UFO: Enemy Unknown, remake by Firaxis

[Rubin]

What are the stats exactly? Just Will, HP, and... whatever these 4 numbers are?

According to Ufopedia:

Not Created Equally - Rookies will have random starting stats:

• Aim: 55-80 (normally 65)
• Movement: 11-13 (normally 12)
• Will: 25-60 (normally 40)

Hidden Potential - As a soldier is promoted, stats increase randomly:

• Aim, Movement, Will, and Health.

Reports on exact numbers vary. Some players have reported negative increases from Hidden Potential, which I find quite odd. A questionable design decision if true. However, I haven't yet tested the Second Wave options myself, because the patch is broken.

 

[Gzz]

Well , sometimes i found rookies who truly rocked , and other who.. well , sucked hard

 

[PhilBowles]

Well , sometimes i found rookies who truly rocked , and other who.. well , sucked hard

It usually seems to be my inaccurate ones who get sniper promotions... It really does make you focus more than ever on keeping the good ones alive, but as in the original you also treasure the moments the terrible ones actually do something.

Only issue I have so far is that the final four options are missing from the 'Second Wave' menu and I can't implement them:

Results Driven: A country offers less funding as its panic level increases (I'd rather have this than random funding)
High Stakes: Random rewards for stopping alien abductions
Diminishing Returns: Increased cost of satellite construction
More Than Human: The psionic gift is extremely rare

These are all optional 'would be nice' additions, but I'm not sure why I'm not seeing them - I've only completed the campaign on Normal, but it doesn't indicate that these are only unlocked if it's beaten on Classic+.

I'd also rather Total Loss (soldiers lose gear on death) was an option in standard Second Wave, not just after beating the game on Impossible.

 

[coanda]

It usually seems to be my inaccurate ones who get sniper promotions... It really does make you focus more than ever on keeping the good ones alive, but as in the original you also treasure the moments the terrible ones actually do something.

Only issue I have so far is that the final four options are missing from the 'Second Wave' menu and I can't implement them:

Results Driven: A country offers less funding as its panic level increases (I'd rather have this than random funding)
High Stakes: Random rewards for stopping alien abductions
Diminishing Returns: Increased cost of satellite construction
More Than Human: The psionic gift is extremely rare

These are all optional 'would be nice' additions, but I'm not sure why I'm not seeing them - I've only completed the campaign on Normal, but it doesn't indicate that these are only unlocked if it's beaten on Classic+.

I'd also rather Total Loss (soldiers lose gear on death) was an option in standard Second Wave, not just after beating the game on Impossible.

The four you listed all require beating it on Classic+. Total Loss, War Weariness, E-115, and Alternate Sources require beating it on Impossible.

 

[Rub'Rum]

I just hired 6 guys because one of my two assaults died and I wanted more. All 6 turned up in the barracks and were snipers.

 

[sirtommygunn]

I just hired 6 guys because one of my two assaults died and I wanted more. All 6 turned up in the barracks and were snipers.

Try hiring them one at a time; new recruits (for me at least) are almost all the same 1 or 2 class(es) per bunch.

 

[sherbz]

According to Ufopedia:

Not Created Equally - Rookies will have random starting stats:

• Aim: 55-80 (normally 65)
• Movement: 11-13 (normally 12)
• Will: 25-60 (normally 40)

Hidden Potential - As a soldier is promoted, stats increase randomly:

• Aim, Movement, Will, and Health.

Reports on exact numbers vary. Some players have reported negative increases from Hidden Potential, which I find quite odd. A questionable design decision if true. However, I haven't yet tested the Second Wave options myself, because the patch is broken.

That might be because when the players checked they were looking at their soldier when wounded and the option to reduce stats when wounded is turned on.

 

[sherbz]

After trying the second wave options, I think I prefer the game as it is. It becomes incredibly difficult i think especially with options like "absolutely critical", because at the beginning, if your flanked soldier is hit, then he/she is almost always killed.

I finally completed my classic iron man game after a number of failed attempts. I was really pleased with it as well because it included me losing 4 missions along with all of my soldiers. If you roll a bomb disposal mission when there are 22 (approx) thin men that can be a significant problem, regardless of whether you have decent soldiers or not.

Tried to start a game on impossible and after getting pasted 3 times in the first month, i dont think i will bother. I shall now spend my time eagerly anticipating the first major addition/expansion.

