UFO: Enemy Unknown, remake by Firaxis

[DaviddesJ]

Well, you've got to expect in a game with "Normal" and "Classic" difficulty, that "Normal" will be way too easy for anyone who considers themselves a gamer.

 

[Camikaze]

-Heavies need a balancing pass I think. Early in the game they are fine but late in the game their marksmanship is terrible, the only reason they are worth bringing along is because every so often a rocket is exactly what you need to save your ass, but in any mission where you don't end up needing the rocket (most of them late game) they are dead weight.

Add a SCOPE and their aim is about the same as an Assault. Plus you'll have two shots. Two shots with 60% chance are as good as one shot with 84% chance.

 

[Rubin]

So I just finished my first game of this, moving on to Classic, hopefully it will be more challenging than normal which after the first 5 or so missions I steamrolled the rest of the game. Some thoughts:

-Ghost armor. What the hell. Who exactly tested this and said "YEP, TOTALLY BALANCED AND NOT AT ALL BROKEN!" Because they need to be fired ASAP. Ghost armor is RIDICULOUS.

-Heavies need a balancing pass I think. Early in the game they are fine but late in the game their marksmanship is terrible, the only reason they are worth bringing along is because every so often a rocket is exactly what you need to save your ass, but in any mission where you don't end up needing the rocket (most of them late game) they are dead weight.

-Assaults maybe need a nerf, an assault with ghost armor is BASICALLY a one man wrecking crew. Got a mob that absolutely, positively cannot be allowed to act next turn? Stealth, run & gun, double crit shot to the face. Done and done.

-Supports are probably the most balanced class in the game skills wise. With every promotion the skill choice actually seems like a choice. The other classes have a lot of "choices" where one is pretty clearly better than the other.

And now a question if anyone knows. When testing people for psi ability, is whether or not they have the gift determined when the character is rolled or is it dependant on current stats? Seems like when I was testing my guys that had some levels (and therefore some Will) I got quite a number of positives, but as soon as I started testing squadies I never saw another psi soldier again. Do I need to wait to test guys until they have leveled up enough to gain some Will or is it all predetermined when they are created and I just got incredibly unlucky with them?

From my experience, psi ability is rolled during or at the end of testing. In every game, I think, I had at least one gifted soldier from the first test. Subsequent tests rarely show any success--to the point where I get the impression that the game settles on maybe 3-4 gifted soldiers and then reduces the chance of success to zero. The stats of the test soldiers didn't seem to have any impact on the results. This is all according to my experience, and may not be actual facts about the game.

I agree on almost all of your observations The game kinda steers you away from a brute force approach with heavy armor, which helps Ghost Armor becoming so overpowered. If the medikit has unlimited charges--for example with a 2-3 turn cooldown--then you can apply more varied tactics. Currently, it's very costly to have your soldiers injured, both in terms of having your soldiers survive a longer mission as well as the recovery time after the mission.

I also realize that I really dislike the general mechanic of limited charges on abilities (1 rocket, 1 grenade, etc.). Put those abilities on cooldowns (just like Double Tap, Run & Gun, etc.) or have the charges cost credits (e.g. 35 credits for an extra rocket and 15 credits for an extra grenade)--or both. I'd like for the game to open up and be less restricted.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Add a SCOPE and their aim is about the same as an Assault. Plus you'll have two shots. Two shots with 60% chance are as good as one shot with 84% chance.

Great, I can take up their one and only precious item slot to make them as good as an assault, except they can't run and gun or fire twice after moving or have Lightning Reflexes. Or I could just, you know, take another assault and give him an item that is actually useful , or something .

Heat ammo is pretty good though but I almost never got to leverage it since my heavies rarely hit the mechanical enemies that I faced.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Well, two shots with 60% chance is a lot better than one shot with 84%, because sometimes both shots hit.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Agreed, except he was comparing it to an assault, which with your numbers would be capable of doing two shots at 74% chance in this scenario, plus the assault could do it after spending both of his actions dashing. Plus in my (limited so far, admittedly) experience, heavies almost never get to attack twice in one round because you almost always have to spend their first action moving them closer just so they can get above 30 or 40 percent to hit.

I'm hoping on the higher difficulties Suppression will be needed more so that heavies will have a reason to exist, the only reason I took one into the final battle with me at all was because she was the one who had used the device so she was forced into the party.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I don't understand why people value Assaults so much. Even with Ghost Armor, needing to get really close to finish an enemy is just asking to reveal even more enemies that would kill your Assault (and maybe even other members).

