Uighur_Caesar's Design Discussion Thread

I finally came up with a Fulgencio Batista design that might work, but it's kind of crazy so I'd like to have some opinions.

To put it in short I really like it but some aspects of it seem like they need balancing overall like the second half of the UA and the Mafioso which I think is spanish translation of somebody from the Mafia :p
 
I agree that the Mafioso needs some balancing, and I assume you meant that it was unable to build customs houses rather than manufactories. Otherwise I'm a big fan of the design - particularly the idea that crime provides positive yields in certain circumstance.
 
It does remind me of Leugi's Bolivia, somehow. Different focus though, money instead of music, but still it revolves around generating tourism from WLTKD. Gotta be that. I think the fact that this civ doesn't have ways to easily enable the WLTKDs is what makes me more hesitant, this is actually much more restricted both due to that and the fact that there's no real way to trigger WLTKD unlike in Bolivia, which has the Comparsas.

I think having some modifier for trade routes and open borders like in Cultural Exchange would feel truer to Batista's regime, from my point of view at least. Maybe generating tourism from traded resources could work too.

Reading about the regime I came upon an alternative UA name if you ever need one "Vitrina de América Latina"

I don't like the use of the name Mafioso in this civilization, as I relate them more to Sicily more than anything else, I think "Gangster (at least that's the term I found used more to refer to Batista's underlings) would be more fitting. The unit itself feels like it'd be very busted when used alongside Skyscrappers, Big Ben and Mercantilism. As it'll make buildings cost the bare minimum amount (something like 10% of original cost I think), that used alongside the tourism benefit will break the civilization in half.
So yeah, I'd rethink this unit a bit.

The Distillery is curious, very, very different from the original building. Don't the Buccaneers have a Distillery already? I think a BRAC building replacing the Constabulary or Police Station would be more unique.
Make it do something funky like triggering a WLTKD when catching a spy (is that possible?), or something related to reducing foreign touristic pressure.

I'll come later with more ideas for this, I think this civilization is going somewhere, and you're clearly interested in doing it, but as it is now it's not quite convincing me.
 
To put it in short I really like it but some aspects of it seem like they need balancing overall like the second half of the UA and the Mafioso which I think is spanish translation of somebody from the Mafia :p

I agree that the Mafioso needs some balancing, and I assume you meant that it was unable to build customs houses rather than manufactories. Otherwise I'm a big fan of the design - particularly the idea that crime provides positive yields in certain circumstance.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree the Mafioso is too strong. I'll see how I can tone it down.

It does remind me of Leugi's Bolivia, somehow. Different focus though, money instead of music, but still it revolves around generating tourism from WLTKD. Gotta be that. I think the fact that this civ doesn't have ways to easily enable the WLTKDs is what makes me more hesitant, this is actually much more restricted both due to that and the fact that there's no real way to trigger WLTKD unlike in Bolivia, which has the Comparsas.

I think having some modifier for trade routes and open borders like in Cultural Exchange would feel truer to Batista's regime, from my point of view at least. Maybe generating tourism from traded resources could work too.

Reading about the regime I came upon an alternative UA name if you ever need one "Vitrina de América Latina"

I don't like the use of the name Mafioso in this civilization, as I relate them more to Sicily more than anything else, I think "Gangster (at least that's the term I found used more to refer to Batista's underlings) would be more fitting. The unit itself feels like it'd be very busted when used alongside Skyscrappers, Big Ben and Mercantilism. As it'll make buildings cost the bare minimum amount (something like 10% of original cost I think), that used alongside the tourism benefit will break the civilization in half.
So yeah, I'd rethink this unit a bit.

The Distillery is curious, very, very different from the original building. Don't the Buccaneers have a Distillery already? I think a BRAC building replacing the Constabulary or Police Station would be more unique.
Make it do something funky like triggering a WLTKD when catching a spy (is that possible?), or something related to reducing foreign touristic pressure.

I'll come later with more ideas for this, I think this civilization is going somewhere, and you're clearly interested in doing it, but as it is now it's not quite convincing me.