 

[sherbz]

Here is a possible scenario, which follows on from the end of the game. Its a bit rambling, but if it is the storyline for the expansion then this post gives me the authority to brag :

Spoiler :

When you first use the Gollop machine, the Ethereal says: "At last you have succeeded where we had failed". Then when on the temple ship it takes you through all the aliens and failed attempts at harnessing the psionic gift. Its not beyond reason that the alien invasion was sparked in an effort to find a species which could harness the power of psionics, namely humans. The victory on the temple ship was only made possible by a human psionic, who blasted the ship apart in space, which sends off alien rays of some description, which will awaken a new form/type of alien, possibly underwater. Sound possible?

 

[PhilBowles]

That might be because when the players checked they were looking at their soldier when wounded and the option to reduce stats when wounded is turned on.

That only affects stats during that mission. The only time your soldier should lose permanent stats is if he's critically wounded, in which case he suffers a permanent loss of Will - same as in vanilla.

 

[Rubin]

[...]
Reports on exact numbers vary. Some players have reported negative increases from Hidden Potential, which I find quite odd. A questionable design decision if true. However, I haven't yet tested the Second Wave options myself, because the patch is broken.

That might be because when the players checked they were looking at their soldier when wounded and the option to reduce stats when wounded is turned on.

That only affects stats during that mission. The only time your soldier should lose permanent stats is if he's critically wounded, in which case he suffers a permanent loss of Will - same as in vanilla.

That has been my assumption, PhilBowles (and still is). I'm hoping we're getting some exact numbers on the randomness; player reports on the official forum tend to be unreliable In a single player game, I like the idea of being able to be rewarded super soldiers for your efforts. It's a powerful sense of accomplishment, and all the more devastating should they get killed. As I've previously pointed out, this isn't really possible in the original (unless you abuse the save-reload system), although I certainly fell to the illusion that is was possible.

---

One of the "hot issues" currently is the teleport bug, that the patch apparantly made worse somehow. In relation to the bug, forum poster Hamsterminator unveiled this strange line-of-sight behavior:


Link to video.

This seems a consequence of the, in my oppinion, awkward and poorly designed spawn/patrol system for the AI units. Sadly, it's a feature core mechanic, and I struggle to understand just why Firaxis designed the tactical game like this. The system has two detrimental implications. Firstly, the player can experience AI movement as teleporting. In some instances this is intended by design, and in some instances it seemingly becomes corrupt and bugged. The AI doesn't react to the player unless the spawn is activated; and activation is determined by player line-of-sight. Secondly, there is no real "Alien vs. Human" battlefield in the sense of two teams fighting against each other. There is only a single team (the player) advancing through spawn points (be they mobile or stationary).

Unless an alien is activated, the player determines what the AI can see. I really don't get it, and it certainly feels very, uhm, artificial... and dumbed down (there, I said it). Am I alone here? In Firaxis' defense Mr Solomon has hinted at the game being somewhat rushed regarding design (PC Gamer):

A lot of that, frankly, if I can be entirely honest, is probably my fault. My design came together so late that a lot of things… We spent a lot of engineering time at the end just on getting the game completed and out there.

 

[GrayingGamer]

It's one of the major steps back from the original game. You really put it perfectly, "Secondly, there is no real "Alien vs. Human" battlefield in the sense of two teams fighting against each other. There is only a single team (the player) advancing through spawn points (be they mobile or stationary)."

The ridiculously limited sight-distance that the player suffers from is also due to this system. Can't have players seeing across the whole map and activating the entire enemy team.

 

[PhilBowles]

It's one of the major steps back from the original game. You really put it perfectly, "Secondly, there is no real "Alien vs. Human" battlefield in the sense of two teams fighting against each other. There is only a single team (the player) advancing through spawn points (be they mobile or stationary)."

Actually, it's almost exactly like the original game. I've heard that players intentionally skipped early turns to get to turn 20, because for some reason the game was designed so that only after turn 20 would the aliens actually go looking for you rather than carrying on their standard patrols. If you were actively hunting aliens yourself from the start, the missions never even reached turn 20.

I'd prefer the aliens to be more active, and to move even if not spotted - in fact in vanilla on Classic they did so and would actively move to approach me. Since the patch I'm experiencing what others have reported, with aliens just sitting there. And they have to actually spot you - if you shoot them but they can't see you, they will often still sit there dumbly.

In my last mission a trio of Mutons appeared lined up behind a car. I sniped one of them for 4, and at some point in the turn the car was set on fire. The Mutons just stood there as it exploded (even though they had the 'spotted' animation in their turn); the wounded one died and the other two just stood there. They didn't move or fire during the rest of the mission. Though that may have been a bug rather than usual AI behaviour.