 

[sherbz]

I think heavies are actually very useful. They are your get out jail free card (rockets), and they are lethal to robotic units. 1 Rocket will kill all of the drones surrounding a cyber disk or sectopod and do a substantial amount of damage to boot when you have heat ammo. Bullet swarm is a decent perk. You can fire twice, and on a high level heavy, you often have +50% to hit. Suppression is, I think, more useful than shredder rocket (but not on normal or lower difficulty). Your heavy has poor to hit percentages, but that doesn’t matter at all if you suppress. They are useful for keeping 1 or more units out of action, because often the computer will just skip its go when suppressed (not really sure why it does this). I also think they are probably the easiest of the classes to level up along with the sniper.

As for assaults, they are a bit of a double edged sword. They are great at killing aliens, but less valuable than other classes because their most useful perk is also the first one they get, so they are more expendable than, say, supports, whose most useful perk is the 3rd one.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I don't understand why people value Assaults so much. Even with Ghost Armor, needing to get really close to finish an enemy is just asking to reveal even more enemies that would kill your Assault (and maybe even other members).

They don't need to get close. They can still use assault rifles and the upgraded versions to attack a flanked enemy.

As for assaults, they are a bit of a double edged sword. They are great at killing aliens, but less valuable than other classes because their most useful perk is also the first one they get, so they are more expendable than, say, supports, whose most useful perk is the 3rd one.

Rund&Gun is probably the best starting ability, but lightning reflexes, rapid fire and close combat specialist ar pretty sweet too. You can trigger overwatch and force an enemy to waste his reaction shot before repositioning another trooper, and you can shoot a berserker three times during single turn.

 

[Rubin]

According to this article the Slingshot DLC is available on December 4th. I find it strange that the official forum has no official mention of this. Actually, there has been very, very little official communication entirely. Odd, because the game definitely deserves better!

I'm undecided on whether to get this DLC pack or not. If I buy it, it'll be for the cosmetic stuff only. It's good fun to customize the soldiers' appearance. Hopefully there'll be a bug fixing patch to go with the DLC as well. I'm guessing no balance patch until next year, and I'm hoping we'll see some improvement in the official communication.

I've been reading up on a lot of critique and reviews of the game. There seems to be consensus on great tactical gameplay and poor strategic gameplay, and this shows that the XCOM community isn't as divided as one could fear. Especially considering fans of the original versus players new to the game, as well as PC versus console players. Of course, there's a lot of personal preference, but I also believe most of this can be disregarded when considering the direction of further development of the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see changes regarding soldier voice packs and skill tree balancing, and I'd be excited to be able to expand the following list:

• Time-Units: XCOM has convinced me that TUs are bad. The new 2-action system is superior in any way I can think of. Gameplay flows better. I don't have to worry about saving TUs, and consequently I can position my soldiers much faster. I'm not inclined to force myself into the slow and careful tedium of the original--a playstyle that made most missions more annoying than fun rather early into the game. I still miss the aim choices, but these are possible in the new system; just not implemented (yet?).
  
  
• Squad size: Managing 14+ soldiers in the original requires a lot of patience and effort, but the reward is hardly worth it. As a result, many soldiers are just idling during most missions. XCOM's limit of 6 soldiers makes every soldier count, and the squad is easy to manage. It's very rewarding when I upgrade my squad from 4 to 5 soldiers, and from 5 to 6; it really makes a difference. I've often falsely wished for a larger squad--maybe just 1 or 2 more soldiers--, without realizing that my reason lies in a completely different limiting feature of the game.
  
  
• Visual immersion: I disliked all the action-cam stuff. Fortunately, this can be turned off. I am certain that my first impression was heavily influenced by having played the original, and my first impression was a delusion. Now I play with the full cinematic experience, and it looks and feels great! The only thing missing is those scary shots coming from within the fog-of-war.
  
  
• Survivability: During my recent playthrough of the original (medium difficulty), I noted that armor doesn't really increase the survivability of my soldiers. I find it entirely backwards that my best soldiers are best kept away from combat due to the rank and morale system. Because any soldier can be killed in just a single shot, the consequences are rather significant--such as soldier progression becoming pointless. In XCOM armor matters, and with better armor your soldiers actually have a chance of staying alive. Thus, soldier progression is entirely possible, and in XCOM you want your best soldiers for combat. The original got it all backwards. XCOM got it right!