I was originally thinking of having the UA have something to do with the capital getting gold and culture from trading plantation resources, but my ideas were going all around the places so I couldn't find a place to put it.

On the Mafioso, I just quite like the word Mafioso so I used it rather than gangster or something possibly more appropriate. It is too strong, but I just find unique great people kind of uninteresting so I was trying to come up with something really different. I was originally considering having some of the building purchasing stuff in the UA and perhaps only tie it to the capital, but I decided to move it over to the UU as I tend to struggle with anything interesting for UGPs.

The Bucs have a Rum Distillery UI, rather than a Distillery UB. I wanted their to be some kind of gold building in this civ but I wasn't quite sure which. My first thought was a casino, but I didn't want to extend the gold to tourism conversion to all cities as I just don't feel right doing so for Batista. My next thought was either a rum distillery or a cigar factory since they're two recognizable Cuban products and would fit with that original plantation idea I had. I wasn't exactly sure where to put them, and I also wasn't quite feeling them either since they could only reasonably improve the yields of one resource, and in the case of the cigars, tobacco isn't even in the base game. I also considered allowing them to give unique luxuries, but rum is already used in the bucs mod and tobacco is used in more luxuries (a cigars luxury would work instead I guess). I ultimately went with the distillery as it the resource was already in game. I didn't include the rum luxury since the bucs have it and I gave the Mafioso the ability to steal luxuries, which I thought would fill the void for acquiring luxuries for your capitals WLTKD.

On alternative UBs, I use the BRAC would be make sense, but I personally don't like it unless there's enough of the other gold stuff going on. The WLTKD upon capturing a spy if impossible as far as I know. Funny how you mention resisting foreign influence, I was considering converting the highest foreign influence on you into gold somewhere originally to reflect American interests in Cuba and the connections Batista had. I couldn't find anywhere to put it, but I was at one point considering a generically named Compañia Extranjera or something like that to represent American businesses in Cuba that would have had that effect. The aforementioned casino could have worked, but again, I personally don't like extending that tourism boost to non-capital cities. I thought at one point about giving the Mafioso something related to the casino, perhaps being able to build it in cities, but I thought that was lame and boring.

Anyway, I ultimately agree that there's something lacking right now. I kind of want this civ to have that capital vs rest of the country divide that was actually present during Batista's era. I want the capital to be rich and glamorous while the rest of the country is more agriculturally in a way and provides the capital with yields. I also want to add in that corruption somehow because that's such an important feature of Batista's era it has to be included. Looking forward to any other ideas you might have for this.
 
Hm... let's try to coalesce everything into something coherent:

Cuba - Fulgencio Batista
UA: Vitrina de Latinoamérica - The Capital gains a workable copy of plantation resources worked by other cities and half the culture output of civilizations with shared Embassies. (this culture contributes to Hotel Tourism)
UU: Auténtico - Replaces Great War Infantry. Much weaker than Great War Infantry and suffers a penalty for experience gain, but can buy promotions with gold. Enemy units ending their turn near an Auténtico generate gold.
UB BRAC - Replaces Police Station. Aside from normal Police Station features. The BRAC generates gold from touristic pressure over your civilization. (and all crime produces positive yields with CID).


Alright, tried to make something interesting out of this while staying true to the spirit of what you were trying to build, a tourism civilization centered on the Capital.

I must admit that I'm not completly sure if what I wrote in the UA is possible but I think it is, given what I've seen in other civilization mods. Anyways, this is basically just a different interpretation of what you were going for in the first place, plantations in your outlying cities benefitting the Capital and tourism. I put heavier emphasis on foreign influence since dependency on the USA was kind of an important aspect of Batista's regime, and this way you won't have ugly problems with ridiculous generation of Tourism in the early game.

The Auténticos are based on the hilariously corrupt military of Batista's time, where most every professional officer was fired and Batista promoted basically whoever he pleased without regards for any actual competence, while also being so brutal against the populace at large that basically they did more to bring down Batista's regime than the actual opponents!