The ridiculously limited sight-distance that the player suffers from is also due to this system. Can't have players seeing across the whole map and activating the entire enemy team.

The sight distance is limited, but the maps are smaller (and also filled with more cover objects and terrain than the original game's). Smaller sight lines promotes more tactical play - even if AI behaviour was better-designed lines of sight should remain as they are.

 

[Rub'Rum]

The sight distance is limited, but the maps are smaller (and also filled with more cover objects and terrain than the original game's). Smaller sight lines promotes more tactical play - even if AI behaviour was better-designed lines of sight should remain as they are.

I'm never able to answer the question "will my guy see the enemy that is right there if I move him in this position?". I'm always wrong. Most common complaint I have in my head is "ARE YOU SERIOUS YOU CAN'T SEE HIM?". And then of course you lost your action going there and you can't move one to the left or the right to correct it and shoot.

 

[GrayingGamer]

Actually, it's almost exactly like the original game.

I'll admit that I'm operating on very distant memory here, but one of the fundamental differences I noted after a full playthrough of this game was simply the impression that I wasn't at risk until I 'activated' the alien units by finding them.

I DON'T remember it being this way in the original.

In the original, if you left your guys in bad positions, aliens you had never seen, that you didn't even know were there, would simply blow them away during their turn if they had the opportunity.

So you at least had the impression that the enemy team was active, unlike in this iteration where you really are just hunting from alien-encounter to alien-encounter (And indeed, one of the risky tactical moves you can make in the current iteration is rushing forward to kill whatever aliens you just activated, because you risk activating even more).

edit: and I realize that some of the alien squads do patrol, but it definitely wasn't enough to change the above impression.

 

[sirtommygunn]

I'll admit that I'm operating on very distant memory here, but one of the fundamental differences I noted after a full playthrough of this game was simply the impression that I wasn't at risk until I 'activated' the alien units by finding them.

I DON'T remember it being this way in the original.

In the original, if you left your guys in bad positions, aliens you had never seen, that you didn't even know were there, would simply blow them away during their turn if they had the opportunity.

So you at least had the impression that the enemy team was active, unlike in this iteration where you really are just hunting from alien-encounter to alien-encounter (And indeed, one of the risky tactical moves you can make in the current iteration is rushing forward to kill whatever aliens you just activated, because you risk activating even more).

edit: and I realize that some of the alien squads do patrol, but it definitely wasn't enough to change the above impression.

I think a lot of it is just that the aliens will never get the first shot on you, making engagements terribly one-sided if you exploit it enough. Although they weren't terribly mobile in the original, they'd at least shoot at you if they had line of sight, even if you didn't. Combined with aliens just having longer sight ranges, and it made it at least feel like the aliens were somewhat active, even though they definitely weren't.

 

[sherbz]

I think this is a valid observation of the game. Of course, if it were to be changed, I think a significant amount of rebalancing would need to be addressed. If aliens were to actually hunt you, then this would pose a significant degree of extra challenge to the player, especially as the maps are so small. The activation method helps to mitigate this. On some of the maps though, you could quite quickly discover that you have 10+ aliens surrounding you. Maybe a compromise would be to have some types of aliens that are free to roam, and some that don’t. Or to have aliens that only patrol a very narrow area, but are able to take shots at your troops the moment they spot them.

 

[Rubin]

I think this is a valid observation of the game. Of course, if it were to be changed, I think a significant amount of rebalancing would need to be addressed. If aliens were to actually hunt you, then this would pose a significant degree of extra challenge to the player, especially as the maps are so small. The activation method helps to mitigate this. On some of the maps though, you could quite quickly discover that you have 10+ aliens surrounding you. Maybe a compromise would be to have some types of aliens that are free to roam, and some that don’t. Or to have aliens that only patrol a very narrow area, but are able to take shots at your troops the moment they spot them.

Good post If aliens were to hunt you down, I can imagine the two small construction site maps becoming an absolute nightmare! XCOM forces wouldn't stand a chance unless the amount of aliens present were reduced significantly. And even if a significant amount of rebalancing were done, I think the result would be worse than the current design. With larger maps it wouldn't be so terrifying, but the missions risk becoming an overwatch drag; killing the pace of the game. Oh, and you'd have no incentive to explore the maps at all.

The only sensible instance of aliens actively hunting you would be during the nonexistent XCOM base invasions.

The aliens feel a little more active and actually present during terror missions--hunting down civilians.

