Turns 101-120
- Thread starter Tubby Rower
- Start date
I'll just answer in this thread for sake of simplicity.
This is a situation unfortunately I didn't foresee and am a bit disappointed by. My initial reaction was to let Saber continue their blockade - they really haven't broken a rule, and as Rik said, if they want to spend those resources then we can't stop them. The problem this brings up is that if every team does this, because there is no way around it until marines (and by then teams could have fortresses/barricades, better defenders like infantry, etc.) it eliminates warfare and most team-to-team interaction for a long time to come.
Because of this I'm in favor of somehow mandating a way to make landings from sea possible (perhaps by saying that a certain X number of tiles on the mainlands must be empty). I'll see what RegentMan has to say though, too. I feel something like I proposed would still give the defender a chance to protect their borders, but if they intend on still using obsolete defenders to block landings, they'll be in bad shape. Their military will become a mix of quantity and quality, not just sheer quantity.
In the meantime, I do ask you to play the save and think about other courses of action (attacking someone else that may not have a "blockade", somehow getting Saber to be fairer, etc.). I'm sure we can work something out...
(I'll send RM a PM about this post...)
This is a situation unfortunately I didn't foresee and am a bit disappointed by. My initial reaction was to let Saber continue their blockade - they really haven't broken a rule, and as Rik said, if they want to spend those resources then we can't stop them. The problem this brings up is that if every team does this, because there is no way around it until marines (and by then teams could have fortresses/barricades, better defenders like infantry, etc.) it eliminates warfare and most team-to-team interaction for a long time to come.
Because of this I'm in favor of somehow mandating a way to make landings from sea possible (perhaps by saying that a certain X number of tiles on the mainlands must be empty). I'll see what RegentMan has to say though, too. I feel something like I proposed would still give the defender a chance to protect their borders, but if they intend on still using obsolete defenders to block landings, they'll be in bad shape. Their military will become a mix of quantity and quality, not just sheer quantity.
In the meantime, I do ask you to play the save and think about other courses of action (attacking someone else that may not have a "blockade", somehow getting Saber to be fairer, etc.). I'm sure we can work something out...
(I'll send RM a PM about this post...)
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
I read Riks response and while it is all correct it misses the point. While it is true that blocking the coast like SABER have is not a winning tactic but merely delays their death, the fact is its a tactic thats very self indulgent one.
It means it slows the normal progress of the game for everyone else leaving us with many dead turns. Sure we could go and attack some else but that is a lot of wasted turns setting up to attack Saber. On top of that attacking FREE or Council at this point is not as advantagous to us, they are further away which makes it more difficult to reenforce.
The fact is we are not professional civ players, we don't get paid to do this, we do this to have fun and enjoy ourselfs, not get frustrated by others expoiting the games mechanics in a negative, delaying manner. People we simply go and play other games and this one will die from lack of interest.
The solution is quite simple. Had someone discovered an expoit that give you a free tech by double clicksomething or whatever else mid game we would ammend the rules mid game to ban it, so why not this. The admins can come out and say we have come accross a situation we didn't expect and go about changing the rules. A lot is said about the spirit of the game and keeping the game fun so how is letting this continue in line with those principles.
Finally the fact is given the amount of units Saber has they are more than capable of defending themselfs, they should step back let us land and battle it out, if they are good enough to win then fair enough i wont complain about the result, a result either way that way more interesting then sitting around waiting.
It means it slows the normal progress of the game for everyone else leaving us with many dead turns. Sure we could go and attack some else but that is a lot of wasted turns setting up to attack Saber. On top of that attacking FREE or Council at this point is not as advantagous to us, they are further away which makes it more difficult to reenforce.
The fact is we are not professional civ players, we don't get paid to do this, we do this to have fun and enjoy ourselfs, not get frustrated by others expoiting the games mechanics in a negative, delaying manner. People we simply go and play other games and this one will die from lack of interest.
The solution is quite simple. Had someone discovered an expoit that give you a free tech by double clicksomething or whatever else mid game we would ammend the rules mid game to ban it, so why not this. The admins can come out and say we have come accross a situation we didn't expect and go about changing the rules. A lot is said about the spirit of the game and keeping the game fun so how is letting this continue in line with those principles.
Finally the fact is given the amount of units Saber has they are more than capable of defending themselfs, they should step back let us land and battle it out, if they are good enough to win then fair enough i wont complain about the result, a result either way that way more interesting then sitting around waiting.
Did you read my post right above yours, because yours is very similar to what I said. I'm just waiting for RegentMan to post before taking action.
ThERat
Deity
thanks Ginger_Ale for trying to sort this out
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
Kickbooti
Ecclesia Militans
I was off line a couple of days, I like the culture-bomb idea.
I don't understand 'auto boot' and things like that, but if we can get the tile let's bum rush them. I suppose, Wotan, you should start sending our units/ships to the island and make moves to ferry reinforcements down there too.
In the meantime I will console myself by trying to calculate how many eleite MW we can create by whacking warriors...
I don't understand 'auto boot' and things like that, but if we can get the tile let's bum rush them. I suppose, Wotan, you should start sending our units/ships to the island and make moves to ferry reinforcements down there too.
In the meantime I will console myself by trying to calculate how many eleite MW we can create by whacking warriors...
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
As far as i remember civ3 never had an autoboot. Just means their troops are in our borders. Somehow i doubt they will care
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
We definitely can't auto-boot them in civ3 - it wouldn't even be automatic and might take a turn or two to anger them enough if they were an AI.