 

[sherbz]

They don't need to get close. They can still use assault rifles and the upgraded versions to attack a flanked enemy.



Rund&Gun is probably the best starting ability, but lightning reflexes, rapid fire and close combat specialist ar pretty sweet too. You can trigger overwatch and force an enemy to waste his reaction shot before repositioning another trooper, and you can shoot a berserker three times during single turn.

I agree a high level assault soldier is lethal, but I would be less upset at losing one of those than, say, an equally levelled support or sniper soldier. Heavy's and assaults both benefit from having the perks that make them most useful right at the start of the tree. A sniper is fairly useless until you get squad sight. And a support soldier only really becomes useful once they achieve sergeant and can carry 3 medkits/smoke grenades.

If we are trying to decide what soldier is best once fully levelled, then I would probably pick the assault class. As you rightly point out, close combat specialist and rapid fire are utterly lethal, especially on melee units.

 

[coanda]

So I just finished my first game of this, moving on to Classic, hopefully it will be more challenging than normal which after the first 5 or so missions I steamrolled the rest of the game. Some thoughts:

-Ghost armor. What the hell. Who exactly tested this and said "YEP, TOTALLY BALANCED AND NOT AT ALL BROKEN!" Because they need to be fired ASAP. Ghost armor is RIDICULOUS.

-Heavies need a balancing pass I think. Early in the game they are fine but late in the game their marksmanship is terrible, the only reason they are worth bringing along is because every so often a rocket is exactly what you need to save your ass, but in any mission where you don't end up needing the rocket (most of them late game) they are dead weight.

-Assaults maybe need a nerf, an assault with ghost armor is BASICALLY a one man wrecking crew. Got a mob that absolutely, positively cannot be allowed to act next turn? Stealth, run & gun, double crit shot to the face. Done and done.

-Supports are probably the most balanced class in the game skills wise. With every promotion the skill choice actually seems like a choice. The other classes have a lot of "choices" where one is pretty clearly better than the other.

And now a question if anyone knows. When testing people for psi ability, is whether or not they have the gift determined when the character is rolled or is it dependant on current stats? Seems like when I was testing my guys that had some levels (and therefore some Will) I got quite a number of positives, but as soon as I started testing squadies I never saw another psi soldier again. Do I need to wait to test guys until they have leveled up enough to gain some Will or is it all predetermined when they are created and I just got incredibly unlucky with them?

Yeah, Ghost Armor is most definitely broken. I've actually modded my game to cut the defense boost down to 10 instead of 20, and that helps a little but it's still stronger than anything else.

Early game Heavies are the greatest things since sliced bread. Late game heavies... Danger Zone + Suppression is a frighteningly powerful combination, especially because the AI just isn't good at figuring out what to do when suppressed. Bullet Swarm + HEAT makes them a menace to mechanical units. Their weapon does more damage than anything but a short-range Alloy Cannon or a Plasma Sniper Rifle, can be fired twice a turn, and has the best odds of breaking cover in the game. Stick a SCOPE on them to help offset their aim and they become fairly frightening units. I'm not going to argue that late-game Heavies are the best class (that probably goes to Squad Sight snipers or Alloy Cannon Assaults depending on the map), but they definitely hold their own - especially if they have Rocketeer + Danger Zone and you down an alien battleship for a Blaster Launcher. A nice combination to keep in mind is Bullet Swarm heavies with Heavy Plasma firing first, likely destroying cover, then an In The Zone sniper mopping up with a whole series of kills.

I think the issue with Assaults w/ Ghost Armor is more a problem of Ghost Armor than the Assault itself. 4 cloaks per mission, +3 move, 6 HP, and +20 defense is just far too much. 6 HP and 20 defense by itself would be the best option in the game. Sure, highly-promoted assaults are a wrecking crew... but only if you're using them at short ranges. If you do that, you run a higher-than-average risk of losing your highly promoted veteran, so it's a (relatively) high-risk high-reward option. The end-game as a whole could use a difficulty bump, but Assaults strike me as reasonably close to their counterparts.

There's a couple abilities where the choice is clear unless you're deliberately making a specialist for some narrow role - Tactical Sense, Lightning Reflexes, HEAT Ammo, Danger Zone, Squad Sight, Sprinter. All the other choices, I've definitely and not-uncommonly ended up wanting soldiers with each option.