Normally an unit replacement having so many penalties is a terrible idea, but given than most people use GWI just as a stepping stone to instantly upgrade to Infantry, I think this is actually rather nifty, as you can purchase a bunch of promotions for your unit along the way without the need to actually use it in combat. Hey, flavorful!

The BRAC is here mostly to round out the civilization, some extra gold late game never comes bad, though it may be counterintuitive in a tourism based faction, it allows you to get back on your feet from greater touristic pressure easily, at least in theory.
 
I quite like this synthesis, although I do have a few points to make. First, what exactly do you mean by the first part of the UA? Like if you have cotton in Santiago de Cuba you'll get a source of Cotton in Havana? I'm a little confused as to what it would look like exactly. I love your idea for the UU though. Looks very appropriate, although I don't like the name too much since the Autenticos weren't Batista's party. Maybe they could be called Guatacónes which is Cuban for kiss-asses. It would make sense given both real life and the design. The BRAC fits nicely with the other stuff as well. Thanks for the ideas!
 
What you described, yeah, My idea is that the capital would get some magical slot that could be worked for the same yields that the original plantation gave, but I can see how unpractical/impossible that may turn to be. So maybe just giving the yields of the plantations in the capital could do the trick.

Good point on the UU, Guatacones is a better name than Auténticos, though bear in mind that, given spanish grammar rules, Guatacones shouldn't have an accent. Nitpicky, I know.
 
I'll check which of the two methods is easier and more practical but either will work really. And thanks for the spell check lol. I had it as singular originally but then I put it as plural and forgot. I'm liking the way Batista is gonna look. All the other mob related stuff can still be included by E&D and I'm planning on having an event for choosing whether or not to release some political prisoners. History would have been so different had he chosen not to do that.
 
I had an idea for Batista...

Republic of Cuba(Fulgencio Batista)
UA: Palace of the Underworld
Gain a sum of :tourism: tourism with all known civs when you complete a plantation, and receive +1 :c5gold: gold in the :c5capital: capital for each copy of plantation resource traded to another civilizations. The :c5capital: capital's tile :c5gold: gold output contributes to :c5production: production.

UB: Casino
Replaces stock exchange. Instead of the usual bonus, it grants +1 :c5gold: gold and +1 :c5culture: culture from plantations and +1 :tourism: tourism for each embassy in your :c5capital: capital (max +4). Additionally, it causes any tourism buildings to generate :c5gold: gold equal to their maintenance.

UU: Mafioso
Replaces great merchant. Rather than building custom houses, it may be consumed to create a unique plantation with the heroin or Cocaine resources, which will grant :c5gold: gold equal to their :c5happy: happiness output. If consumed for a trade mission, it will grant you +1 :c5influence: influence with the target for each plantation you have.
 
Ok well I've been thinking of a design for Jordan lately and can't seem to come up with anything definitely, so I'm just gonna throw my stream of consciousness out here and see if anyone can assist.

Alright, so I have two general themes that I'm thinking would be good for Jordan: something with Culture/Tourism from deserts/antiquity sites/landmarks and diplomacy.

Jordan has some cool touristic stuff like Petra and Wadi Rum so I think it would make sense to give them something regarding culture from certain tile types. However, straight up culture from deserts or certain types of deserts would be kind of lame so I was thinking of some regarding maybe antiquity sites or landmarks. I was considering that antiquity sites on deserts would always be visible, but that would end up being a weaker and more situational Beothuk so that wouldn't be great. Maybe landmarks/and or antiquity sites could be built/appear earlier due to something? Idk. My first thought was upon building a wonder, but I don't particularly like that idea. Maybe something with them possibly appearing on deserts? Anyway, I was considering some kind of UB, probably a Museum improvement, that would provide benefits from this culture from tiles. My first thought was to provide a free archaeologist upon building the UB and that it converts 100% of culture from worked tiles to tourism. My main problem with it is what would it be called? Heritage Site is probably too generic, but I can't think of anything that could possibly work.