Hello RegentMan?
ThERat
Deity
before we play the next turn, we need a decision by the admins...I would not play on otherwise
Agree, I have lost my enthusiasm for this game. maybe we should capitulate to SABER? Their geniality is so great and their skills at Civ3 outstanding so we stand no chance against them. They will kill every team by boredom. lets concede before we are utterly defeated.
RegentMan
Deity
Sorry, I did not see the debate going on here.
My intial reaction was that this blockade was a fair move. It is a feature of![[c3c]](/images/smilies/c3c.gif "Civ3 Conquests [c3c]")
(no matter how annoying) and nothing can be done.
Therefore, I don't see how we as admins can fault a team for doing something that is allowable in game and not currently against the rules.
If you were to propose an amendment to the rules, I would support a stop to the game while it is voted upon. Something to the effect of:
That way, a team is taking action against another team, not the admins forcing their hand on a tactic.
My intial reaction was that this blockade was a fair move. It is a feature of
(no matter how annoying) and nothing can be done.Therefore, I don't see how we as admins can fault a team for doing something that is allowable in game and not currently against the rules.
If you were to propose an amendment to the rules, I would support a stop to the game while it is voted upon. Something to the effect of:
That way, a team is taking action against another team, not the admins forcing their hand on a tactic.
OK, let's accept the fact then and play "slooowly" from now on. that would would give us marines in a years time or so. Victory will go to the team who has the stamina to wait for that long and still keep a straight face.
I will ask for some time in the turn tracker so we can discuss strategy.
My vote is to pull back and put units on all our coastal tiles too.
BTW: The idea to have at least one time available would require silly numbers of ships and units to be sure of being able to land too. It is not that big a change. The only thing really possible would be to give amphib capability to units... I guess this game is dead in water and should be put to sleep ASAP. Especially since it is as RegentMan says a "fair move" and I am sure none are interested in continuing a game with no action for so long. Good idea with the archipelago map but a terrible loophole due to C3C landing rules.
So do we concede to the brilliant play performed by SABER?
EDIT: Just a clarification, I am not saying the sdmins are doing a bad job or anything to that effect. The game is unfortunately not playable since we have this huge game stopper in Civ3 multiplayer games. I would actually advocate closing this game down now before more frustration is generated. the "nothing can be done" is just not good enough, we play this game to have fun, I guess that goes for all teams. This situation is not fun and I for one have lost the urge to play multiplayer Civ3. The only reasonable solution I guess would be to give e.g. Swordsmen and Medieval Infantry amphibious capabilities in future games.
I will ask for some time in the turn tracker so we can discuss strategy.
My vote is to pull back and put units on all our coastal tiles too.
BTW: The idea to have at least one time available would require silly numbers of ships and units to be sure of being able to land too. It is not that big a change. The only thing really possible would be to give amphib capability to units... I guess this game is dead in water and should be put to sleep ASAP. Especially since it is as RegentMan says a "fair move" and I am sure none are interested in continuing a game with no action for so long. Good idea with the archipelago map but a terrible loophole due to C3C landing rules.
So do we concede to the brilliant play performed by SABER?
EDIT: Just a clarification, I am not saying the sdmins are doing a bad job or anything to that effect. The game is unfortunately not playable since we have this huge game stopper in Civ3 multiplayer games. I would actually advocate closing this game down now before more frustration is generated. the "nothing can be done" is just not good enough, we play this game to have fun, I guess that goes for all teams. This situation is not fun and I for one have lost the urge to play multiplayer Civ3. The only reasonable solution I guess would be to give e.g. Swordsmen and Medieval Infantry amphibious capabilities in future games.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Would that rule not allow them to switch the said tile every round and make it impractical - to the point of near infeasibility - to land anyways?
I'd favor something much stronger and clearer, say
- Select a certain number of tiles within a X squares radius of a given location to be proposed by a team and approved by admins (say 3 tiles within the 9 shore tiles from Sugar Shack to Elisha Cuthbert, as a broad example) must be free from home troops at the end of every turn.
- Any foreign occupied territory must also abide by the above.
- Any outpost, controlled island or foreign colony of less than 9 consecutive, non-foreign shore tiles must also have one free tile at all time.
Admin approval should imvho lean towards a close-by, accessible, 1 boat-turn away set of tiles. The tiles 2NE of EC and 2SW of SS are 4 tiles away, which is standard caravel or GLH galley distance. These 2 tiles span all coastal tiles within their reach.
I'd favor something much stronger and clearer, say
- Select a certain number of tiles within a X squares radius of a given location to be proposed by a team and approved by admins (say 3 tiles within the 9 shore tiles from Sugar Shack to Elisha Cuthbert, as a broad example) must be free from home troops at the end of every turn.
- Any foreign occupied territory must also abide by the above.
- Any outpost, controlled island or foreign colony of less than 9 consecutive, non-foreign shore tiles must also have one free tile at all time.
Admin approval should imvho lean towards a close-by, accessible, 1 boat-turn away set of tiles. The tiles 2NE of EC and 2SW of SS are 4 tiles away, which is standard caravel or GLH galley distance. These 2 tiles span all coastal tiles within their reach.
Spoiler :
Emp. Killyouall
EVIL Emperor
I think we should scrap the game. Basically this tactic should not be allowed in any human vs human games, but disallowing it now is pretty gamey for us to propose because we are the ones who wanted to invade someone.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I think this would be a very valid point had we not a tidbit of frustration to vent on SABER.
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