Your odds of finding the gift in a soldier are Will/4. Higher-rank generally means higher-will, so higher rank generally means better odds of being gifted. You are guaranteed that one of the first four (yes, four) soldiers you test will be gifted.

As for when it does the actual check, that's when you put them into the psi lab (not when soldier is created, not when soldier ranks up, not when psi testing ends). Removing a soldier mid-testing and putting them back in will result in a new roll, even on Ironman (although there's no way to know whether you should remove them from testing before it is too late...).

 

[Rubin]

[...]
Your odds of finding the gift in a soldier are Will/4. Higher-rank generally means higher-will, so higher rank generally means better odds of being gifted. You are guaranteed that one of the first four (yes, four) soldiers you test will be gifted.

As for when it does the actual check, that's when you put them into the psi lab (not when soldier is created, not when soldier ranks up, not when psi testing ends). Removing a soldier mid-testing and putting them back in will result in a new roll, even on Ironman (although there's no way to know whether you should remove them from testing before it is too late...).

Nice information and clarification! Thank you

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Yes, that answer is extremely helpful. Now I know that testing rooks is a bad idea, I'll only bother testing people who have got some levels under their belt.

 

[coanda]

Yes, that answer is extremely helpful. Now I know that testing rooks is a bad idea, I'll only bother testing people who have got some levels under their belt.

I'd rephrase as "prioritize" rather than "only bother." More will is better definitely, but it's quite possible to blow through all your veterans in a month of testing and only have one gifted soldier. Keeping up 3-at-a-time testing is going to pretty quickly force you into testing rookies and squaddies, and there's nothing wrong with that. They're cheap; you can hire them en masse, then fire those who fail their testing and rank up those who succeed.

There's also an argument to be made for not rushing to test your non-Iron Will veterans (those you started the game with), because they just don't make very good psions. They'll have typically 70-80 will at Colonel (provided they haven't ever been critically wounded, which would give them -15 will permanently each time). A soldier who's been raised through the ranks with Iron Will affecting every promotion will tend to have 90-100 will, which is far more useful if you ever plan on using Mindfray, Psi Panic, Mind Control, and/or Rift with them. For Mind Control in particular, it's nice to have high-will soldiers. The ability to just swap a couple Muton Elites to your side at the start of a firefight is generally decisive.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

So Iron Will isn't retroactive then? That's pretty stupid, they should probably change that, otherwise you run into a situation where the correct play every time is to abandon your entire team after getting Iron Will and start over from scratch.

 

[vihta]

I really like assaults. The ability to R&G with a shotgun is a godsend sometimes on Impossible when the enemies got more hp. Also Lightning Reflexes is absolutely must because the enemies seem to Overwatch camp just as often as I do if not more often

Currently on my I/I game I like to roll with 2xAssault, 2xHeavy, 1xSupport and 1xSniper which is pretty standard I guess.

The coming DLC looks kinda meh, I guess I'll get it to support this great game but it's not really what I'd like to see them put out.

 

[Rub'Rum]

The coming DLC looks kinda meh, I guess I'll get it to support this great game but it's not really what I'd like to see them put out.

You already supported the game by buying it. Don't support shoddy DLC schemes.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Buying DLC that you don't want "because I want to support the game" is a bad idea. The signal you are sending them by doing that is "I want more of this kind of DLC". If everybody buys this DLC to support the game, the company doesn't know what everyone's motive was, all they see is that this DLC is selling like hotcakes so obviously this is exactly what people want, let's do more of this.

 

[Disgustipated]

Well, you've got to expect in a game with "Normal" and "Classic" difficulty, that "Normal" will be way too easy for anyone who considers themselves a gamer.

I consider myself a gamer, and normal isn't way too easy. The first couple weeks were a little tough. Then again I never played before, and screwed up buying a laboratory with my money.

But my views on tough are different than others. I try to get through a mission without losing anyone, so that's why I wasn't willing to play classic on my first (and only) game and lose most of my squad. Normal is still quite challenging if you try to play without losing anyone to hostile fire.

As for heavies, my very first character (the one that survived the tutorial mission) was a heavy. He had just as many kills as my first sniper at the end (or very close). I didn't like my assaults very much, because their accuracy sucked, and I had to get too close to hit anything.