Diplomacy also sounds like something Jordan should have in their design since they're quite nice relatively speaking in the region. They have an active presence in UN peacekeeping missions, accept a lot of refugees, and recognize Israel. Something with boosting city state relations sounds sensible to me. My first thought was a Field Hospital UI that would provide food (health with CID) and science and heals friendly units landing on the tile. It could also be built in city state territory, either providing influence for every turn worked or raise resting point depending on how many field hospitals are present. It could also provide an immediate boost in influence if the city state uses it to heal its units as suggested by Hoop Thrower. I think this UI sounds good and I have a model in mind for it already, but I'm not sure how to incorporate this into the civ. Having a UB and UI is unprecedented I believe and I'm not sure how well that would actually work out. My thought was to include a UU, called either a Peacekeeper or Joint Special Op (the latter being more specifically Jordanian, but also long), that could either be standalone or an earlier Marine that could build it. It would also receive a bonus when fighting alongside other friendly civs/city states. My main problem here would be its placement on the tech tree. I have no clue when to make it buildable so that it would still be relevant. It would probably also be weird since then there would essentially be a UB, UI, and UU in one design, albeit in a very odd manner. The UU and UI could be separated as well, just not sure what to do with the UU or UA at that point.

So yeah, that's my convoluted thought process. If there's any ideas on how to make any of that crap work together, or any other ideas that work, please let me know.
 
Had this

Kingdom of Jordan(Abdullah II)
UA: Hospital State
When a city bordering you is a conquered, you may gain some of the :c5citizen: population it lost or receive a refugee camp inside your territory. May enter the territory of civs that have an active :c5war: war or a peace treaty as long as you never fought with them, which may grant you a small positive diplomatic modifier or prevent :c5influence: influence lose.

UI: Field Hospital
Unlocked at Penicillin. May be built in the territory of city states or near conquered cities. The field hospital increases :c5influence: influence resting point by +1, in addition to granting a sum of :c5influence: influence when first built in the territory of the city state. Whenever a health\ growth building is completed in new of your cities, each field hospital grants a small amount of :tourism: tourism with known give.
 
I was originally thinking of that whole refugee thing, but I decided against it since you have no control over it. I'll include it through E&D instead. Second half of the UA is interesting, although I'm not sure how codeable it is. The UI looks kind of weak though. Don't you think Penicillin is really late for UI? Especially since there won't be a whole lot of health or food buildings left to build at that point. The +1 to resting point also seems low for a UI that late. I'm thinking it might work better at either education or biology.
 
This is probably the most convoluted design I've ever designed, but I love it:

Kingdom of Jordan

Leader: Abdullah II

UA: Hashemite Humanitarianism: Gain :c5culture: Culture from units ending their turn or performing actions* in foreign territory. +10% Worker speed for every DOF or City State ally and gain a free worker upon signing open borders (max +50%).

UU: Joint Special Op/Peacekeeper: Unique standalone unit available upon the creation of the World Congress. :c5strength: Strength varies by era and earns scout promotions. Can enter the territory of every civ, but takes attrition if they don't allow open borders. May be expended to build Field Hospitals or rescue refugees**. Can paradrop after Radar.

UI: Field Hospital: Unlocked at Education and can also be built in foreign territory. +2 :c5food: Food and +1 :c5science: Science, with an additional +1 :c5food: Food after Biology and another +1 :c5science: Science after Penicillin (Health instead of food with CID). Every Field Hospital in a city state's territory raises your :c5influence: Influence resting point by 5. Friendly units ending their turn on this tile heal 10 HP.

*Building improvements, great people missions, spreading religion, fighting enemies, etc.

**May only be performed when adjacent to a conquered city and only once per city. Has a chance to extract a :c5citizen: Citizen from that city, which goes to your empire. Improves relations with the original owner if successful. Damages relations with the current owner if a failure.
 
Yeah, that design looks really sweet - the first part of the UA reminds me a bit of Mao's ability to generate culture whilst in enemy territory but it's obviously different enough for this not to be an issue. I guess you could cover the whole tourism/antiquity angle through Events and Decisions, if you still wanted to cover them.

Over all, I'm a big fan of it - should be a really fun civ to play.

