5 1 5 5 moves to river plains 1E
2 1 i fp wheat 5 1 5 5 r
3 1 i fp wheat 5 1 5 5 r
4 1 i fp wheat+forest 5 3 5 5 i
5 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill 5 2 7 6 i
6 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill 5 2 warrior (MP) 7 6 i
7 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill 5 2 7 7 moves to ivory
8 2 i fp wheat+sugar hill+forest 5 4 7 7 r
9 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri riv plains 5 3 9 8 r
10 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri riv plains 5 3 warrior (MP) 9 9 i
11 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory 5 3 10 10 i (remember that ir completes before interturn…!)
I am afraid not. So better Irr ivory first
12 3 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+forest 5 5 10 10 i
13 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 moves to river plains E-NE of cap
14 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 curragh 12 12 i
15 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 i
16 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+forest 5 6 12 12 i
17 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 14 13 r (2nd river plains ready for use!)
18 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 14 13 r
19 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 14 13 moves to GL 2SE of cap
May be better to go to wheat straight?
20 5 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains+forest 5 7 settler (wasting 2s) 14 13 r
21 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 r
22 4 i fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 12 12 moves to FP (second town E +3)
23 4 ri fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains 5 4 13 13 r or second town W +3
24 4 ri fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+forest 5 6 13 13 r +3
25 5 ri fp wheat+sugar hill+ri ivory+ri riv plains+2nd ri riv plains 5 5 (barracks?) 15 14 moves to BG +3
26
27 247 (12) or 9 beakers
28
29
30
Question: When City grows it gain extra 2 shields, but not beaker?
Memento
The World is mine
hmmm, in my testgame i have disease in 3050bc
in this round writing?
what means this?
in this round writing?
templar_x
usually walks his talks
@ Ivan:
t11 - why do you believe it won´t finish? i saw this happen in our test game for all worker moves, so i think it should happen here as well.
t19 - i could easily be convinced to move directly there, but Lanzelot is crazy about not wasting worker moves. IF WE DO NOT LOSE A TURN ON WRITING, i am happy with either way. but if we do need those extra beakers, we should move on to the wheat.
on growth you don´t get any extra commerce, because i think commerce is calculated before food and hence before growth.
@ Memento:
disease would be a bad bad thing to happen, especially without a gran. i suffered that in the last Deity SG!
who knows the tech costs on this map?
templar_x
t11 - why do you believe it won´t finish? i saw this happen in our test game for all worker moves, so i think it should happen here as well.
t19 - i could easily be convinced to move directly there, but Lanzelot is crazy about not wasting worker moves. IF WE DO NOT LOSE A TURN ON WRITING, i am happy with either way. but if we do need those extra beakers, we should move on to the wheat.
on growth you don´t get any extra commerce, because i think commerce is calculated before food and hence before growth.
@ Memento:
disease would be a bad bad thing to happen, especially without a gran. i suffered that in the last Deity SG!
who knows the tech costs on this map?
templar_x
Memento
The World is mine
ONC 17
Techrate 200
all in the sandkaste save
Techrate 200
all in the sandkaste save
Memento
The World is mine
stop, there is an error in the sandkasten save.
i dont konw why.tech costs are to high.
in the real save writing needs 40 turns by 100%
in the sandkasten save 48 turns
Icant upload the biq file here. if anyone want it, i can send per mail
i dont konw why.tech costs are to high.
in the real save writing needs 40 turns by 100%
in the sandkasten save 48 turns
Icant upload the biq file here. if anyone want it, i can send per mail
Memento
The World is mine
we become a new save from the küche.
the old one have an error in the techtree.
the old one have an error in the techtree.
If we become a new save, with irrigated wheat or without?Anarcho said:
I. Larkin
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that mean writing 200, pottery 50. But in our "no UU" game we have have larger cost than formula gives.
Did not understand why.
Probably in new save the same mechanism causes larger cost.
I. Larkin
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Yes, but IBT it is still empty plain! We cant put Labor on it. ss assumes it, however.
I cant see how road on GL may help us in close future.
May be we consider Pottery first with forest cut for early Granary?
I can confirm this. Despo penalty takes the third away... Nevertheless we should plan as many coastal towns as possible, as we don't want to stay in Despo for long, right?!
No idea yet about the tech rate. It means +12 or +9 extra beakers from second town, depending on when we found it.
No, the irrigation will finish one turn early, and it will even finish before our own interturn, so it's like 2 turns early!! I've been using this "feature" in my PBEMs for more than a year now. We can already use the extra food, even though right-clicking on the worker still says "2 turns left".
Agree.
That's right.
Regarding on when we can work out the alternative with Pottery first: I will need tomorrow night for finishing GOTM108... So the earliest for me would be Tuesday night.
Memento
The World is mine
Seems that we have a Techrate of 180.
Worf has only see Mapsize 80x70.
He check it with Friepa
friepa said:
worf said:
Now, Worf stop the Game
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