I think a lot of it is just that the aliens will never get the first shot on you, making engagements terribly one-sided if you exploit it enough. Although they weren't terribly mobile in the original, they'd at least shoot at you if they had line of sight, even if you didn't. Combined with aliens just having longer sight ranges, and it made it at least feel like the aliens were somewhat active, even though they definitely weren't.

I think you are right, and I think line-of-sight is a key issue. Aside from the line-of-sight bugs, there are a few problems: Unless activated, the aliens rely on the player's line-of-sight. Dormant spawns don't have any line-of-sight at all! This means one-sided engagements and no scary shots from within the fog-of-war. You also need mutual line-of-sight for every shot with two exceptions: Hunker Down and Squad Sight snipers (I'm disregarding Sectopods).

Taken together, I'll revise my critique.

Consider aliens having their own line-of-sight, and units being able to shoot (with a penalty, of course) at any enemies spotted outside the shooter's line-of-sight--provided there being no obstacles (e.g. walls). Add range penalties for both sides similar to the shotgun-type weapons depending on the effective range, and fix or improve the teleport pathing of patrols. I think this may improve the "Aliens vs. Humans" battlefield experience, and advancing through spawn points may not be so bad after all.

Sure, your squad will potentially be pinned down and fighting more aliens at once, but the aliens within the fog-of-war suffer severe aim penalties. And if the game becomes too easy with Squad Sight snipers, how about some anti-sniper Alloy Cannon Floaters?

 

[PhilBowles]

I'm never able to answer the question "will my guy see the enemy that is right there if I move him in this position?". I'm always wrong. Most common complaint I have in my head is "ARE YOU SERIOUS YOU CAN'T SEE HIM?". And then of course you lost your action going there and you can't move one to the left or the right to correct it and shoot.

There's a documented bug with the way line of sight works (mostly relating to flanking, with people showing screenshots of clear flanking which does not trigger the flanking bonus), but that's not because of restricted visibility; it can happen when you're right on top of the alien. The bad camera controls don't make life easier, since it's difficult to tell whether there are genuine obstructions that will prevent you seeing the alien.

Usually if I move to a vantage point and can't see the alien, I stay where I am on overwatch or reposition to try to flank it next turn. I have got used to the system so I can now mostly predict what I can see where (and more importantly when the aliens can't see me).

I'll admit that I'm operating on very distant memory here, but one of the fundamental differences I noted after a full playthrough of this game was simply the impression that I wasn't at risk until I 'activated' the alien units by finding them.

I DON'T remember it being this way in the original.

In the original, if you left your guys in bad positions, aliens you had never seen, that you didn't even know were there, would simply blow them away during their turn if they had the opportunity.

So you at least had the impression that the enemy team was active, unlike in this iteration where you really are just hunting from alien-encounter to alien-encounter (And indeed, one of the risky tactical moves you can make in the current iteration is rushing forward to kill whatever aliens you just activated, because you risk activating even more).

I played the original a lot shortly before the new game came out. I think the difference is just in where the aliens spawn - the aliens could spawn right on top of the Skyranger in the original, or in the buildings nearby, which very rarely happens in the new game (the one time it did was one of my most fulfilling missions, having to pop smoke straight off the bat and engaged in a firefight with a large number of Mutons). Also of course nearly unlimited line of sight in daytime missions in the original meant the aliens could shoot you from halfway across the map. But alien behaviour wasn't that different, and you always had the overly predictable patrols in the UFO (I'll wait here since the alien will come out of the door in a turn or two), or the aliens that were in a building and would sit there indefinitely.

I've heard of something called the 'overwatch freeze bug'; I think the aliens tend to be less active if you're on overwatch, even if they don't know where you are, and quite often I have people on overwatch before running into the aliens.

 

[coanda]

I've heard of something called the 'overwatch freeze bug'; I think the aliens tend to be less active if you're on overwatch, even if they don't know where you are, and quite often I have people on overwatch before running into the aliens.

The Overwatch freeze bug is exactly as follows:

If an alien feels it is in an untenable position from which it must fall back, it will not consider any actions other than moving. If they see one of your guys in Overwatch, they will not move. The two combined mean if you put an alien in what it sees as a "hopeless" situation, they just lock up and do nothing. Once you've got them frozen, you can safely keep overwatching with one guy and taking a shot with the others until you get lucky, even if it takes you a hundred turns to do so.

The easiest way to do this is to have one soldier sprint to a flanking position on the alien, and another soldier enter overwatch. It's ridiculously powerful and rather silly, which is why players tend to view it as an exploit rather than smart tactics.