Tweak Mod for Xtended

WOW. This is very good news. Looking foward to this. To dream about a FFH game where you can play on the largest map, with the slowest speed....

It won't be FFH. The lore kind of belongs to Kael. An FFH game without Kael would not feel right. So I have to write my own lore. A bit of a challenge, on the other hand it allows me to make sure that gameplay and lore match each other. I try to keep the feeling similar, but with a few changes.

1.) You don't play as a well known leader whom bards have praised in countless songs. You start as a leader with potential and as you develop your empire your leader also gains skills, abilities and increases his attributes similar to an RPG. The way you develop your leader will impact what options you have available in diplomacy, events, magic and on the battlefield.
2.) The world will not be an empty place at the start of the game. FFH introduced Unique Features and Lairs which is great and I intent to expand that a lot.
3.) A lot less humans and a lot more fantasy races. I am really looking forward to implement woodelves. They do not advance their society with technologies, instead they gain spiritual powers when you terraform the lands.
4.) Gods and religions will be quite different. In general gods will have a lot less influence. Kind of like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones settings.
 
What Master Sephi said sounds incredible. I'm waiting to see if I believe it!
That is smart. I am really looking forward to share a beta build with everyone who is interested in the project. There is still a lot of work to be done though.
 
All right. Thanks for introducing us to the project.

Ah okay so it has nothing to do with FFH2 and Master of Mana, it's a brand new mod for Civ IV, right?

You're getting into something very big, very ambitious. I thought you were talking about some kind of big upgrade for Master of Mana. :)

I like your project but I thought there was more than enough stuff if you want to work on Master of Mana: balancing, multiplayer improvement, AI improvement.
 
Yeah, I hope it does work out. There are good examples of a fantasy genre being successful, like the various Total War:Warhammer games. You have definitely done a lot of good work in this space so I am looking forward to what comes out of it.

I understand about not being able to share the repository. I mentioned Old World, so I suppose that is a good place to look to experiment. In the meantime, thanks for the tips about the Unity tutorials!
 
Wow, that sounds amazing Sephi. Feel free to share your progress here and keep us posted! Tbh I think it is a shame that a 20 year old mod mod of a game is still the best Fantasy 4X game on the market, so I appreciate you trying to change that :) I think your instinct with this Mod has shown that you know what the players appreciate.

The Master Of Mana is even older than Civ4 and while it has some very interesting ideas (perhaps suitable for inspiration?) it just feels too old and clunky. The bare minimum I expect is to just use my mouse to select units and have a sensible way of moving them that way.

I like the approach that you build up your leader as you play. One of the more interesting features of the C2C Civ 4 Mod. But I assume you still have only one leader for one entire game?

I am always for more fantasy races. However I am not sure that it works 100% well if the races are too vastly different to each other. (Endless Legend was somewhat like this imho). I feel like there should be something that ALL of the races really want and are willing to fight for. (e.g. wealth, magic, the greater good/evil). Otherwise I feel like "why would the wood elves even fight the merfolk people/the vampires who only dwell in cities etc. )
And in mechanical/gameplay terms I actually like thinking of "oh, I am playing as the xy which means I get to do this thing super well so let's go and do that, and I get these special units that no one else gets and special magic too". If the entire gameplay is totally different paradoxically, I feel like it can detract from the feeling of uniqueness because it feels like another game.
This might totally be a matter of preference though.

Gods playing less of a role is totally fine with me too. Althought I also appreciate the opposite approach of Dominions, where the "God" is basically a complicated leader, that calls themselves a god, which is mostly fluff really. Lot's of interesting stuff in this game, too; a shame it is so utterly stuck in the UI of the 90s and has some extremely questinable deisgn choices.

If you need people to help playtesting, or help brainstorming (?) I volunteer as a tribute :) (Sry for wall of text )
 
Sephi, does this mean you won't be updating MoM anymore?
This mod is so good and so unknown. The guild system, the religions, a lot of great ideas.
 
All right. Thanks for introducing us to the project.

Ah okay so it has nothing to do with FFH2 and Master of Mana, it's a brand new mod for Civ IV, right?

You're getting into something very big, very ambitious. I thought you were talking about some kind of big upgrade for Master of Mana. :)

I like your project but I thought there was more than enough stuff if you want to work on Master of Mana: balancing, multiplayer improvement, AI improvement.