In reference to your earlier post, a UB/UI combo is not without precedent - MC's Nazca has such UCs, unless you meant without Firaxis precedent. In which case I retract my statement :p
 
So I just posted this design over on design challenge 6, but I want some feedback because I'm considering actually doing this civ because I found them rather interesting:

Ngāpuhi

Leader: Hongi Hika

UA: Musket Wars: Receive a copy of any land unit a city you're trading with produces, even if it is unique or you lack the tech. Units upgrade for 20% less :c5gold: Gold, further reduced by 10% for every DOF (max 50% total).

UU: Taua Pū: Replaces Musketman. All your Longswordsmen and Pikemen instantly upgrade into Taua Pū upon researching Gunpowder. Reduces the :c5strength: Combat Strength of adjacent enemy units by 15% if they are from before the Renaissance era.

UB: Mission House: Replaces the Temple but doesn't require a Shrine. Upon being built, converts this city's population to the religion of the nearest friendly city following a religion, gaining :c5science: Science based on how many techs they have. +25% :trade: Trade range and +2 :c5gold: Gold for every incoming trade routes and +1 :c5gold: Gold for the sender.

For starters, the UA needs a better name, I couldn't think of anything so I just put Musket Wars because it was the focus of the design. Anyway, the Ngapuhi were the first Maori iwi (tribe) to get muskets from the English so I wanted to make a war civ that benefited more trade and also had some science bonuses. I particularly like the first half of the UA, although the second half feels a bit weaker, but still fits the advancement focus. Also, not sure if the free unit should be limited to civs you're sending a trade route too, or also include cities sending routes to you.

The UU is just a reference to musket warfare, I made up the name by combining Taua which means army and Pu which means musket. wanted it to have an advantage over less advanced units, which I think it accomplishes well although I'd be open to new options. The instant upgrade should help it become useful immediately, although I'm not sure if something cooler could be done. I was originally thinking of it providing science whenever it got a promotion, but I didn't want both components to provide science and I felt like the UU should take advantage of advancement, not accelerate it.

So I thought the UB would be a good place to add science bonuses and reference more trade. It doesn't require a shrine and provides you with another civ's religion because I don't expect you to have a cultural/religious focus with this civ, so instantly providing you with a religion sounded like a good idea alongside the science boost. It also has trade bonuses to help you send and receive trade routes.
 
Well, as you may have read, I was thinking on doing a similar design, personally I was thinking on a Tupara Musket UU, which is the weapon they used the most. I actually think Tupara is a word the Maori invented for those double-barrelled muskets.

Anyways, my idea was for them to have less overall damage but come from the get go with the promotion that gives 2 attacks, because, well, double barrelled. However I feared the unit would had been a little bit simplistic, not to mention you stepped in with a better idea anyways so I said... eh, sod it. So there, some food for thought.
 
Hi! I don't know you work on the Delhi Sultanate or not, but IMO a Delhi Sultanate civ would be great. (India really deserves more leaders and/or civilizations) Although very hard to imagine Alauddin's (and other Delhi Sultans) historically accurate appearence, because there aren't miniatures before the 1450's from the Delhi Sultanate. Both portraits and costumes' making are difficult, as there aren't real portraits, only imagined portraits (and Alauddin at least has imagined portraits, most of Delhi Sultans have nothing). I don't know it can help, but I saved the 1450's miniatures from the Delhi Sultanate to my Pinterest (from different museums' websites), because I also used them, and I think maybe these can be helpful for you too - if you plan to create the Delhi Sultanate civ. https://hu.pinterest.com/beresreni1990/delhi-sultanate-1206-1526/
I think 1200's arabic miniatures (Maqama of al-Hariri), 1300's persian (Ilkhanate) minatures (Jami al-Tawarikh and the Great Mongol/Ilkhanid Shahnama) can be also helpful.
A few pages from Jami al-Tawarikh: http://warfare.ga/Persia/14/Jami_al-Tawarikh-1305-14.htm
Alauddin Khilji's (imagined) portrait: https://thewire.in/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/393px-Sultan-Allahudeen-Gherzai-1.jpg
 
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