Sorry for the confusion, the game will be stand alone. No civ code / art assets etc. So indeed a very time intensive project since I have to code everything from scratch. But it is also a big opportunity to finetune things.

Think of it as a continuation / evolvement of Master of Mana (there are too many changes to consider it an upgrade I guess).

The wildmana guardians will be back with some sweet loot.

The different yields (lumber, wood, stone, etc.) that were introduced in the first versions of master of mana are still there.

City specialization via districts and bonus resources that was introduced to master of mana after that is still there.

Epic Destiny victory condition is there, but changed a bit. Instead of civ based it is now leader based and means you can win the game by following the lore of the leader. I will also try to keep the quest conditions very open so that there are multiple ways to achieve them and the player isn't forced into a particular playstyle.

The magic system is mostly the same as the current one (introduced in Master of Mana 2.0).

I tried to change the combat system in Master of Mana 3.0 but failed to do so. It was a big letdown at the time and I abandoned Master of Mana for a while. I had worked for nearly a year on the 3.0 update but couldn't get it to work.I studied game design and tried out other games. None of them really had was I was looking for. But luckily the youtube algorithm helped me. I watched a couple videos about historic battles and the new battle system is inspired by it.

A general like Caesar or Hannibal could not micromanage his troops. The key to winning is to anticipate the battleplan of the enemy and counter it. The way to do it is to pick the correct fighting formation. The Battle of Cannae is good example.

The new battle system takes place on a separate map. In the first phase you make a battleplan and station your units accordingly. The battleplan could be something like sending swordsman to the left flank to defend against enemy horned beasts, station Knights in the center and hunters behind them to support them with poisoned weapons. In the second phase the units attack each other automatically. Unlike Caesar you do not have to watch helplessly if the enemy breaks through your left flank. All units gain abilitypoints every turn and can use them to cast abilities.

The AI does a pretty good job of using the abilities. I had a battle that I thought would be very easy, so I used a fairly defensive formation to minimize casulties. The enemy had magma demons, hell bats and mudeaters. I put Swordsman on the frontline and fire mages behind them. The magma demons are the only enemy unit that can damage my swordsman. The hellbats and mudeaters deal physical damage, but not enough to pierce through the armor from the swordsman. So I positioned the swordsman in a way that they would attack the magma demons first. After the magma demons are dead it would basically just be cleanup. That was my plan. I thought the battle was very easy and did not bother to use any abilities. I was wrong. The enemy mudeaters threw mudballs on my firemages which blinded them. My firemages were the only ranged unit I had, the melee swordsman could not attack the flying hellbats. So the hellbats were free to use their whisper of madness ability a couple of times until my whole army ran due to low morale.
 
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Yeah, I hope it does work out. There are good examples of a fantasy genre being successful, like the various Total War:Warhammer games. You have definitely done a lot of good work in this space so I am looking forward to what comes out of it.
I think Total War:Warhammer is a really good example where lore meshes well with the gamplay. Another example is the game of thrones mod for Crusader kings 2. Never played these games but heard a lot of praise about them.
 
Wow, that sounds amazing Sephi. Feel free to share your progress here and keep us posted! Tbh I think it is a shame that a 20 year old mod mod of a game is still the best Fantasy 4X game on the market, so I appreciate you trying to change that :) I think your instinct with this Mod has shown that you know what the players appreciate.
I played allmost all 4x fantasy games and most are just so disappointing. It is the biggest reason why I do the new MoM version.

I like the approach that you build up your leader as you play. One of the more interesting features of the C2C Civ 4 Mod. But I assume you still have only one leader for one entire game?
Yes you only play with one leader. It could be spiced up later. For example by introducing a civilization that is a republic/oligarchy and there are some kind of elections so you have to play a different leader every x turns. You would the ability to meddle with the elections and influence which leader you play next. And once you are powerful enough you could choose to abolish the elections and rule forever.

I am always for more fantasy races. However I am not sure that it works 100% well if the races are too vastly different to each other. (Endless Legend was somewhat like this imho). I feel like there should be something that ALL of the races really want and are willing to fight for. (e.g. wealth, magic, the greater good/evil). Otherwise I feel like "why would the wood elves even fight the merfolk people/the vampires who only dwell in cities etc. )
And in mechanical/gameplay terms I actually like thinking of "oh, I am playing as the xy which means I get to do this thing super well so let's go and do that, and I get these special units that no one else gets and special magic too". If the entire gameplay is totally different paradoxically, I feel like it can detract from the feeling of uniqueness because it feels like another game.
This might totally be a matter of preference though.
A lot of good points and definetly something to watch during beta testing. Did you every play starcraft and do you feel playing terran is a different game than playing protoss?

If you need people to help playtesting, or help brainstorming (?) I volunteer as a tribute :) (Sry for wall of text )
I will need a lot of help, that's for sure. Sadly the time for playtesting is not yet. The Milestones are like this.
1.) Prototype (DONE)
2.) A whole game can be played (DONE)
3.) Make the first 400 turns fun (DONE)
4.) Implement all core features (IN PROGRESS)
5.) Add enough content
6.) Beta testing

I value feedback from players very high and would love to get player feedback in as fast as possible. We had very successful beta programs for earlier MoM versions. I did not have time to reply to every feedback post but I read all of them and now I can use all that feedback from thousands of posts to build the next version.
 
Sephi, does this mean you won't be updating MoM anymore?
This mod is so good and so unknown. The guild system, the religions, a lot of great ideas.
I will fix bugs. Anything beyond that I cannot promise.
 
Thank you.

Could you please fix the current bug, which makes units cost 0 resources displayed, but still cost the resource cost?
Can you fix the second bug, that even without resources you can build as many units as you want? It makes the game very easy.

For me these are the two main bugs. There might be others that I don't know about.

There are some things that are unbalanced that would be nice to balance. For exemple, the AOs if far superior to other factions, due to their absolute terraforming I think. The resources you get from looting improvements are way too high when you are Raider (trait). You can get in the 2000s of herbs just by looting a plantation for exemple.
 
Thank you.

Could you please fix the current bug, which makes units cost 0 resources displayed, but still cost the resource cost?
Can you fix the second bug, that even without resources you can build as many units as you want? It makes the game very easy.

For me these are the two main bugs. There might be others that I don't know about.

There are some things that are unbalanced that would be nice to balance. For exemple, the AOs if far superior to other factions, due to their absolute terraforming I think. The resources you get from looting improvements are way too high when you are Raider (trait). You can get in the 2000s of herbs just by looting a plantation for exemple.

I have uploaded version 1.04 with these changes
  • unit resource costs fixed for gamespeeds other than standard
  • Yields gained from pillaging scale with gamespeed (lower on quicker gamespeeds)
  • Pillaging improvement yield modifier reduced from 1^2 to 1^1.7. High yield improvements give a bit less yields when pillaged.
 
Great news. Do I just need to download this one file now?

Been a while but I remember there were a few files needed last time.
 
Great news. Do I just need to download this one file now?

Been a while but I remember there were a few files needed last time.

Depends on if you have a "clean" (un-modded) install folder of the final version of Falll from Heaven II. You need that, or rather a copy of that as a basis for the modmod. If you have it only 1 file is needed to turn that fodler into Master of Mana.

/edit:
Sorry, mixed that up with Magister Modmod. Iirc Master of Mana only needs one install file.
 
Hey! Could someone please describe the steps with links how exactly the 1.04 should be installed? Please! Thanks! And I wish you good vibes and positive energy!

Edit: seems you just install it to BtS Mods folder and that is all, no need for any separate additional download.
 
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Sephi, I am so glad to see you back and tweaking MOM, and even more excited to see you make something of your own as well.

I was very active during the MOM betas, I even played with the experimental 3.0 version. I'm certainly looking forward to see what you make with your own lore.
 
Great to see you back Sephi!
And I couldn't describe how itchy I am for some quality fantasy strategy. Seems like this category is quite dead =(

Question:
- is there any way to fix this BUG with randomly spiked infinite amounts of money for random civs? it even happened to me once, but did not repeat after the reload so I have no idea what causes it
- or maybe I should avoid some certain conditions/settings/civs ?
- see the spoiler for an example(check rival best stat)
Spoiler example :
1671608016305.png


Maybe anyone here knows how to fix it? It literally ruins every single game for me. (tried both at PC and laptop with win10) and it doesn't seem like anybody else even mentions this problem
 
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